Post/Author/DateTime	Post
klode_me 04-21-05, 10:03 AM	does the -1 penality disappear when you fight with off-hand or two-handed weapons if the buckler is made of Darkwood?
Krelios 04-21-05, 10:12 AM	Darkwood: This rare magic wood is as hard as normal wood but very light. Any wooden or mostly wooden item (such as a bow, an arrow, or a spear) made from darkwood is considered a masterwork item and weighs only half as much as a normal wooden item of that type. Items not normally made of wood or only partially of wood (such as a battleaxe or a mace) either cannot be made from darkwood or do not gain any special benefit from being made of darkwood. The armor check penalty of a darkwood shield is lessened by 2 compared to an ordinary shield of its type. To determine the price of a darkwood item, use the original weight but add 10 gp per pound to the price of a masterwork version of that item. Darkwood has 10 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 5.Yep. Same with Mithril.
klode_me 04-21-05, 10:30 AM	Yep. Same with Mithril. are you sure that the -1 on attacks also disappear, because it is something special that is said only in the description. And it says -1 on attack roll, not the armor check penality. I Just need to know.
Mirtek 04-21-05, 11:32 AM	The attack penalty never disappears because of a reduced armor check penalty. The attack penalty is not caused by the armor check penalty, it just happens to have the same value. The rules do not say you get the buckler's ACP as an attack penalty, the rules say you get a -1 attack penalty. So even if you're using a buckler without an armor check penalty, you still get a -1 attack penalty PS: It would work the other way too. So if some special material would double the ACP, the attack penalty would still be -1 instead of -2.
klode_me 04-21-05, 12:03 PM	The attack penalty never disappears because of a reduced armor check penalty. The attack penalty is not caused by the armor check penalty, it just happens to have the same value. The rules do not say you get the buckler's ACP as an attack penalty, the rules say you get a -1 attack penalty. So even if you're using a buckler without an armor check penalty, you still get a -1 attack penalty PS: It would work the other way too. So if some special material would double the ACP, the attack penalty would still be -1 instead of -2. isn´t there a feat that make you ignore the penality?
Moon-Lancer 04-21-05, 12:21 PM	Yeah. Its in CA. Compleat Warrior. The wording is strange. May only apply to two weapon fighter. But could apply to two handed fighting as well.
Bopple 04-21-05, 12:29 PM	No, there is no such feat. Improved Buckler Defense lets you just retain the shield AC, when you attack with offhand. It doesn't remove attack roll penalty. The only way to achieve it, is using a buckler-axe or a tortoise-blade, with Improved Buckler Defense.
mvincent 04-21-05, 07:34 PM	The attack penalty never disappears because of a reduced armor check penalty. The attack penalty is not caused by the armor check penalty, it just happens to have the same value.Can you say where is says this? This seems to conflict with the rules in the equipment section: "A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks."
Johannixx 04-21-05, 08:48 PM	Can you say where is says this? This seems to conflict with the rules in the equipment section: "A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks." Well, considering that even someone proficient with the buckler takes the -1 penalty for attacking with a weapon held in the same hand, I'd say there's some merit to it. Nonproficiency results in the user being just a little slower while wielding the buckler, or perhaps occasionally deflecting his own attacks while trying to block. Wielding a weapon in your buckler hand is tougher because the extra weight impairs your speed, and the hand strap generally impedes your grip as well.
Mirtek 04-22-05, 03:58 AM	Can you say where is says this? This seems to conflict with the rules in the equipment section: "A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks." That are two different rules. 1. You have the -1 penalty to attack everyone takes with a buckler, no matter whether he's proficient or not. 2. If you're not proficient with a shield you take the shield's ACP as penalty. The rules don't link the standard -1 penalty for using a buckler in any way to it's ACP, it's an unnamed penalty and it's just a coincidence that they're both -1. If you're not proficient with a buckler you take the unnamed -1 and the extra -1 ACP penalty for a total -2 penalty to your attack roles. If you're proficient or just use a mithril buckler without ACP you only have the unnamed -1 penalty, but as an unnamed penalty it never goes away just because the ACP changes.
mvincent 04-22-05, 11:43 AM	If you're proficient or just use a mithril buckler without ACP you only have the unnamed -1 penalty, but as an unnamed penalty it never goes away just because the ACP changes.Ah. Correct. My apologies (I had incorrectly thought the thread about non-proficiency penalties).