darkwood spear - cheap masterwork item? [Archive] - Wizards Community

darkwood spear - cheap masterwork item? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Longarms
04-25-07, 01:04 AM Nevermind, I learned to read between when I posted this and now ;)
mvincent
04-26-07, 02:52 PM Nevermind, I learned to read between when I posted this and now ;)Trivia note: a mithral dagger made for a halfling would be cheaper than a regular masterwork dagger.
tarkin
04-26-07, 03:25 PM Mvincent is only correct if you House Rule.

Mithral does NOT say 5 gp /.01 lbs. It says 500 gp/1 lb.

That does not in ANY way tell you what the cost is for an item of less than one pound.

He is assuming that mithral can be purchased in increments of less than 1 lb at the exact same rate.

That is not the brightest claim in the world. It indicates total ignorance of economics. Any economicist will tell you that you usually get a discount for buying in bulk, and that usually there is a minimum price.

If you hire someone for $20/hour, you usually have to pay them for at least an hour, not $10 for a 30 minutes of work.

If your DM is willing to let you buy a masterwork weapon that also has the advantage of being mithral for less than the cost of a masterwork weapon, fine.

But don't expect intelligent DM's to do the same.
bondious
04-26-07, 03:41 PM I believe that a masterwork weapon is 300gp, whether it's steel or iron or if you can somehow make it out of mithral or darkwood. That's my price, and it's set...unless the weapon's made out of a material like cold iron or adamantine, ones that are expressly suited for weapons, of course.

As for this:

If you hire someone for $20/hour, you usually have to pay them for at least an hour, not $10 for a 30 minutes of work.

I'm a regular, hourly employee, and am routinely paid for half an hour or a quarter of an hour's work. If I work 7 1/2 hours, I get paid for 7 full hours and then for an additional 1/2 of an hour. The only folks I know who get a guaranteed pay are the salaried employees. They get a set number of dollars per day, regardless of how many hours they work. In these cases, they get their money whether they work 8 hours, 12 hours, or go home early after lunch after only 5-6 hours.

Maybe I've misunderstood you, and you meant if someone hires you for $20 for a job that should take an hour, but it only takes you a half hour. In this case, you are absolutely correct.
RobbyPants
04-26-07, 03:45 PM Of course, the special material entries the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) states:
Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.
Granted, it would probably be a house-rule, but it seems very reasonalbe to use the standard masterwork price or the matieral price, whichever is higher. It seems quite odd to have a +300gp cost "included in" the price for an item that costs less than 300gp. :P
mvincent
04-26-07, 04:01 PM Mvincent is only correct if you House Rule.No. That is not only a legitimate interpretation of the existing rules (and thus not a house rule), but I would be surprised at anyone doing the math otherwise (yes tarkin... you surprise me).

Mithral does NOT say 5 gp /.01 lbs. It says 500 gp/1 lb.

That does not in ANY way tell you what the cost is for an item of less than one pound.You are being silly tarkin (very silly in fact). Fine... buy two mithral daggers if you must.

He is assuming that mithral can be purchased in increments of less than 1 lb at the exact same rate.

That is not the brightest claim in the world. It indicates total ignorance of economics. Any economicist will tell you that you usually get a discount for buying in bulkThere is no bulk discount here... A 10 lb. weapon would cost price per lb. x10. A half pound weapon would cost price per lb. x1/2... that's just how math works in both D&D and the real world. Similarly, a darkwood dart would add 5 gp to the cost of a masterwork dart

Don't make me mock you.

If your DM is willing to let you buy a masterwork weapon that also has the advantage of being mithral for less than the cost of a masterwork weapon, fine.See now, that is a fair point. A DM could certainly use common sense in adjudicating this (but your case above had nothing to do with common sense).
Zaistars69
04-26-07, 04:15 PM Mvincent is only correct if you House Rule.

Mithral does NOT say 5 gp /.01 lbs. It says 500 gp/1 lb.

That does not in ANY way tell you what the cost is for an item of less than one pound.

He is assuming that mithral can be purchased in increments of less than 1 lb at the exact same rate.

That is not the brightest claim in the world. It indicates total ignorance of economics. Any economicist will tell you that you usually get a discount for buying in bulk, and that usually there is a minimum price.

If you hire someone for $20/hour, you usually have to pay them for at least an hour, not $10 for a 30 minutes of work.

If your DM is willing to let you buy a masterwork weapon that also has the advantage of being mithral for less than the cost of a masterwork weapon, fine.

But don't expect intelligent DM's to do the same.

Wait a minute. So a halfling baby's spoon crafted from mithril (maybe 1/100lb) costs $500gp. Sorry Tarkin a mithril dagger costs $250gp.
bondious
04-26-07, 04:19 PM Wait a minute. So a halfling baby's spoon crafted from mithril (maybe 1/100lb) costs $500gp. Sorry Tarkin a mithril dagger costs $250gp.

A halfling's baby's spoon also isn't a weapon, and therefore doesn't have a 300gp "masterwork cost". In this case, you would probably figure out the normal weight of the spoon and do some math.
mvincent
04-26-07, 04:22 PM A halfling's baby's spoon also isn't a weapon, and therefore doesn't have a 300gp "masterwork cost". In this case, you would probably figure out the normal weight of the spoon and do some math.Re-read tarkin's justification.

Most of us agree with the minimum masterwork cost. It is the minimum weight cost that is a bad argument.
bondious
04-26-07, 04:39 PM Re-read tarkin's justification.

Most of us agree with the minimum masterwork cost. It is the minimum weight cost that is a bad argument.

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that a baby's mithral spoon isn't in the same category as a mithral dagger, and shouldn't be put there.

That's all.

For non-weapon and non-armor items, I'm all for doing a fraction of the 500gp/lb to find out their price. So if that spoon is, say, 1/10 of a pound, then it should be 1/10th of the price (or 50gp). If it's 1/100th of a pound, then it should be 5gp, which is what I'd charge for a mithral spoon, I think.
mvincent
04-26-07, 04:46 PM I'm just saying that a baby's mithral spoon isn't in the same category as a mithral daggerAccording to the mithral pricing rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) (i.e. "Other items: +500 gp/lb."), they are.
bondious
04-26-07, 04:55 PM According to the mithral pricing rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) (i.e. "Other items: +500 gp/lb."), they are.

I understand that, and if someone wanted a big old greataxe (12lbs) or a mace (8lbs) then I'd used that "500gp/lb" formlua. But if the price falls below the normal 300gp masterwork cost of a weapon, then 300gp is as low as I'm gonna go for a weapon in one of my games. Hell, if someone wants it for cheaper then they're always free to take ranks in Craft (weaponsmith) and make it themselves for a possible 1/3rd of the price.
Zaistars69
04-26-07, 04:56 PM According to the mithral pricing rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) (i.e. "Other items: +500 gp/lb."), they are.

haha, that's funny. Maybe it's a really shiney and smooth spoon. Masterwork so when the baby throws it back at you it get's a +1 attack bonus. :)
mvincent
04-26-07, 05:05 PM if the price falls below the normal 300gp masterwork cost of a weapon, then 300gp is as low as I'm gonna go for a weapon in one of my games.As I mentioned, most of us completely agree with that method. It simply has nothing to do with tarkin's argument (or with mithral pricing at all, really).
bondious
04-26-07, 05:08 PM As I mentioned, most of us completely agree with that method. It simply has nothing to do with tarkin's argument (or with mithral pricing at all, really).

I could give a damn about tarkin's arguement (no offense, tarkin). My posting about a "halfling's baby's mithral spoon" had nothing to do with that. I was just trying to make clear that a baby's spoon isn't the same thing as a dagger, and shouldn't be used in comparison with the other to prove a point.

That's all.

So now that you say we're in complete agreement, then that's all that matters and there's no reason to go back and forth any longer. Right?
mvincent
04-26-07, 05:10 PM haha, that's funny. Maybe it's a really shiney and smooth spoon. Masterwork so when the baby throws it back at you it get's a +1 attack bonus. :)Actually, non-weapon (and non-armor) items are frequently made out of mithral. As shown, the cost per lb. is intended to include them. It is simply that the rules also say "Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well" that makes weapons different from other (non-weapon) items.
mvincent
04-26-07, 05:12 PM So now that you say we're in complete agreement, then that's all that matters and there's no reason to go back and forth any longer. Right?Yup
jaelis
04-26-07, 09:21 PM Well, though I wouldn't say that Tarkin's argument is the only way to interpret it, or even the most obvious way to interpret it, I think it probably is the most sensible way to interpret it. You're getting the benefit of masterwork and more, you should pay more.

So yes, a mithral baby spoon would cost +500 gp. Why not? As the crafting rules clearly indicate, the reason mithral is so expensive is not just that mithral is incredibly rare, it is also very hard to work (since a mithral breastplate takes what, 20 times longer to make than a steel one?) Obviously only a great craftsman could fashion such a fancy baby spoon, and he should expect to be paid according to his talents.

So in the dnd world, being born with a silver spoon in your mouth is nothing compared to being born with a mithral spoon in your mouth :)
Zaistars69
04-26-07, 10:13 PM Actually, non-weapon (and non-armor) items are frequently made out of mithral. As shown, the cost per lb. is intended to include them. It is simply that the rules also say "Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well" that makes weapons different from other (non-weapon) items.

I know that, I was making a joke. Besides it could be a tiny little mithril club in the shape of a spoon. :)
Devlonir
04-27-07, 03:15 AM Actually.. Tarkin was right when it comes down to basic economics, and bondious was only looking at it from the employee point of view.

Your boss probably charges customers per full hour, or half an hour, or 15 minutes, or whatever. But the only people who normally get paid by the minute are lawyers.. and they are evil!

I agree that it is a horrible rule loop hole that a mithril dagger is cheaper than a normal masterwork one. And i think Tarkin had it right that in any normal economy that simply would not work. Why would anyone want to use a masterwork dagger if a mithril one is lighter and cheaper?

Now, in a fantasy setting.. what is mithril? Oh yes, a RARE metal. Something made of a rare metal should never be cheaper than or even cost as much as a masterwork item of normal metal.

I agree with Tarkin with the minimum price of 1 lb of mithril per weapon.
Zaistars69
04-27-07, 10:54 AM I agree that it is a horrible rule loop hole that a mithril dagger is cheaper than a normal masterwork one.

Yes but that's the kind of nonsense you get when you make masterworking a weapon a static price change. Seriously, making a halfling sized dagger masterwork costs the same as making a greatsword sized for a Cloud giant masterwork. It's a rediculous mechanic but that's what you get when you try and make time and cost relative.
mvincent
04-27-07, 02:04 PM I agree with Tarkin with the minimum price of 1 lb of mithril per weapon.Tarkin's argument was based on the rules reflecting a 'bulk discount' or that they implied that items (not necessarily weapons) don't cost less if they are smaller than 1 lb. The rules do no such thing. Masterwork mithral weapons should have a minimum cost (everyone here agrees on that), but that is more due to masterwork costs, not mithral pricing.

We are talking strictly about the rules here. By the rules, Mithral pricing is by weight. 1/2 lb. mithral items cost less than 1 lb. items due to basic math. That's simply how the pricing rules work. There are no discounts for bulk.

Similarly, a wand with 10 charge will cost 1/5 the amount of a wand with 50. Buying a dozen wands will also not get you further discounts according to the regular D&D rules (but a DM is free to adjudicate adjustments outside of the rules if desired).

If you looked on the trade goods table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins) one would surmise that:
1/2 pound of pepper would be worth 1gp
1/2 pound of salt or silver would be worth 2.5 gp
1/2 pound of gold would be worth 25 gp
1/2 pound of platinum would be worth 250 gp.
etc.

That's just how the D&D rules work. tarkin presented an argument contrary to that and so it was (rightly) disputed is all.
Toki_Wartooth
04-27-07, 02:30 PM Tarkin was right when it comes down to basic economics.But he was wrong in his belief that the rules reflect that here.

I agree that it is a horrible rule loop hole that a mithril dagger is cheaper than a normal masterwork one.That's the point: it was a rules loophole. tarkin's argument was that the rules didn't actually allow for such a loophole. I'm guessing that you really agree with everyone else here (i.e. that the loophole should be closed), rather than tarkin (i.e. that there is no spoon...er, loophole).
dragonriderranger
04-28-07, 01:23 AM some people want to know what the dark wood spear is and its stats
:mad:
Forged_Fury
04-28-07, 07:46 AM some people want to know what the dark wood spear is and its stats
:mad:

Umm... that's pretty easy.

It's a masterwork (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#masterworkWeapons) spear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#spear) made from darkwood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#darkwood). (Not being snarky, the underlined bits are hyperlinks).

In essence, it's a spear that weighs half what a normal one does and gives a +1 to hit.

-FF
Luis_Dragunov
04-28-07, 10:24 AM If I was a halfling, I'd pay the 500gp for the mithral dagger, but demand the rest of the pound back!
RavenDrake
04-28-07, 07:14 PM Actually, the small mithril dagger would cost more than 300gp in one of my games.

As it says, all weapons and armour made of Mithril are considered masterwork, which means the masterwork cost is subsumed in the value of the item... that means a small mithril dagger (normally 1/2 pound) is first a masterwork item(+300gp) with 1/2 pounds worth of mithril ( which is worth half the remaining per pound price, which would be .5 x 200gp for 100gp worth). So small mithril dagger would cost 402gp.

(Note that price reflects my ruling to consider mithril just like darkwood and price it's "per pound" cost against the original cost of the item. If you choose to price mithrial by Actual Pounds of the finished product then you'd add .25 x 200 or 50gp for the quarter pound of mithril that composes the dagger, for a final total of 352gp).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Longarms 04-25-07, 01:04 AM	Nevermind, I learned to read between when I posted this and now ;)
mvincent 04-26-07, 02:52 PM	Nevermind, I learned to read between when I posted this and now ;)Trivia note: a mithral dagger made for a halfling would be cheaper than a regular masterwork dagger.
tarkin 04-26-07, 03:25 PM	Mvincent is only correct if you House Rule. Mithral does NOT say 5 gp /.01 lbs. It says 500 gp/1 lb. That does not in ANY way tell you what the cost is for an item of less than one pound. He is assuming that mithral can be purchased in increments of less than 1 lb at the exact same rate. That is not the brightest claim in the world. It indicates total ignorance of economics. Any economicist will tell you that you usually get a discount for buying in bulk, and that usually there is a minimum price. If you hire someone for $20/hour, you usually have to pay them for at least an hour, not $10 for a 30 minutes of work. If your DM is willing to let you buy a masterwork weapon that also has the advantage of being mithral for less than the cost of a masterwork weapon, fine. But don't expect intelligent DM's to do the same.
bondious 04-26-07, 03:41 PM	I believe that a masterwork weapon is 300gp, whether it's steel or iron or if you can somehow make it out of mithral or darkwood. That's my price, and it's set...unless the weapon's made out of a material like cold iron or adamantine, ones that are expressly suited for weapons, of course. As for this: If you hire someone for $20/hour, you usually have to pay them for at least an hour, not $10 for a 30 minutes of work. I'm a regular, hourly employee, and am routinely paid for half an hour or a quarter of an hour's work. If I work 7 1/2 hours, I get paid for 7 full hours and then for an additional 1/2 of an hour. The only folks I know who get a guaranteed pay are the salaried employees. They get a set number of dollars per day, regardless of how many hours they work. In these cases, they get their money whether they work 8 hours, 12 hours, or go home early after lunch after only 5-6 hours. Maybe I've misunderstood you, and you meant if someone hires you for $20 for a job that should take an hour, but it only takes you a half hour. In this case, you are absolutely correct.
RobbyPants 04-26-07, 03:45 PM	Of course, the special material entries the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) states: Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. Granted, it would probably be a house-rule, but it seems very reasonalbe to use the standard masterwork price or the matieral price, whichever is higher. It seems quite odd to have a +300gp cost "included in" the price for an item that costs less than 300gp. :P
mvincent 04-26-07, 04:01 PM	Mvincent is only correct if you House Rule.No. That is not only a legitimate interpretation of the existing rules (and thus not a house rule), but I would be surprised at anyone doing the math otherwise (yes tarkin... you surprise me). Mithral does NOT say 5 gp /.01 lbs. It says 500 gp/1 lb. That does not in ANY way tell you what the cost is for an item of less than one pound.You are being silly tarkin (very silly in fact). Fine... buy two mithral daggers if you must. He is assuming that mithral can be purchased in increments of less than 1 lb at the exact same rate. That is not the brightest claim in the world. It indicates total ignorance of economics. Any economicist will tell you that you usually get a discount for buying in bulkThere is no bulk discount here... A 10 lb. weapon would cost price per lb. x10. A half pound weapon would cost price per lb. x1/2... that's just how math works in both D&D and the real world. Similarly, a darkwood dart would add 5 gp to the cost of a masterwork dart Don't make me mock you. If your DM is willing to let you buy a masterwork weapon that also has the advantage of being mithral for less than the cost of a masterwork weapon, fine.See now, that is a fair point. A DM could certainly use common sense in adjudicating this (but your case above had nothing to do with common sense).
Zaistars69 04-26-07, 04:15 PM	Mvincent is only correct if you House Rule. Mithral does NOT say 5 gp /.01 lbs. It says 500 gp/1 lb. That does not in ANY way tell you what the cost is for an item of less than one pound. He is assuming that mithral can be purchased in increments of less than 1 lb at the exact same rate. That is not the brightest claim in the world. It indicates total ignorance of economics. Any economicist will tell you that you usually get a discount for buying in bulk, and that usually there is a minimum price. If you hire someone for $20/hour, you usually have to pay them for at least an hour, not $10 for a 30 minutes of work. If your DM is willing to let you buy a masterwork weapon that also has the advantage of being mithral for less than the cost of a masterwork weapon, fine. But don't expect intelligent DM's to do the same. Wait a minute. So a halfling baby's spoon crafted from mithril (maybe 1/100lb) costs $500gp. Sorry Tarkin a mithril dagger costs $250gp.
bondious 04-26-07, 04:19 PM	Wait a minute. So a halfling baby's spoon crafted from mithril (maybe 1/100lb) costs $500gp. Sorry Tarkin a mithril dagger costs $250gp. A halfling's baby's spoon also isn't a weapon, and therefore doesn't have a 300gp "masterwork cost". In this case, you would probably figure out the normal weight of the spoon and do some math.
mvincent 04-26-07, 04:22 PM	A halfling's baby's spoon also isn't a weapon, and therefore doesn't have a 300gp "masterwork cost". In this case, you would probably figure out the normal weight of the spoon and do some math.Re-read tarkin's justification. Most of us agree with the minimum masterwork cost. It is the minimum weight cost that is a bad argument.
bondious 04-26-07, 04:39 PM	Re-read tarkin's justification. Most of us agree with the minimum masterwork cost. It is the minimum weight cost that is a bad argument. Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that a baby's mithral spoon isn't in the same category as a mithral dagger, and shouldn't be put there. That's all. For non-weapon and non-armor items, I'm all for doing a fraction of the 500gp/lb to find out their price. So if that spoon is, say, 1/10 of a pound, then it should be 1/10th of the price (or 50gp). If it's 1/100th of a pound, then it should be 5gp, which is what I'd charge for a mithral spoon, I think.
mvincent 04-26-07, 04:46 PM	I'm just saying that a baby's mithral spoon isn't in the same category as a mithral daggerAccording to the mithral pricing rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) (i.e. "Other items: +500 gp/lb."), they are.
bondious 04-26-07, 04:55 PM	According to the mithral pricing rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) (i.e. "Other items: +500 gp/lb."), they are. I understand that, and if someone wanted a big old greataxe (12lbs) or a mace (8lbs) then I'd used that "500gp/lb" formlua. But if the price falls below the normal 300gp masterwork cost of a weapon, then 300gp is as low as I'm gonna go for a weapon in one of my games. Hell, if someone wants it for cheaper then they're always free to take ranks in Craft (weaponsmith) and make it themselves for a possible 1/3rd of the price.
Zaistars69 04-26-07, 04:56 PM	According to the mithral pricing rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) (i.e. "Other items: +500 gp/lb."), they are. haha, that's funny. Maybe it's a really shiney and smooth spoon. Masterwork so when the baby throws it back at you it get's a +1 attack bonus. :)
mvincent 04-26-07, 05:05 PM	if the price falls below the normal 300gp masterwork cost of a weapon, then 300gp is as low as I'm gonna go for a weapon in one of my games.As I mentioned, most of us completely agree with that method. It simply has nothing to do with tarkin's argument (or with mithral pricing at all, really).
bondious 04-26-07, 05:08 PM	As I mentioned, most of us completely agree with that method. It simply has nothing to do with tarkin's argument (or with mithral pricing at all, really). I could give a damn about tarkin's arguement (no offense, tarkin). My posting about a "halfling's baby's mithral spoon" had nothing to do with that. I was just trying to make clear that a baby's spoon isn't the same thing as a dagger, and shouldn't be used in comparison with the other to prove a point. That's all. So now that you say we're in complete agreement, then that's all that matters and there's no reason to go back and forth any longer. Right?
mvincent 04-26-07, 05:10 PM	haha, that's funny. Maybe it's a really shiney and smooth spoon. Masterwork so when the baby throws it back at you it get's a +1 attack bonus. :)Actually, non-weapon (and non-armor) items are frequently made out of mithral. As shown, the cost per lb. is intended to include them. It is simply that the rules also say "Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well" that makes weapons different from other (non-weapon) items.
mvincent 04-26-07, 05:12 PM	So now that you say we're in complete agreement, then that's all that matters and there's no reason to go back and forth any longer. Right?Yup
jaelis 04-26-07, 09:21 PM	Well, though I wouldn't say that Tarkin's argument is the only way to interpret it, or even the most obvious way to interpret it, I think it probably is the most sensible way to interpret it. You're getting the benefit of masterwork and more, you should pay more. So yes, a mithral baby spoon would cost +500 gp. Why not? As the crafting rules clearly indicate, the reason mithral is so expensive is not just that mithral is incredibly rare, it is also very hard to work (since a mithral breastplate takes what, 20 times longer to make than a steel one?) Obviously only a great craftsman could fashion such a fancy baby spoon, and he should expect to be paid according to his talents. So in the dnd world, being born with a silver spoon in your mouth is nothing compared to being born with a mithral spoon in your mouth :)
Zaistars69 04-26-07, 10:13 PM	Actually, non-weapon (and non-armor) items are frequently made out of mithral. As shown, the cost per lb. is intended to include them. It is simply that the rules also say "Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well" that makes weapons different from other (non-weapon) items. I know that, I was making a joke. Besides it could be a tiny little mithril club in the shape of a spoon. :)
Devlonir 04-27-07, 03:15 AM	Actually.. Tarkin was right when it comes down to basic economics, and bondious was only looking at it from the employee point of view. Your boss probably charges customers per full hour, or half an hour, or 15 minutes, or whatever. But the only people who normally get paid by the minute are lawyers.. and they are evil! I agree that it is a horrible rule loop hole that a mithril dagger is cheaper than a normal masterwork one. And i think Tarkin had it right that in any normal economy that simply would not work. Why would anyone want to use a masterwork dagger if a mithril one is lighter and cheaper? Now, in a fantasy setting.. what is mithril? Oh yes, a RARE metal. Something made of a rare metal should never be cheaper than or even cost as much as a masterwork item of normal metal. I agree with Tarkin with the minimum price of 1 lb of mithril per weapon.
Zaistars69 04-27-07, 10:54 AM	I agree that it is a horrible rule loop hole that a mithril dagger is cheaper than a normal masterwork one. Yes but that's the kind of nonsense you get when you make masterworking a weapon a static price change. Seriously, making a halfling sized dagger masterwork costs the same as making a greatsword sized for a Cloud giant masterwork. It's a rediculous mechanic but that's what you get when you try and make time and cost relative.
mvincent 04-27-07, 02:04 PM	I agree with Tarkin with the minimum price of 1 lb of mithril per weapon.Tarkin's argument was based on the rules reflecting a 'bulk discount' or that they implied that items (not necessarily weapons) don't cost less if they are smaller than 1 lb. The rules do no such thing. Masterwork mithral weapons should have a minimum cost (everyone here agrees on that), but that is more due to masterwork costs, not mithral pricing. We are talking strictly about the rules here. By the rules, Mithral pricing is by weight. 1/2 lb. mithral items cost less than 1 lb. items due to basic math. That's simply how the pricing rules work. There are no discounts for bulk. Similarly, a wand with 10 charge will cost 1/5 the amount of a wand with 50. Buying a dozen wands will also not get you further discounts according to the regular D&D rules (but a DM is free to adjudicate adjustments outside of the rules if desired). If you looked on the trade goods table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins) one would surmise that: 1/2 pound of pepper would be worth 1gp 1/2 pound of salt or silver would be worth 2.5 gp 1/2 pound of gold would be worth 25 gp 1/2 pound of platinum would be worth 250 gp. etc. That's just how the D&D rules work. tarkin presented an argument contrary to that and so it was (rightly) disputed is all.
Toki_Wartooth 04-27-07, 02:30 PM	Tarkin was right when it comes down to basic economics.But he was wrong in his belief that the rules reflect that here. I agree that it is a horrible rule loop hole that a mithril dagger is cheaper than a normal masterwork one.That's the point: it was a rules loophole. tarkin's argument was that the rules didn't actually allow for such a loophole. I'm guessing that you really agree with everyone else here (i.e. that the loophole should be closed), rather than tarkin (i.e. that there is no spoon...er, loophole).
dragonriderranger 04-28-07, 01:23 AM	some people want to know what the dark wood spear is and its stats :mad:
Forged_Fury 04-28-07, 07:46 AM	some people want to know what the dark wood spear is and its stats :mad: Umm... that's pretty easy. It's a masterwork (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#masterworkWeapons) spear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#spear) made from darkwood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#darkwood). (Not being snarky, the underlined bits are hyperlinks). In essence, it's a spear that weighs half what a normal one does and gives a +1 to hit. -FF
Luis_Dragunov 04-28-07, 10:24 AM	If I was a halfling, I'd pay the 500gp for the mithral dagger, but demand the rest of the pound back!
RavenDrake 04-28-07, 07:14 PM	Actually, the small mithril dagger would cost more than 300gp in one of my games. As it says, all weapons and armour made of Mithril are considered masterwork, which means the masterwork cost is subsumed in the value of the item... that means a small mithril dagger (normally 1/2 pound) is first a masterwork item(+300gp) with 1/2 pounds worth of mithril ( which is worth half the remaining per pound price, which would be .5 x 200gp for 100gp worth). So small mithril dagger would cost 402gp. (Note that price reflects my ruling to consider mithril just like darkwood and price it's "per pound" cost against the original cost of the item. If you choose to price mithrial by Actual Pounds of the finished product then you'd add .25 x 200 or 50gp for the quarter pound of mithril that composes the dagger, for a final total of 352gp).