Darkvision + Spyglass [Archive] - Wizards Community

Darkvision + Spyglass [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tony111
09-25-06, 07:48 PM Dear Forum:

This is basically an equipment/ability question so I am not sure what forum it goes in. I'll put it here.

Suppose a character is standing on top of a castle tower using a spyglass. Further suppose that the character has darkvision 60.

How far, in your opinion, should the character's darkvision be able to go?

-Tony
Loki5654
09-25-06, 08:24 PM 60 feet.

Otherwise you get into the old argument of: How does Darkvision work?

Its one of the occasions where you need to sacrifice realism in favor of mechanics.
Dheran
09-25-06, 09:49 PM I'd actually go a bit further and say that any solid objects, including glass lenses, will block darkvision, so the answer is 0 ft. for that eye and 60 ft. for the other one. But a spyglass will enhance low-light vision.
runestar
09-26-06, 12:03 AM I would rule that darkvision simply lets a character see in darkness what a normal person could see in brightness.

Thus, yes, I would allow the range of darkvision to be extended via spyglasses.:) To however far it needs to go.
Geogoose
09-26-06, 01:35 AM I'd rule no.

Darkvision is different that normal vision. A device used to extend normal vision (focus light) would do nothing to help out non-light based Darkvision.
runestar
09-26-06, 02:40 AM Found this interesting titbit in the FAQ...
Does darkvision allow a character to read and write in the dark? Can he see his reflection in a mirror?

Darkvision is described as the “ability to see with no light source at all” (DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide, page 292). This suggests that a character with darkvision can read, write, and otherwise perform a normal range of actions despite being in complete darkness.

The simplest answer to the mirror question is yes. To avoid delving too deeply into real-world physics—something it’s best to resist, particularly in fantasy gaming—it’s easiest to treat darkvision as allowing a character to perceive anything that a normal person could see with light.
How relevant it is however...:P
tarkin
09-26-06, 10:56 AM I was going to refer to that bit in the FAQ as well.

It is my favorite bit of STUPIDITY in the FAQ. I generally like the FAQ. Most, but not all, of what they write there makes sense, helps you play the game, and limits abuses. But this is garbage.

Begin rant here.

"The simplest answer".
And that makes it good because? Besides, it is wrong - the simplest answer is NO, you can't do that.

"To avoid delving too deeply into real-world physics—"
In other words, we know the answer we gave is stupid, but we are going to give it anyway.

"something it’s best to resist, particularly in fantasy gaming"

Which again is moronic. It is NOT a bad idea to delve into real world physics - it is a GOOD idea. It an assumed part.

Or are we going to start saying that "well, the book does not mention gravity at all, so there is no gravity and we all float off the planet. We all can fly Horray.

I am an intelligent person. Most D20 players are smart and creative. Otherwise we would be playing a game that does not require so much math or creative story telling skills. (Math + literature? = smart geek in my book)

If I want "simple" I can go play a video game. There are lots of Fantasy themed video games out there, Ultima, Warcraft, etc. etc.

I, and most of the peopel here are MORE than smart enough to handle little things like "Mirrors reflect LIGHT, so they don't work in darkvision." and "things that are dark colored in light visision may be pale/blank/white/invisible in Darkvision, so you can not read normal books (but special books made with special darkvision ink can be read ONLY with darkvision, and mixed inks read the same in both visions).

Rant off.

Darkvision does not use light. It should not be increased by spyglasses, they are very much a light thing. Moreover, there is no LIMIT to regular vision, so spyglasses don't do that. Therefore:

I would let a spyglass negate distance penalties, but not increase the range you can see using Darkvision. This is probably not helpfull to people with 60 ft darkvision, but 120 ft darkvision might find it so, negating large spot penalties.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tony111 09-25-06, 07:48 PM	Dear Forum: This is basically an equipment/ability question so I am not sure what forum it goes in. I'll put it here. Suppose a character is standing on top of a castle tower using a spyglass. Further suppose that the character has darkvision 60. How far, in your opinion, should the character's darkvision be able to go? -Tony
Loki5654 09-25-06, 08:24 PM	60 feet. Otherwise you get into the old argument of: How does Darkvision work? Its one of the occasions where you need to sacrifice realism in favor of mechanics.
Dheran 09-25-06, 09:49 PM	I'd actually go a bit further and say that any solid objects, including glass lenses, will block darkvision, so the answer is 0 ft. for that eye and 60 ft. for the other one. But a spyglass will enhance low-light vision.
runestar 09-26-06, 12:03 AM	I would rule that darkvision simply lets a character see in darkness what a normal person could see in brightness. Thus, yes, I would allow the range of darkvision to be extended via spyglasses.:) To however far it needs to go.
Geogoose 09-26-06, 01:35 AM	I'd rule no. Darkvision is different that normal vision. A device used to extend normal vision (focus light) would do nothing to help out non-light based Darkvision.
runestar 09-26-06, 02:40 AM	Found this interesting titbit in the FAQ... Does darkvision allow a character to read and write in the dark? Can he see his reflection in a mirror? Darkvision is described as the “ability to see with no light source at all” (DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide, page 292). This suggests that a character with darkvision can read, write, and otherwise perform a normal range of actions despite being in complete darkness. The simplest answer to the mirror question is yes. To avoid delving too deeply into real-world physics—something it’s best to resist, particularly in fantasy gaming—it’s easiest to treat darkvision as allowing a character to perceive anything that a normal person could see with light. How relevant it is however...:P
tarkin 09-26-06, 10:56 AM	I was going to refer to that bit in the FAQ as well. It is my favorite bit of STUPIDITY in the FAQ. I generally like the FAQ. Most, but not all, of what they write there makes sense, helps you play the game, and limits abuses. But this is garbage. Begin rant here. "The simplest answer". And that makes it good because? Besides, it is wrong - the simplest answer is NO, you can't do that. "To avoid delving too deeply into real-world physics—" In other words, we know the answer we gave is stupid, but we are going to give it anyway. "something it’s best to resist, particularly in fantasy gaming" Which again is moronic. It is NOT a bad idea to delve into real world physics - it is a GOOD idea. It an assumed part. Or are we going to start saying that "well, the book does not mention gravity at all, so there is no gravity and we all float off the planet. We all can fly Horray. I am an intelligent person. Most D20 players are smart and creative. Otherwise we would be playing a game that does not require so much math or creative story telling skills. (Math + literature? = smart geek in my book) If I want "simple" I can go play a video game. There are lots of Fantasy themed video games out there, Ultima, Warcraft, etc. etc. I, and most of the peopel here are MORE than smart enough to handle little things like "Mirrors reflect LIGHT, so they don't work in darkvision." and "things that are dark colored in light visision may be pale/blank/white/invisible in Darkvision, so you can not read normal books (but special books made with special darkvision ink can be read ONLY with darkvision, and mixed inks read the same in both visions). Rant off. Darkvision does not use light. It should not be increased by spyglasses, they are very much a light thing. Moreover, there is no LIMIT to regular vision, so spyglasses don't do that. Therefore: I would let a spyglass negate distance penalties, but not increase the range you can see using Darkvision. This is probably not helpfull to people with 60 ft darkvision, but 120 ft darkvision might find it so, negating large spot penalties.