Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Threefists 03-12-08, 10:06 AM	Now, I've opened this thread so I don't derail the other DR thread going on, and because I have a distinct 'feeling' that the method our Group(s) have been using is not CORE standard... For example, we'll use a Human Barbarian, with the full 20 levels, and the Armor Specialization feat from PHB II, using a Adamantium Breastplate with Susalian Chainweave as the chosen armor. Said Human Barbarian has DR 5/- at level 20 from Barbarian Levels, 4/- from the Adamantium Breastplate and 3/piercing. Now, we've always considered that the highest, or best, DR takes precedence first, then the 2nd best/highest, then the 3rd and so on and so forth. If said Human Barbarian was biten by a Dire Bear (we'll assume maximum damage, but not a critical, for the example), the Human Barbarian suffers 21 Piercing/Slashing/Bludgeoning damage from the bite. Barbarian DR reduces this to 16 P/S/B damage, then the Breastplate DR reduces this to 12 P/S/B damage. The susalian chainweave cannot prevent piercing damage, so the Barbarian takes 12 damage. Is that the correct method? I have heard that DR of the same 'type, such as a Barbarian's DR and Adamantine's DR, 'stack', as such. Under such a ruling, the Barbarian would have DR 9/- and DR 3/Piercing. Or does DR function in that only one single DR would actually come into effect, ie the Barbarian would have to chose between using his 'natural' Barbarian DR or the Breastplate's DR. This produces other questions, such as how the DR of the Susalian Chainweave interacts with the natural DR of the Breastplate, and how the DR/Magic enchantment from the Dungeom Master's Guide would also interact with the existing DR abilities. If anyone knows how this is solved CORE, I'd love to hear it. I believe that the method we use (1st/2nd/3rd/ect) is the 'best' method, but it may not be the CORE method.
runestar 03-12-08, 10:24 AM	Dr from multiple sources do not stack, you simply use the best of them all (but you do get to choose which one to apply). In your case, you effectively have only dr5/-. When you are hit, only 5 damage is reduced, the dr granted from your breastplate is basically moot.
Cartigan 03-12-08, 11:23 AM	Dr from multiple sources do not stack, you simply use the best of them all (but you do get to choose which one to apply). In your case, you effectively have only dr5/-. When you are hit, only 5 damage is reduced, the dr granted from your breastplate is basically moot. And since the DR is /--, it also overrides the 3/piercing from the chain weave. I believe.
Vegepygmy 03-12-08, 12:18 PM	And since the DR is /--, it also overrides the 3/piercing from the chain weave. I believe.The type of DR has nothing to do with it. For example, if you have DR 1/- and DR 3/piercing, the DR 1/- doesn't "override" the DR 3/piercing just because it's DR /-. As Runestar said, you simply use the best DR, whichever that is. So if you are hit with 10 points of piercing damage, you apply the DR 1/- (because the DR 3/piercing doesn't help you at all). If you get hit with 10 points of bludgeoning damage, you apply the DR 3/piercing and ignore the DR 1/- (because it's better to have 3 points absorbed rather than 1). It's as simple as that.
Rymosrac 03-12-08, 12:22 PM	You know, I'm considering the ramifications of houseruling that all DR that applies to an attack should stack. DR has a hard enough time scaling with level as-is. How bad could it get? Possibly pretty bad, which is why I'm still looking into it.
DESC 03-12-08, 12:34 PM	Dr from multiple sources do not stack, you simply use the best of them all (but you do get to choose which one to apply). In your case, you effectively have only dr5/-. When you are hit, only 5 damage is reduced, the dr granted from your breastplate is basically moot. This is not always the case. Most of the DR/-- that I have seen say that they stack, however, I think that if they do not state that they stack, then they don't, but many times they do. Also, isn't the DR for an Adamantium Breastplate DR 3/--?
Vegepygmy 03-12-08, 02:02 PM	Most of the DR/-- that I have seen say that they stack...Give us the cites, because I don't believe you. (I believe you believe it, but I don't believe they say it.) Also, isn't the DR for an Adamantium Breastplate DR 3/--?No, it's DR 2/- (DMG pages 219 and 283). And there's no such thing in D&D as "adamantium." It's adamantine.
DESC 03-12-08, 02:46 PM	well, the ones that I am dealing with right now are the 5th level ability of the Ironsoul forgemaster in Magic of Incarnum, which specifically says that it stacks with other DR/--. Also, the DR/-- gained from having multiple Earth grafts from Magic of Eberron. assuming I remember correctly the the DR for adamantine armors is light - 1 medium - 2 heavy - 3
RavenDrake 03-12-08, 04:28 PM	DESC: The Ironsoul Forgemaster's Armour Bond ability says that the DR/- gained by the ability stacks with any DR/- inherent in the ARMOUR only, effectively enhanceing any DR/- the armour already posses. It does not stack with DR/- from any other source, such as barbarian levels. The Earth Grafts, however, do state that they stack with "any other DR of the same kind". That, however, is a serious exception to the rule, rather than the norm, especially since the rules point out "If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation." (DMG, pg 292). An effect must explicitly state that fact for it to be true.
Threefists 03-12-08, 07:20 PM	Ack, we've been using 'our' method for years.....dunno how I'm gonna break this to the guys. Thanks all, it's been a great help. Wait, on a tangent perhaps, but all of a sudden the Armor Specilization Feat and a suit of Heavy Adamantine Armor suddenly makes the Barbarian's hard-won DR seem like....crap. BASTARDS! THOKK SMASH! Then again the humble Fighter Class deals with enough smite as it is so I'll just reserve the barbarian rage for any other melee class that picks this up :embarrass
Vegepygmy 03-12-08, 08:16 PM	Wait, on a tangent perhaps, but all of a sudden the Armor Specilization Feat and a suit of Heavy Adamantine Armor suddenly makes the Barbarian's hard-won DR seem like....crap. BASTARDS! THOKK SMASH!It's an extremely common house rule to allow a barbarian's DR to stack with the DR granted by adamantine armor. The D&D police will not come to your home and arrest you if you play that way. (I promise.) Go ahead and stick with "your" method if you like. It won't hurt anything.
Cartigan 03-12-08, 10:02 PM	The type of DR has nothing to do with it. For example, if you have DR 1/- and DR 3/piercing, the DR 1/- doesn't "override" the DR 3/piercing just because it's DR /-. I mean because it is a higher DR and because it is all encompassing. If it was 5/bludgeoning and 3/piercing they would both apply individually, but 5 DR/-- overrides everything 5 and lower.
StevenO 03-13-08, 12:18 AM	You know, I'm considering the ramifications of houseruling that all DR that applies to an attack should stack. DR has a hard enough time scaling with level as-is. How bad could it get? Possibly pretty bad, which is why I'm still looking into it. If you rule that all DR applies then you'd better make sure you break up all of those "AND" type DRs. Instead of only losing 15 damage of you strikes against a Balor because you don't have a good and cold iron weapon you should take off 30. DR 15/good and cold iron is the exact same a having DR 15/good and DR 15/cold iron. The CORE ruling is you use the highest DR that applies and ignore the rest. The only DR I even consider letting stack is DR/- that comes from class/character abilities. To me an ex-Barbarian/Dwarven Defender should benefit from the DR/- provided by both classes. I wouldn't allow the DR/- from spells or armor to stack with that however as I envision those extra DRs as protecting areas of vulnerability the character's innate DR already protect.
runestar 03-13-08, 01:03 AM	You know, I'm considering the ramifications of houseruling that all DR that applies to an attack should stack. DR has a hard enough time scaling with level as-is. How bad could it get? Possibly pretty bad, which is why I'm still looking into it. The first lesson one would learn in dnd is the pitfalls of abusive stacking. All those misc minor bonuses seem harmless on their own, but put enough together... I think the key problem here is where the line should be drawn. For example, stoneskin grants dr10/adamantine. Barb gets dr5/- at lv19. There is an armour property that can grant dr10/magic (and you will be amazed by how many enemies cannot overcome this). Say you have a whole load of other abilities/spell effects which grant dr as well. Those numbers can add up very quickly, maybe to the extent of making him nigh impervious to attacks. It is easy to say "It is fine so long as it is not broken", but even harder to define or even recognize just what "broken" entails.:P
DESC 03-13-08, 01:21 AM	well, the way that my GM always overcame that problem, wasn't by trying to stop us from "cooking" the rules to make uber powerful characters, he would just cook the rules right back, or throw something at us that wasn't our specialty. For example, we had characters that could take pretty much anything, they were amazing, like I could do 326 damage with one hit, assuming I rolled max on everything, average damage was usually around 80-90. So, he threw a troll at us, and none of us rolled high enough on knowledge species to know that you needed to use fire to hurt it, so we were pounding away on the thing for a while until one of us realized that we needed fire damage. Another example, most characters do not put many ranks into swim, so throw the characters into water. The GM just has to outsmart the players, which is fun.
narack 03-13-08, 07:40 AM	DR can be stated 2 different ways for example it could say: 10/Adamantium or Silver = either of those 2 material 10/adamantium and 10/silver = you need both to bypass completely. as a character you gain them separately most of the time (unless your race has already a double DR stated) so having like 3/- and 10/silver mean that unless it's a spell he need a silver weapon or else his damage will be reduce by 10 (always highest DR apply) if he got silver weapon, luckily you got a DR/- which is never bypass by weapons so it would reduce by 3 the damage, so you are sure that your DR will reduce by 3 OR 10 the damage.
Brownie 03-13-08, 08:49 AM	10/adamantium and 10/silver = you need both to bypass completely. That's a bad example, because I don't think you can have both of those on the same weapon. :P 10/adamantine and 10/slashing is a better example.
runestar 03-13-08, 09:22 AM	That's a bad example, because I don't think you can have both of those on the same weapon. :P 10/adamantine and 10/slashing is a better example. You can accomplish anything with enough splatbooks. CA has a pair of gloves which makes any weapon you wield be treated as magic silver for purposes of damage reduction.:)
Cartigan 03-13-08, 01:07 PM	You can accomplish anything with enough splatbooks. CA has a pair of gloves which makes any weapon you wield be treated as magic silver for purposes of damage reduction.:) Magic and silver are not mutually exclusive to begin with :rolleyes:
Vegepygmy 03-13-08, 03:37 PM	Magic and silver are not mutually exclusive to begin with :rolleyes:I think you missed his point entirely.
runestar 03-13-08, 07:34 PM	Magic and silver are not mutually exclusive to begin with :rolleyes: The point was to wield an adamantine weapon with the gloves, thus letting you overcome dr/magic, silver and adamantine simultaneously.:P