Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darkhawk02 10-25-06, 11:23 PM	Hey all. For a while, I've been wondering about the amount of ammunition and weapons a character can carry. I've looked for a while, and can't seem to find any information or suggestions on the topic. In particular, the question is this: How much ammunition(such as arrows and bolts) and thrown weapons(such as daggers and javelins) can a character carry? For this, I'm looking at a character without magical equipment(such as a Quiver of Ehlonna). Also, assume that the character is only going to be carrying one type of ammunition/weapon - A bow and arrows, or just throwing axes. It would really be great to get some suggestions on this. There are certain weapons, such as shurikens, that are easy to try to make a decision on(because they're smaller weapons), but some(such as the javelin), I can't come to any conclusions. Thanks in advance. :cool: --Darkhawk
Waterhammer 10-25-06, 11:31 PM	The weights of various weapons, and ammunition are listed on pg 116-117 of the PHB. The rules on carrying capacity are found on pg 162 of the PHB. So you tally up all the weights, of all the gear you are carrying, and compare it to the chart on pg 162 (PHB)
claypigeons 10-25-06, 11:41 PM	Basically what Waterhammer stated. You can only carry a set amount of weight. Beyond that, actually getting to the stuff you carry easily is a problem. I could see someone carrying 2 quivers, and accessing them easily. More than that, and it's just a hassle. I think a normal quiver holds 20 arrows, for reference.
Darkhawk02 10-26-06, 01:00 AM	Waterhammer, claypigeons, Thanks for the replies! However, the weight and carrying capacity weren't really what I was getting at. I apologize if I was unclear. Claypigeons was a little closer to the point. I think I should have worded myself better. It should have been, "How much can a character carry and reasonably access?" For example, claypigeons comment about someone carrying two quivers is something I agree with. While one(carrying capacity permitting) could carry more quivers than that, it would be rather difficult to access them all.(Not to mention what a character would look like, with, say, five quivers strapped everywhere! :P ) To use the example I was talking about previously, about javelins, it's more of a "How many could the character strap on an use reasonably?" Or how many throwing axes, for that matter. I could see a decent number strapped to the belt in the case of throwing axes, but at what point does the number become a little extreme? I hope this clears up what I was trying to get at a bit. I'm really tired(up way past my usual bedtime), and hopefully I'm wording myself well. I appreciate both your comments. Thanks again. --Darkhawk
Ryu Katsuragi 10-26-06, 01:05 AM	I dunno much, but in terms of knives... I'd say about fourty, fifty (and this is not my real-life opinion, but coming fromt his is based on heroic, larger than life characters). Take a look at the Master Thrower. With the size of the blades there, you could get about eight around the tops of each arm, about five around your wrists (total twenty six), about ten around the thigh (fourty), some around the thighs (about eight each, fiftyeight), two on the shouders (sixty two), and maybe around about fifteen on the chest? (Seventy seven). Now, I wait the flaming from real life physics scientists, and such. x.x
Darkhawk02 10-26-06, 04:31 PM	Ryu, Your post is indeed helpful, and I promise to try to stomp out any flames that may occur because of it. ;) Side note: I don't have Complete Warrior(which is where the Master Thrower Prestige Class resides, correct me if I'm wrong), so unfortunately, I don't know anything about the blades in there. I'm just going to use daggers for example purposes. The idea of objects and their location is at the heart of what I'm trying to get suggestions about. You give about six different areas of the body where someone could conceivably carry daggers. Which helps, because the next time I(or my friends) ask, "Well, where could I put all my daggers?" we have some starting points. I've been intrigued with the concept of a dagger throwing character, the main problem being that you may have to carry a lot of daggers around to make it work.(Or at least enough to last you until you are forced into melee, at which time you can just use what's left to defend yourself.) So it's good to get a bunch of ideas of what you could do, and go from there. The problem I keep coming across generally happens with the bigger weapons. Throwing axes, light hammers, javelins, and the like. I'm not really sure how large they would be in the game, and so it's hard to guess, sometimes. You could put some throwing axes and light hammers, as I stated earlier, on the belt/waist, for sure. But I'm having trouble placing them on other locations. I found myself thinking today that javelins might be placed into something like a quiver for arrows, only larger. Perhaps around ten to fit inside?(Twenty?) Perhaps someone dedicated to a certain throwing weapon could use the same concept for a few other weapons, including things like throwing axes and light hammers. So, let me sum up a few things, to try to give a clear picture. What do you think of this? Throwing Weapons Daggers and shurikens -- Can be placed at several points on the body. They are small and light enough to be placed on the legs or arms, without making a considerable difference to a character's mobility. Question 1: Do darts fit up there? I'm not really sure how small they are. Clubs, shortspears, spears, javelins, tridents, throwing axes, light hammers -- Clubs, throwing axes, and light hammers can be fitted to the belt/waist. -- Javelins and shortspears could fit into large quivers, fitting about 10-20. -- Special quivers might be conceived for throwing axes and light hammers, again, fitting around 10-20. -- Tridents and spears possibly using the same style of quiver as shortspears and javelins, holding 5-10. Ammunition Arrows, bolts, and sling bullets -- Up to two quivers for arrows. One could be strapped to one's back, another perhaps to one's leg. Possible conception of simply larger quivers, holding 40 arrows? -- Bolts come in boxes, if I'm correct. Not too sure how to handle this one. Perhaps a special pocket, sewn into one's backpack for easy storage and use, or similarly strapped to one's arm or leg? Let's say, up to 4 boxes/40 bolts? --Sling bullets, since they come in nice little bags, one could definitely get a nice number on the belt. I'll say same as before, 4 bags/40 bullets. Any comments/suggestions would be great. Thanks for the reply, Ryu! --Darkhawk
PoorHobo 10-26-06, 05:53 PM	I don't like a hard and fast rule for it if thats what your hinting at. When I equip a character I like figuring out where the weapons go. Bandoliers, hip packs, tricep sheath, Hell even Gimble on page 27 of the PHB has got a quiver of bolts on his hip. Darts are small javelins, with a larger head Location is/should be purly a matter of flavor. If a GM asks how you are carrying 251 daggers he should be looking to you to figure something out not looking at a rulebook.
Rulebook 10-26-06, 06:09 PM	what, i cant carry that many daggers... dont look at me!
Darkhawk02 10-26-06, 07:11 PM	PoorHobo, I wasn't trying to find any fast, hard rules, to be honest. Just, as you've supplied, suggestions on how it could be done, really. At most, I'm looking for a baseline, based on the suggestions and opinions I receive. I've had trouble figuring out these things on my own. But based on some of the responses I've gotten, I've been thinking, "Oh! Ok, that makes sense. I'll have to remember that." I agree with you that if there were rules that decided how much ammunition you can carry, they would end up being ridiculous. Especially after someone(such as yourself ;) ) can offer a great explanation as to how their character can carry as much as they do. So, in sum, I posted this because I needed some help figuring this out. It's more of a pondering sort of thing, where I wanted to get some opinions on the topic and see what others had to say. Thanks for the post. I appreciate it. --Darkhawk
VirtualDream 10-26-06, 09:20 PM	Well, uh. Isn't this why people started using hammer space in the first place? Anyway, I think it's fair to say 'they're tallied up in doubles' and whatnot for how they're strapped to the body. These people have class levels, and whatnot. S'long as you have the typical adventuring gear and can still carry more, then, mechanically, you're sound. For the roleplaying experience, mayhaps have lots of pockets, or leather straps (in twos or threes, for daggers and the like.) And, uh, if it's more of a combat oriented campaign, then go hammerspace. You have them, you don't have the gold you spent on them, so they're in hand when you need them. :p (Or all in a belt/strap/whatever in convinence.
Waterhammer 10-26-06, 10:56 PM	To get a RL perspective; just visit the local hardware store They have hammers there, as well as dowels of varying thickness (to represent javelins). One of my players came up with a clever way of carrying javelins. He had 8 of them in loops on his large shield. I don't know how effective this would be IRL but, I could see it in my mind's eye.
thepsionicbard 10-27-06, 11:23 AM	And, uh, if it's more of a combat oriented campaign, then go hammerspace. You have them, you don't have the gold you spent on them, so they're in hand when you need them. :p (Or all in a belt/strap/whatever in convinence ok ill bite what's hammerspace ????????
Darkhawk02 10-27-06, 05:27 PM	Hey all. Waterhammer, the hardware store idea is great. I don't think I really have to go there. I can just take a look at the hammer in my room, here, and go from there. And to go along with thepsionicbard - Indeed. What is hammer space, VirtualDream? Once again, thanks all. It's been helping me out a lot. :D --Darkhawk
VirtualDream 10-27-06, 08:51 PM	Uh, well. It's a term used for cartoons and such. You know how that rascially rabbit managed to pull mallets and the like from absolutely nowhere? Hammerspace.
Darkhawk02 10-29-06, 12:32 PM	VirtualDream, Heheh. Nice. And being a fantasy game about heros and heroines who, by very nature, are people capable of heroic things, I suppose a bit of hammerspace wouldn't be too unbalancing. ;) Well, it would seem that we've pretty much wrapped up the thread. Anyone else who has any more comments on this topic, feel free! More opinions means more ideas to consider when the time comes. If anyone has a memorable account of other players' and DMs' ingenuity(such as Waterhammer's javelin loops in the shield), those would also be welcomed wholehearedly. To end, let me say that I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read, and to post, in this thread to help me out. I'm going to save and archive it for later use. Thanks for putting up with me(I do believe I really started this thread out on a confusing note, which, after some insightful posts, helped me figure out what I was really trying to ask. Because to be honest, I don't think I really knew what I was trying to ask about at first. :P ) So, cheers to: :dancin: Waterhammer, claypigeons, Ryu Katsuragi, PoorHobo, Rulebook, thepsionicbard, and VirtualDream.:dancin: --Darkhawk
Thane26425 10-29-06, 12:58 PM	In understand what you are asking, I think. 3.5 deals primarily with weights as the means of carrying things and not volumes. 2nd ed. got around this after a fashion but adding to the weight of an item how encumbering it would be. For example: an 8 by 10 foot rugh might weigh about 20 pounds but because it is cumbersome, the listed weight would have bee closer to 40 or 50 pounds. So, a decent throwing knife might have a 3.5 weight of 1 pound or whatever, but it would have dimensions of say 8 inches long, 1 inch wide by half and inch thick (mostly in the grip). Sure you could carry 50 knives, but very little else in a typical backpack. They would also be hard to get to. Arrows would be much the same. Just go to the sporting good section at Walmart and look at how much space a bundle of arrows takes up20 or so arrows makes a bundle about 6 inches thick by 30 inches long. Extrapolate that out by however many arrows you want to carry and you can see why in ancient armies, most arrows were carried on pack animals and in carts. 3.5 rules only add to the problem. I can see that arrows that miss a target would have a high change of breaking or being lost. However, throwing axes, hammers and knives will almost certainly survive a miss and also hitting a target. More realistic rules would allow for any spear, knife or axes that hits a target to be recoverable, though they would need cleaning and perhaps resharpening. Axe handles do break from time to time on misses, but those are easy to replace and a few spares would be carried for less weight than complete spare axes. Need to make another handle? just carve once while on sentry duty, its not that hard, though there might be an attack penalty for crude work.
Twylyght 10-29-06, 03:40 PM	For a long while my archer carried 2 quivers, with 20 extra arrows in a bundle in his pack, around 7th level he was able to get a pair of ehlonna quivers. On a not about ehlonnas quivers.... they can reall be usefull. We had had an adventure where we had attacked a mercenary camp. During the adventure we found a supply tent and since to that point id only ever filled the arrow compartments of the quivers so i almost fully stalked the quivers with javelins, bows, and spears. The adventure went on and after getting out of the camp we continued on our way. Several sessions later, we were on a quest to free prisoners of war from an orcish strong hold. Managing to stealth our way to the holding area, the rogue picks the locks and as the captured warriors make the way out of thier cells I just happened to have a stock pile of spears, javelins, and a few extra bows..... we created a wave of carnage in that camp afterward lol.