Dancing mongoose [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dancing mongoose [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nirenn
03-14-08, 06:44 PM Can you use dancing mongoose to make two additional attacks on a standard action with a Valenar double scimitar?
mplindustries
03-15-08, 01:02 AM Dancing Mongoose gives you additional attacks with each weapon you're holding. When you use a double weapon with a standard action, it is just a two handed weapon (with sub-par base damage). So, you'd get your normal standard action attack, plus one more with the same side of the double weapon from dancing mongoose.

It only counts as two weapons when you are using the two-weapon fighting option, which requires a full attack. So, when making a full attack, you'd get all the normal attacks from two-weapon fighting, plus one for each end of the double weapon thanks to dancing mongoose.
RavenDrake
03-15-08, 01:40 AM That's a reasonable ruling, but not necessrily a reasonable interpretation.

All double weapons contain the same line of text: "You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon (see Two-Weapon Fighting, page 160)." It says nothing about only on a full attack action, it says 'fight with'. While you can normally only gain benefit of extra attacks with an offhand weapon when you take the full attack action, feats such as Dual Strike and Double Hit give you other offhand weapon options. Unless, of course, you don't consider a character as having two weapons for these and similar feats when they're holding a double weapon.

I would say that, if you chose to, you could indeed make two extra attacks using this manuver, but as per the weapons ability you would need to be weilding it as a One-handed weapon and a light wepaon for all purposes for all attacks in the round, so your primary hand would deal only your strength bonus in damage, and your offhand would deal half your strength bonus in damage, etc.
Nirenn
03-15-08, 09:25 AM so your primary hand would deal only your strength bonus in damage, and your offhand would deal half your strength bonus in damage, etc.

Thats why I'm going for revenant blade. Tonnes of free interchangable feats and treats both ends of a double scimitar as a two handed weapon.
mplindustries
03-15-08, 10:39 AM That's a reasonable ruling, but not necessrily a reasonable interpretation.
Actually, I think what I said is a totally unreasonable ruling, but the exact literal interpretation. Its RAW unfortunately.

Its completely ridiculous to not allow it, I'm just saying it requires a house rule to do so.

Edit: Oh, and for Double Hit and those other feats...if they mention "Both weapons" or "Each weapon you hold/wield" or something like that, then RAW, they don't work with Double Weapons. They should, but don't.
Nirenn
03-15-08, 11:54 AM Oh well, as long as I get the extra attack on a standard action, its alright. The main purpose of this was to decide wether it was worth taking a few levels in Bloodclaw master for the pounching strike, but when I can do the same thing with Dancing Mongoose I might as well take a few levels of Tempest to get rid of my TWF penalties.

A full round action Double Scimitar with dancing mongoose, two weapon rend, weapon specialisation, improved critical and power attack with 1+1/2 strength bonus on attacks with no penalties sound good to me.

That is, of course, if I have this worked out right?
mplindustries
03-16-08, 02:36 AM A full round action Double Scimitar with dancing mongoose, two weapon rend, weapon specialisation, improved critical and power attack with 1+1/2 strength bonus on attacks with no penalties sound good to me.

That is, of course, if I have this worked out right?

All of that except the 1+1/2 strength part. You can't get extra "off-hand" attacks with the double weapon unless you actually use it in the two-weapon fighting mode. So you could get one extra attack if you use it as a two-hander. Or, you can get two extra attacks if you use it as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

PS - If revenant blade, a class I've never seen, gets some kind of ability to treat both ends as a two-hande weapon, disregard this entire post.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nirenn 03-14-08, 06:44 PM	Can you use dancing mongoose to make two additional attacks on a standard action with a Valenar double scimitar?
mplindustries 03-15-08, 01:02 AM	Dancing Mongoose gives you additional attacks with each weapon you're holding. When you use a double weapon with a standard action, it is just a two handed weapon (with sub-par base damage). So, you'd get your normal standard action attack, plus one more with the same side of the double weapon from dancing mongoose. It only counts as two weapons when you are using the two-weapon fighting option, which requires a full attack. So, when making a full attack, you'd get all the normal attacks from two-weapon fighting, plus one for each end of the double weapon thanks to dancing mongoose.
RavenDrake 03-15-08, 01:40 AM	That's a reasonable ruling, but not necessrily a reasonable interpretation. All double weapons contain the same line of text: "You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon (see Two-Weapon Fighting, page 160)." It says nothing about only on a full attack action, it says 'fight with'. While you can normally only gain benefit of extra attacks with an offhand weapon when you take the full attack action, feats such as Dual Strike and Double Hit give you other offhand weapon options. Unless, of course, you don't consider a character as having two weapons for these and similar feats when they're holding a double weapon. I would say that, if you chose to, you could indeed make two extra attacks using this manuver, but as per the weapons ability you would need to be weilding it as a One-handed weapon and a light wepaon for all purposes for all attacks in the round, so your primary hand would deal only your strength bonus in damage, and your offhand would deal half your strength bonus in damage, etc.
Nirenn 03-15-08, 09:25 AM	so your primary hand would deal only your strength bonus in damage, and your offhand would deal half your strength bonus in damage, etc. Thats why I'm going for revenant blade. Tonnes of free interchangable feats and treats both ends of a double scimitar as a two handed weapon.
mplindustries 03-15-08, 10:39 AM	That's a reasonable ruling, but not necessrily a reasonable interpretation. Actually, I think what I said is a totally unreasonable ruling, but the exact literal interpretation. Its RAW unfortunately. Its completely ridiculous to not allow it, I'm just saying it requires a house rule to do so. Edit: Oh, and for Double Hit and those other feats...if they mention "Both weapons" or "Each weapon you hold/wield" or something like that, then RAW, they don't work with Double Weapons. They should, but don't.
Nirenn 03-15-08, 11:54 AM	Oh well, as long as I get the extra attack on a standard action, its alright. The main purpose of this was to decide wether it was worth taking a few levels in Bloodclaw master for the pounching strike, but when I can do the same thing with Dancing Mongoose I might as well take a few levels of Tempest to get rid of my TWF penalties. A full round action Double Scimitar with dancing mongoose, two weapon rend, weapon specialisation, improved critical and power attack with 1+1/2 strength bonus on attacks with no penalties sound good to me. That is, of course, if I have this worked out right?
mplindustries 03-16-08, 02:36 AM	A full round action Double Scimitar with dancing mongoose, two weapon rend, weapon specialisation, improved critical and power attack with 1+1/2 strength bonus on attacks with no penalties sound good to me. That is, of course, if I have this worked out right? All of that except the 1+1/2 strength part. You can't get extra "off-hand" attacks with the double weapon unless you actually use it in the two-weapon fighting mode. So you could get one extra attack if you use it as a two-hander. Or, you can get two extra attacks if you use it as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. PS - If revenant blade, a class I've never seen, gets some kind of ability to treat both ends as a two-hande weapon, disregard this entire post.