Darksteel: New material from MTG [Archive] - Wizards Community

Darksteel: New material from MTG [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psionx
04-16-08, 09:49 PM Magic the gathering:
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/DST/en-us/Card48158.jpghttp://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/DST/en-us/Card48048.jpghttp://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/DST/en-us/Card48072.jpg

Darksteel cannot be destroyed by destroy effects or lethal damage, however it can be returned to hand, discarded from hand, milled from library, and removed from the game among other things.

I propose the following be how it works in D&D:

Darksteel is an extremely rare darkened yet reflective metal that is twice as heavy as steel but much harder. Due to the resistive properties of this material it cannot be worked as metal is normally worked, only effects that significantly manipulate life force (such as energy drain or death effects) can sculpt this material. Despite the weight of darksteel items made of it provide no penalties other than this weight over what a similar item made of steel would. Weapons can be made of darksteel even if they normally have nonmetal components, but those components must be darksteel as well. Darksteel is not magnetic even though it has steel mixed throughout it. Weapons or armors fashioned from darksteel are always masterwork items.

An item made of darksteel does not take damage from attacks that deal damage, effects that cause energy drain deal damage to it equal to the number of levels that would be lost (hardness is applied against this type of damage), effects that would remove or destroy a soul instead deal damage equal to the caster/manifester level of the effect and ignore hardness. Darksteel items cannot be repaired normally, however a darksteel item repairs itself by 1 point of damage every round. A darksteel item can be completely repaired or even reconstructed after being completely destroyed by an ability capable of bringing back a dead creature (the item is always willing, however to resurrect it the proper command thought must be projected to identify the item which is determined by the first sculptor of the item and the character or object resurrecting the item must have had physical contact with the item at some point). An item made of darksteel is considered to be a living weapon, however it can never become an intelligent item (although it is conceivable for constructs to be fashioned from it). An item made of darksteel can never lose magical or psionic properties imbued into it by improving it through magic item creation feats or psionic item creation feats by any means (including its natural magical properties).

Darksteel is steel combined with spiritual energy. This spiritual energy can only be imbued into the steel by casting a create greater undead spell as though creating an undead with 35 HD on the negative energy plane. The creature imbuing the spiritual energy cannot be undead because the natural negative energies from an undead attempting to create darksteel would interfere with the mixing process. This process works on 1 pound of steel and creates 2 pounds of darksteel over 1 hour (the sculptor must remain on the negative energy plane and spend a move action each round in concentration on the process). As mentioned above, sculpting darksteel cannot be achieved by normal means, it must be sculpted by effects that affect life force. An energy drain effect that can drain 36 or more levels can sculpt 1 cubic foot per level drained over 35 darksteel into any desired shape. An effect that would remove or destroy a soul can sculpt 1 cubic foot per caster level/manifester level/HD (whichever applies). Sculpting multiple items made of darksteel into a single item is possible, however if this is done the sculptor must choose a new command thought for the item created. Although darksteel is created through the manipulation of negative energy it is not evil although it is magical and can bypass the appropriate damage reduction.

Darksteel has 70 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 35.

Obviously this stuff would have to be really expensive even in raw form and is probably best for epic level stuff.

-Darksteel can't be destroyed by normal means obviously, however it is still possible to destroy it.
-Even if an item made of darksteel is destroyed you can bring it back much like you would a character
-Never worry about mages disjunction effects again, however when the item is improved in some way whether magical or psionic that change cannot be reversed by such effects either.
-Undead can't create it so becoming a lich to overcome a lot of the negative effects won't work.
-The negative energy plane as a requisite site brings DM fiat into the spectrum of possibility.

Finished editing, so crazy or what?
RobbyPants
04-17-08, 09:27 AM I guess I wouldn't have gone with the whole "spiritual energy" apporach, but that's me. Is there something in MtG that hints at that, or is it your own creation?

I've always pictured it as either adamantine, or perhaps, a somewhat beefed up version of it.
Psionx
04-17-08, 12:38 PM In MTG you could remove soul a darksteel garygoyle, but you couldn't incinerate or shock it for example. You could kill it eventually with -1/-1 counters (energy drain) or you could return it to hand (send its soul elsewhere). Alternatively you could make the opponent discard it or mill it from their library which destroys its soul. Lastly, you could change possession of it (soul altering) or remove it from the game (very powerful soul removal). To mimic these resistive properties it had to be as hard to kill as a PC in D&D. The no lich creation and negative energy plane stuff just make it an epic level task to make it and fit with the theme. Unless there's a way to permanently kill a character without hope of bringing the character back, an item made from this stuff can brought back as many times as is necessary. Can't imagine a cost for it though, because even with death ward and the necessary spells, any number of hostile creatures can attack the creator while they are on the negative energy plane. That and liches can be as high level as the DM wants if necessary.

EDIT: Also note darksteel forge's flavor text->
"Did it have this shape upon Mirrodin's creation, or did some inconceivable force shape the unshapable?" - Pontifex, elder researcher

Soul altering effects might not be so common on Mirrodin which makes it inconceivable.

Also, note how all the darksteel cards cost a lot? This process fits with that as well. Lastly note how other than its defensive properties it doesn't do much? Darksteel colossus is just an 11/11 with trample really, its the magic properties added that make it better like darksteel ingot's ability to add mana.
RobbyPants
04-17-08, 12:45 PM In MTG you could remove soul a darksteel garygoyle, but you couldn't incinerate or shock it for example. You could kill it eventually with -1/-1 counters (energy drain) or you could return it to hand (send its soul elsewhere). Alternatively you could make the opponent discard it or mill it from their library which destroys its soul. Lastly, you could change possession of it (soul altering) or remove it from the game (very powerful soul removal). To mimic these resistive properties it had to be as hard to kill as a PC in D&D.
That makes more sense. I wasn't really looking at it that way (as in which cards would affect it).
Psionx
04-19-08, 01:01 AM That makes more sense. I wasn't really looking at it that way (as in which cards would affect it).

Well, as mentioned above, it isn't completely indestructible, but it would take a serious effort by the DM to do so (still had to leave an opening).
MAdgryphon
04-19-08, 12:57 PM Well, and there's always theft. If, say, a darksteel sword was stolen from it's owner, you could ressurect all day, but there's no reason for it to still come back to you. It seems very workable as a material, although an unwise DM could get themselves into a lot of trouble if they're too free with it. Price would need to be incredibly prohibitive... something like tens of thousands for a weapon.... Also, what kind of effect would it have if it could be made into armor?
Psionx
04-20-08, 02:20 AM Well, and there's always theft. If, say, a darksteel sword was stolen from it's owner, you could ressurect all day, but there's no reason for it to still come back to you. It seems very workable as a material, although an unwise DM could get themselves into a lot of trouble if they're too free with it. Price would need to be incredibly prohibitive... something like tens of thousands for a weapon.... Also, what kind of effect would it have if it could be made into armor?

Ahh... the armor problem... well since most armor doesn't take the damage from attacks, I'd have to say that the armor must have gaps of some sort... the face is left largely unprotected... this stuff is meant to not be destroyed by most stuff, but if something were to be covered entirely... well maybe it could be inflexible and the fine detailing required to make plate mail could be impossible... I've got it:

The minimum amount of darksteel that can ever be shaped is 1 lb, for weapons this isn't typically a problem as they are made entirely of darksteel (although certain weapons like flails may not be feasible). What this means is that the plate mail would have to be completely rigid and interconnected instead of being made of small pieces. It would be relatively useless because the wearer wouldn't be able to move. Also, encasing one's self inside a aggregate of the stuff would require the user to be very small... but since this is meant for epic level the DM could probably counter it. I pity the fighter however... no way in hell to get through it without a magic item.
Daeva
04-21-08, 02:32 AM so like... if dark steel is indestructible then it cant be broken, or bent, or melted, and stuff soooo... how does one produce armor, or a sword, or a golem out of dark steel if its totally unmaliable.... just saying.
Psionx
04-21-08, 10:54 AM Thats the thing, its not totally unmalleable, you just have to use kill spells (finger of death, slay living, etc...) to do it. Thats why its apparently indestructible, because no one would normally use those to destroy or shape an object. Also, with the armor thing, I realized that the DM would have to be pretty gullible to allow a party access to the 100 lbs (50 lbs of steel converted) of darksteel necessary to make a full plate, which even then has gaps. So the 1 lb minimum malleability shouldn't need to be factored. There's enough opportunities for DM fiat to stop any shenanigans.
Daeva
04-21-08, 03:37 PM im not 100% sure how death affects which cant target objects makes darksteel malleable, and the picture alone of the forge.

remove soul is a counter spell if you counter a summon golem spell, its not really killing the golem, finger of death/slay living doesn't work on dead/constructs.

but my question is.... how does someone make a weapon out of a material that is so strong it cant be destroyed... unmalleable as in cant be hammered bent, cracked etc

been like 7 or so years since i played MTG

FYI im being facetious... so take it with a grain of salt
Daeva
04-21-08, 03:39 PM eh removed the comment just me being facetious and full of shenanigans
ToastedAmphibian
04-21-08, 10:27 PM In MTG you could remove soul a darksteel garygoyle, but you couldn't incinerate or shock it for example. (Wouldnt that be a construct in DND?You could kill it eventually with -1/-1 counters (energy drain)(Wouldnt work if it was a construct.... or you could return it to hand (send its soul elsewhere)(Plane shift, dismisal, banishment.. your sending IT back to where it came from, not its soul). Alternatively you could make the opponent discard it or mill it from their library which destroys its soul. (Milling it from there library is more like removing it from there spell book. Your not destroying its soul, your just making them forget how to summon it.)Lastly, you could change possession of it (soul altering) (More like dominate or other mind affecting spells actually....)or remove it from the game (very powerful soul removal)(Agreed).

To me darksteel is basically MTG's version of adamantine. Adamantine is described as looking like steel, but darker..........

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psionx 04-16-08, 09:49 PM	Magic the gathering: http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/DST/en-us/Card48158.jpghttp://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/DST/en-us/Card48048.jpghttp://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/DST/en-us/Card48072.jpg Darksteel cannot be destroyed by destroy effects or lethal damage, however it can be returned to hand, discarded from hand, milled from library, and removed from the game among other things. I propose the following be how it works in D&D: Darksteel is an extremely rare darkened yet reflective metal that is twice as heavy as steel but much harder. Due to the resistive properties of this material it cannot be worked as metal is normally worked, only effects that significantly manipulate life force (such as energy drain or death effects) can sculpt this material. Despite the weight of darksteel items made of it provide no penalties other than this weight over what a similar item made of steel would. Weapons can be made of darksteel even if they normally have nonmetal components, but those components must be darksteel as well. Darksteel is not magnetic even though it has steel mixed throughout it. Weapons or armors fashioned from darksteel are always masterwork items. An item made of darksteel does not take damage from attacks that deal damage, effects that cause energy drain deal damage to it equal to the number of levels that would be lost (hardness is applied against this type of damage), effects that would remove or destroy a soul instead deal damage equal to the caster/manifester level of the effect and ignore hardness. Darksteel items cannot be repaired normally, however a darksteel item repairs itself by 1 point of damage every round. A darksteel item can be completely repaired or even reconstructed after being completely destroyed by an ability capable of bringing back a dead creature (the item is always willing, however to resurrect it the proper command thought must be projected to identify the item which is determined by the first sculptor of the item and the character or object resurrecting the item must have had physical contact with the item at some point). An item made of darksteel is considered to be a living weapon, however it can never become an intelligent item (although it is conceivable for constructs to be fashioned from it). An item made of darksteel can never lose magical or psionic properties imbued into it by improving it through magic item creation feats or psionic item creation feats by any means (including its natural magical properties). Darksteel is steel combined with spiritual energy. This spiritual energy can only be imbued into the steel by casting a create greater undead spell as though creating an undead with 35 HD on the negative energy plane. The creature imbuing the spiritual energy cannot be undead because the natural negative energies from an undead attempting to create darksteel would interfere with the mixing process. This process works on 1 pound of steel and creates 2 pounds of darksteel over 1 hour (the sculptor must remain on the negative energy plane and spend a move action each round in concentration on the process). As mentioned above, sculpting darksteel cannot be achieved by normal means, it must be sculpted by effects that affect life force. An energy drain effect that can drain 36 or more levels can sculpt 1 cubic foot per level drained over 35 darksteel into any desired shape. An effect that would remove or destroy a soul can sculpt 1 cubic foot per caster level/manifester level/HD (whichever applies). Sculpting multiple items made of darksteel into a single item is possible, however if this is done the sculptor must choose a new command thought for the item created. Although darksteel is created through the manipulation of negative energy it is not evil although it is magical and can bypass the appropriate damage reduction. Darksteel has 70 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 35. Obviously this stuff would have to be really expensive even in raw form and is probably best for epic level stuff. -Darksteel can't be destroyed by normal means obviously, however it is still possible to destroy it. -Even if an item made of darksteel is destroyed you can bring it back much like you would a character -Never worry about mages disjunction effects again, however when the item is improved in some way whether magical or psionic that change cannot be reversed by such effects either. -Undead can't create it so becoming a lich to overcome a lot of the negative effects won't work. -The negative energy plane as a requisite site brings DM fiat into the spectrum of possibility. Finished editing, so crazy or what?
RobbyPants 04-17-08, 09:27 AM	I guess I wouldn't have gone with the whole "spiritual energy" apporach, but that's me. Is there something in MtG that hints at that, or is it your own creation? I've always pictured it as either adamantine, or perhaps, a somewhat beefed up version of it.
Psionx 04-17-08, 12:38 PM	In MTG you could remove soul a darksteel garygoyle, but you couldn't incinerate or shock it for example. You could kill it eventually with -1/-1 counters (energy drain) or you could return it to hand (send its soul elsewhere). Alternatively you could make the opponent discard it or mill it from their library which destroys its soul. Lastly, you could change possession of it (soul altering) or remove it from the game (very powerful soul removal). To mimic these resistive properties it had to be as hard to kill as a PC in D&D. The no lich creation and negative energy plane stuff just make it an epic level task to make it and fit with the theme. Unless there's a way to permanently kill a character without hope of bringing the character back, an item made from this stuff can brought back as many times as is necessary. Can't imagine a cost for it though, because even with death ward and the necessary spells, any number of hostile creatures can attack the creator while they are on the negative energy plane. That and liches can be as high level as the DM wants if necessary. EDIT: Also note darksteel forge's flavor text-> "Did it have this shape upon Mirrodin's creation, or did some inconceivable force shape the unshapable?" - Pontifex, elder researcher Soul altering effects might not be so common on Mirrodin which makes it inconceivable. Also, note how all the darksteel cards cost a lot? This process fits with that as well. Lastly note how other than its defensive properties it doesn't do much? Darksteel colossus is just an 11/11 with trample really, its the magic properties added that make it better like darksteel ingot's ability to add mana.
RobbyPants 04-17-08, 12:45 PM	In MTG you could remove soul a darksteel garygoyle, but you couldn't incinerate or shock it for example. You could kill it eventually with -1/-1 counters (energy drain) or you could return it to hand (send its soul elsewhere). Alternatively you could make the opponent discard it or mill it from their library which destroys its soul. Lastly, you could change possession of it (soul altering) or remove it from the game (very powerful soul removal). To mimic these resistive properties it had to be as hard to kill as a PC in D&D. That makes more sense. I wasn't really looking at it that way (as in which cards would affect it).
Psionx 04-19-08, 01:01 AM	That makes more sense. I wasn't really looking at it that way (as in which cards would affect it). Well, as mentioned above, it isn't completely indestructible, but it would take a serious effort by the DM to do so (still had to leave an opening).
MAdgryphon 04-19-08, 12:57 PM	Well, and there's always theft. If, say, a darksteel sword was stolen from it's owner, you could ressurect all day, but there's no reason for it to still come back to you. It seems very workable as a material, although an unwise DM could get themselves into a lot of trouble if they're too free with it. Price would need to be incredibly prohibitive... something like tens of thousands for a weapon.... Also, what kind of effect would it have if it could be made into armor?
Psionx 04-20-08, 02:20 AM	Well, and there's always theft. If, say, a darksteel sword was stolen from it's owner, you could ressurect all day, but there's no reason for it to still come back to you. It seems very workable as a material, although an unwise DM could get themselves into a lot of trouble if they're too free with it. Price would need to be incredibly prohibitive... something like tens of thousands for a weapon.... Also, what kind of effect would it have if it could be made into armor? Ahh... the armor problem... well since most armor doesn't take the damage from attacks, I'd have to say that the armor must have gaps of some sort... the face is left largely unprotected... this stuff is meant to not be destroyed by most stuff, but if something were to be covered entirely... well maybe it could be inflexible and the fine detailing required to make plate mail could be impossible... I've got it: The minimum amount of darksteel that can ever be shaped is 1 lb, for weapons this isn't typically a problem as they are made entirely of darksteel (although certain weapons like flails may not be feasible). What this means is that the plate mail would have to be completely rigid and interconnected instead of being made of small pieces. It would be relatively useless because the wearer wouldn't be able to move. Also, encasing one's self inside a aggregate of the stuff would require the user to be very small... but since this is meant for epic level the DM could probably counter it. I pity the fighter however... no way in hell to get through it without a magic item.
Daeva 04-21-08, 02:32 AM	so like... if dark steel is indestructible then it cant be broken, or bent, or melted, and stuff soooo... how does one produce armor, or a sword, or a golem out of dark steel if its totally unmaliable.... just saying.
Psionx 04-21-08, 10:54 AM	Thats the thing, its not totally unmalleable, you just have to use kill spells (finger of death, slay living, etc...) to do it. Thats why its apparently indestructible, because no one would normally use those to destroy or shape an object. Also, with the armor thing, I realized that the DM would have to be pretty gullible to allow a party access to the 100 lbs (50 lbs of steel converted) of darksteel necessary to make a full plate, which even then has gaps. So the 1 lb minimum malleability shouldn't need to be factored. There's enough opportunities for DM fiat to stop any shenanigans.
Daeva 04-21-08, 03:37 PM	im not 100% sure how death affects which cant target objects makes darksteel malleable, and the picture alone of the forge. remove soul is a counter spell if you counter a summon golem spell, its not really killing the golem, finger of death/slay living doesn't work on dead/constructs. but my question is.... how does someone make a weapon out of a material that is so strong it cant be destroyed... unmalleable as in cant be hammered bent, cracked etc been like 7 or so years since i played MTG FYI im being facetious... so take it with a grain of salt
Daeva 04-21-08, 03:39 PM	eh removed the comment just me being facetious and full of shenanigans
ToastedAmphibian 04-21-08, 10:27 PM	In MTG you could remove soul a darksteel garygoyle, but you couldn't incinerate or shock it for example. (Wouldnt that be a construct in DND?You could kill it eventually with -1/-1 counters (energy drain)(Wouldnt work if it was a construct.... or you could return it to hand (send its soul elsewhere)(Plane shift, dismisal, banishment.. your sending IT back to where it came from, not its soul). Alternatively you could make the opponent discard it or mill it from their library which destroys its soul. (Milling it from there library is more like removing it from there spell book. Your not destroying its soul, your just making them forget how to summon it.)Lastly, you could change possession of it (soul altering) (More like dominate or other mind affecting spells actually....)or remove it from the game (very powerful soul removal)(Agreed). To me darksteel is basically MTG's version of adamantine. Adamantine is described as looking like steel, but darker..........