Damage Stacking Against DR Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Damage Stacking Against DR Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Intoxicatious
01-29-08, 04:03 AM If a Rogue has a +1 Frost Dagger, and he is sneak attacking (2d6), but the enemy has a DR 5, does the damage stack?

e.g.

DAMAGE:
1d4 dagger
1d6 frost
2d6 sneak attack

Are all of the rolls added together and then the DR takes effect, or does the DR come into effect for each die individually?
Wharin
01-29-08, 04:42 AM Though I think "stacking" is the wrong way to put it, you do indeed add up all the damage... More specifically you add the Sneak Attack and (half?) your STR bonus (for a rogue is often 0) to your weapon damage (for a dagger that would be 1d4).

That Cold damage actually doesnt ever even look at DR. So unless he has Cold Resistance, even if he had DR 100/-, that cold damage would still bite him.

So while its not quite as simple as you put it, in this specific scenario, yes, all that damage would "stack".

Note that if your knife is poisoned, and the damage you roll from the knife and SA and STR (but not the Frost part) doesn't beat his DR, that poison doesn't go through.*

*Unless I am wrong, but I am sure I read that somewhere.
Intoxicatious
01-29-08, 04:54 AM Why were you guessing half of STR to damage?
zeratulcraft
01-29-08, 05:01 AM Physical damage, that is, your dagger's base damage in addition to it's + value and any strength bonus that applies as well as your Sneak Attack are the only things in there that are affected by Damage Reduction. The only way to lower the cold damage is via Resistance or Immunity, it is not subject to DR or any form.
Asurya
01-29-08, 07:23 AM I would say so too zeratulcraft, but this thread raise a question, as SA does [untyped] damage, it does not get through any king of DR, right?

imagine a target with DR10/bludgeoning (and which is not an undead, for the sake of my argument ;)) SAed by a morningstar, the weapond damage would bypass the DR (along with the Str bonus IIRC) but the extra damage from SA would have to over 10 to begin adding to the actual dmage, no?
BugHunter
01-29-08, 09:15 AM Imagine a target with DR10/bludgeoning (and which is not an undead, for the sake of my argument ;)) SAed by a morningstar, the weapond damage would bypass the DR (along with the Str bonus IIRC) but the extra damage from SA would have to over 10 to begin adding to the actual dmage, no?

Incorrect the SA damage is added to the weapon damage and then the DR is applied to the total.
Wharin
01-29-08, 12:42 PM Why were you guessing half of STR to damage?

It wasn't so much a guess as it was meant as a place holder for the (likely?) possibility that the dagger was used in the off-hand, in which case, he'd only add half that STR bonus.
CryoSilver
01-29-08, 12:52 PM I would say so too zeratulcraft, but this thread raise a question, as SA does [untyped] damage, it does not get through any king of DR, right?

imagine a target with DR10/bludgeoning (and which is not an undead, for the sake of my argument ;)) SAed by a morningstar, the weapond damage would bypass the DR (along with the Str bonus IIRC) but the extra damage from SA would have to over 10 to begin adding to the actual dmage, no?

False. Sneak Attack damage is of the same type as the attack being used to deliver it. Sneak attacking with a light mace is all bludgeoning damage. Sneak attacking with Inflict Minor Wounds is all negative energy damage. Sneak Attacking with Enervation is 1d4 negative levels + xd6 negative energy sneak attack damage.
Intoxicatious
01-29-08, 02:42 PM OK, I think I got it, guys.

- Sneak Attack is added to the weapon damage before DR, or anything.
- Cold damage is something entirely different, and is affected by a resistance or immunity.
JamesMaissen
01-30-08, 10:49 PM OK, I think I got it, guys.

- Sneak Attack is added to the weapon damage before DR, or anything.
- Cold damage is something entirely different, and is affected by a resistance or immunity.

Yep. The amusing part is where you have a small rogue that is so weak that a x3 crit for him will cause him to do LESS damage than normal.

To whit: A 4 str halfling with a dagger does 1d3-3 damage with a minimum of 1 point of damage. When making a sneak attack it's 1d3-3+xd6 with a minimum of 1 point of damage (and if he's only got a few sneak dice it could just be 1). Now getting a x3 crit with it (punching dagger) would do 3d3-9+xd6 damage, which 8/9 times will be less damage than if the critical did not confirm!

Funny eh?

-James
SkipSandwich
02-01-08, 09:21 AM Yep. The amusing part is where you have a small rogue that is so weak that a x3 crit for him will cause him to do LESS damage than normal.

To whit: A 4 str halfling with a dagger does 1d3-3 damage with a minimum of 1 point of damage. When making a sneak attack it's 1d3-3+xd6 with a minimum of 1 point of damage (and if he's only got a few sneak dice it could just be 1). Now getting a x3 crit with it (punching dagger) would do 3d3-9+xd6 damage, which 8/9 times will be less damage than if the critical did not confirm!

Funny eh?

-James

personally, i'd rule that you'd add the sneak attack damage AFTER calculating the damage from the normal attack roll, but that's just me, its still funny to think about in any case.
zeratulcraft
02-05-08, 04:28 AM Yep. The amusing part is where you have a small rogue that is so weak that a x3 crit for him will cause him to do LESS damage than normal.

To whit: A 4 str halfling with a dagger does 1d3-3 damage with a minimum of 1 point of damage. When making a sneak attack it's 1d3-3+xd6 with a minimum of 1 point of damage (and if he's only got a few sneak dice it could just be 1). Now getting a x3 crit with it (punching dagger) would do 3d3-9+xd6 damage, which 8/9 times will be less damage than if the critical did not confirm!

Funny eh?

-James

That's one of the reasons my group uses straight multipliers, rather than rerolling.

So it would be 1d3-3 x3, for a minimum and maximum of 3 damage.
JamesMaissen
02-05-08, 06:21 AM That's one of the reasons my group uses straight multipliers, rather than rerolling.

So it would be 1d3-3 x3, for a minimum and maximum of 3 damage.

Umm.. wouldn't it be a minimum and maximum of 1?

If you roll a 1 that gives you a -2, times 3 is -6 then minimum damage is 1.
If you roll a 3 that gives you a 0, times 3 is still 0 then minimum damage is 1.

The point being that the minimum 1 damage is applied last... even after sneak attack.

-James
zeratulcraft
02-05-08, 05:07 PM Umm.. wouldn't it be a minimum and maximum of 1?

If you roll a 1 that gives you a -2, times 3 is -6 then minimum damage is 1.
If you roll a 3 that gives you a 0, times 3 is still 0 then minimum damage is 1.

The point being that the minimum 1 damage is applied last... even after sneak attack.

-James

Nah, damage calculations first. 1d3-3 = minimum 1, multiplied x3, add extra dice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Intoxicatious 01-29-08, 04:03 AM	If a Rogue has a +1 Frost Dagger, and he is sneak attacking (2d6), but the enemy has a DR 5, does the damage stack? e.g. DAMAGE: 1d4 dagger 1d6 frost 2d6 sneak attack Are all of the rolls added together and then the DR takes effect, or does the DR come into effect for each die individually?
Wharin 01-29-08, 04:42 AM	Though I think "stacking" is the wrong way to put it, you do indeed add up all the damage... More specifically you add the Sneak Attack and (half?) your STR bonus (for a rogue is often 0) to your weapon damage (for a dagger that would be 1d4). That Cold damage actually doesnt ever even look at DR. So unless he has Cold Resistance, even if he had DR 100/-, that cold damage would still bite him. So while its not quite as simple as you put it, in this specific scenario, yes, all that damage would "stack". Note that if your knife is poisoned, and the damage you roll from the knife and SA and STR (but not the Frost part) doesn't beat his DR, that poison doesn't go through.* *Unless I am wrong, but I am sure I read that somewhere.
Intoxicatious 01-29-08, 04:54 AM	Why were you guessing half of STR to damage?
zeratulcraft 01-29-08, 05:01 AM	Physical damage, that is, your dagger's base damage in addition to it's + value and any strength bonus that applies as well as your Sneak Attack are the only things in there that are affected by Damage Reduction. The only way to lower the cold damage is via Resistance or Immunity, it is not subject to DR or any form.
Asurya 01-29-08, 07:23 AM	I would say so too zeratulcraft, but this thread raise a question, as SA does [untyped] damage, it does not get through any king of DR, right? imagine a target with DR10/bludgeoning (and which is not an undead, for the sake of my argument ;)) SAed by a morningstar, the weapond damage would bypass the DR (along with the Str bonus IIRC) but the extra damage from SA would have to over 10 to begin adding to the actual dmage, no?
BugHunter 01-29-08, 09:15 AM	Imagine a target with DR10/bludgeoning (and which is not an undead, for the sake of my argument ;)) SAed by a morningstar, the weapond damage would bypass the DR (along with the Str bonus IIRC) but the extra damage from SA would have to over 10 to begin adding to the actual dmage, no? Incorrect the SA damage is added to the weapon damage and then the DR is applied to the total.
Wharin 01-29-08, 12:42 PM	Why were you guessing half of STR to damage? It wasn't so much a guess as it was meant as a place holder for the (likely?) possibility that the dagger was used in the off-hand, in which case, he'd only add half that STR bonus.
CryoSilver 01-29-08, 12:52 PM	I would say so too zeratulcraft, but this thread raise a question, as SA does [untyped] damage, it does not get through any king of DR, right? imagine a target with DR10/bludgeoning (and which is not an undead, for the sake of my argument ;)) SAed by a morningstar, the weapond damage would bypass the DR (along with the Str bonus IIRC) but the extra damage from SA would have to over 10 to begin adding to the actual dmage, no? False. Sneak Attack damage is of the same type as the attack being used to deliver it. Sneak attacking with a light mace is all bludgeoning damage. Sneak attacking with Inflict Minor Wounds is all negative energy damage. Sneak Attacking with Enervation is 1d4 negative levels + xd6 negative energy sneak attack damage.
Intoxicatious 01-29-08, 02:42 PM	OK, I think I got it, guys. - Sneak Attack is added to the weapon damage before DR, or anything. - Cold damage is something entirely different, and is affected by a resistance or immunity.
JamesMaissen 01-30-08, 10:49 PM	OK, I think I got it, guys. - Sneak Attack is added to the weapon damage before DR, or anything. - Cold damage is something entirely different, and is affected by a resistance or immunity. Yep. The amusing part is where you have a small rogue that is so weak that a x3 crit for him will cause him to do LESS damage than normal. To whit: A 4 str halfling with a dagger does 1d3-3 damage with a minimum of 1 point of damage. When making a sneak attack it's 1d3-3+xd6 with a minimum of 1 point of damage (and if he's only got a few sneak dice it could just be 1). Now getting a x3 crit with it (punching dagger) would do 3d3-9+xd6 damage, which 8/9 times will be less damage than if the critical did not confirm! Funny eh? -James
SkipSandwich 02-01-08, 09:21 AM	Yep. The amusing part is where you have a small rogue that is so weak that a x3 crit for him will cause him to do LESS damage than normal. To whit: A 4 str halfling with a dagger does 1d3-3 damage with a minimum of 1 point of damage. When making a sneak attack it's 1d3-3+xd6 with a minimum of 1 point of damage (and if he's only got a few sneak dice it could just be 1). Now getting a x3 crit with it (punching dagger) would do 3d3-9+xd6 damage, which 8/9 times will be less damage than if the critical did not confirm! Funny eh? -James personally, i'd rule that you'd add the sneak attack damage AFTER calculating the damage from the normal attack roll, but that's just me, its still funny to think about in any case.
zeratulcraft 02-05-08, 04:28 AM	Yep. The amusing part is where you have a small rogue that is so weak that a x3 crit for him will cause him to do LESS damage than normal. To whit: A 4 str halfling with a dagger does 1d3-3 damage with a minimum of 1 point of damage. When making a sneak attack it's 1d3-3+xd6 with a minimum of 1 point of damage (and if he's only got a few sneak dice it could just be 1). Now getting a x3 crit with it (punching dagger) would do 3d3-9+xd6 damage, which 8/9 times will be less damage than if the critical did not confirm! Funny eh? -James That's one of the reasons my group uses straight multipliers, rather than rerolling. So it would be 1d3-3 x3, for a minimum and maximum of 3 damage.
JamesMaissen 02-05-08, 06:21 AM	That's one of the reasons my group uses straight multipliers, rather than rerolling. So it would be 1d3-3 x3, for a minimum and maximum of 3 damage. Umm.. wouldn't it be a minimum and maximum of 1? If you roll a 1 that gives you a -2, times 3 is -6 then minimum damage is 1. If you roll a 3 that gives you a 0, times 3 is still 0 then minimum damage is 1. The point being that the minimum 1 damage is applied last... even after sneak attack. -James
zeratulcraft 02-05-08, 05:07 PM	Umm.. wouldn't it be a minimum and maximum of 1? If you roll a 1 that gives you a -2, times 3 is -6 then minimum damage is 1. If you roll a 3 that gives you a 0, times 3 is still 0 then minimum damage is 1. The point being that the minimum 1 damage is applied last... even after sneak attack. -James Nah, damage calculations first. 1d3-3 = minimum 1, multiplied x3, add extra dice.