Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Celebrindal 01-11-05, 04:11 PM	One of my players was firing arrows at fire elementals the other day, and I ruled that they were burning up prior to hitting the creature. We went looking through the rules and found a bit of confusion about how much hardness and hp an item has, but think I've got that cleared up now. My question is, what is the base hardness and hp for an arrow. (xbow bolts are listed as 5 5) Second If I remember correctly he is not firing magical ammunition but rather it's his bow that is causing the ammo to be treated as magical. Does that make any difference in calculating the hardness/hp? Finally the ammo in question is +5 seems kinda wacked for an arrow to have over 20 hardness, and 50hp. Anyone?
Rulebook 01-11-05, 04:15 PM	unless the elemental has a power that says projectile weapons burn up before striking, you're mistaken in causing them to do so. they might burn up AFTER, butthats after they stop moving.
kjenks 01-11-05, 04:21 PM	You screwed up. Arrows hitting a fire elemental only damage the elemental. They don't burn up before hitting. Arrows are destroyed after hitting their target. You could describe that as the visual effect of the DR 15/- (or whatever) that the elemental has, like saying, "The astounding magical power of your bow and your almost-epic skill with that weapon drives a hail of arrows through the air, but they cause mere ripples to appear in the flaming creature. Then it sunders your bow and eats your face."
Celebrindal 01-11-05, 04:33 PM	I was going with the dmg that is caused when you strike a fire elemental with either natural or unarmed attacks. You take x amount of dmg. I thought it seemed a fair assumption to do that dmg to the arrow as it was coming into the elemental. In either case neither of you answered as to how much hardness/hp the arrow should have. :D
kjenks 01-11-05, 05:06 PM	When fired by a +5 bow which bestows its enhancement bonus on its ammunition, the arrow has +10 hardness and +50 HP. Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a weapon’s or shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points. (Per DMG with errata.) Assuming the arrows start at hardness 5, HP 5, they end up at hardness 15, HP 55. However, I don't think 5/5 is the right starting point. The SRD table says: Light blade: Hardness 10, HP 2 That's for steel. Steel has 30 HP per inch of thickness and hardness 10. Wood has 10 HP per inch of thickness and hardness 5. So we should multiply HP by 10/30. So I'd figure wooden arrows as hardness 5, HP 1. With +5 bonus, that would be hardness 15, HP 51. More than enough to survive whatever damage shield a fire elemental has.
masterofmayhem 01-11-05, 05:11 PM	Finally the ammo in question is +5 seems kinda wacked for an arrow to have over 20 hardness, and 50hp. No, no it does not seem "kinda wacked" because it is magic, which you have never experienced in real life. I was going with the dmg that is caused when you strike a fire elemental with either natural or unarmed attacks. You take x amount of dmg. I thought it seemed a fair assumption to do that dmg to the arrow as it was coming into the elemental. No, an arrow is neither a nautral attack nor an unarmed attack. In either case neither of you answered as to how much hardness/hp the arrow should have. :D Hardness 5, HPs 2, as per the chart on page 166 of the PHB. So, in all, hardness 15, HPs 52.
Nom 01-11-05, 05:14 PM	Note that if a character successfully attacks a fire elemental with a natural or unarmed weapon, the character still deals normal damage even though they take damage as well. The return damage only applies once the elemental is struck. The logic is the same for arrows. The arrow strikes, dealing damage to the fire elemental, and you likewise apply damage to the arrow. Further, with respect to short-term fire resistance, an arrow is a lot more resilient than a creature. Lie a wooden arrow on a hot-plate and it will slowly char. Now lie your palm on the hot plate. Your palm will be affected by the heat a lot more quickly than the arrow was.