Darkwood Tower Shield and attack penalty [Archive] - Wizards Community

Darkwood Tower Shield and attack penalty [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ustauk
08-19-05, 08:36 PM From the System Reference Document
When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance.
Since a darkwood tower shield would way half as much, would the attack penalty be reduced at all?
Tony Vargas
08-19-05, 08:50 PM Encumbrance is a broad word. The Darkwood Towershield is just as /big/ as a regular one, so is still encumbering. Darkwood doesn't say anything about reducing attack penalties, either, just Armor Check penalties, so there's little help from a litteralist interpretation. I'd say no, but always ask your DM about these things.

If you are a DM, and trying to make up your mind, you might want to think about the 3.0 Tower Shield, which gave you a /cover/ bonus, that also aplied to your melee attacks against your enemy - that is, the attack penalty you faced for using a Tower Shield was because it was big and got in your way, not because it was heavy. The same logic could be aplied to it's encumbrance in 3.5 giving an attack penalty.
StormCrow42
08-20-05, 12:55 AM Just because it's lighter doesn't mean it's any less bulky to deal with in combat. You're basically holding a 6' door on your arm, that's bound to give you some difficulty.
Algorithm_X
08-20-05, 01:15 AM I would say however it is makes it much more convenient for packing and lugging around. My favorite use for tower shield are bypassing Ranged attack traps. Great for tomb raiding with low monster/high trap ratios.

(another note for tomb raiding without a rogue, adamantine daggers cut through steel/wood/stone like flesh making most locks/doors inadequate)
Tyler Do'Urden
08-20-05, 01:43 AM Plus if you ever find yourself suddenly emersed in water with your tower shield, BAM! Raft.
general.Muse
08-20-05, 01:48 AM Plus if you ever find yourself suddenly emersed in water with your tower shield, BAM! Raft.
Lol.
jaelis
08-20-05, 09:17 AM I still wish there were rules for a mithril tower shield, though. The big disadvanage of the TS is that it is sundered so easily. Mithril would help a lot at higher levels.
bondious
08-21-05, 02:28 PM I still wish there were rules for a mithril tower shield, though. The big disadvanage of the TS is that it is sundered so easily. Mithril would help a lot at higher levels.

I don't see why you can't make a mithral tower shield. The rules in the DMG say that a mithral shield (with no difference to buckler, light, heavy or tower) is +1,000gp. Since most tower shields are made of wood, it could be said that the rules for making them metal would change...so make that +2,000gp instead.

As far as I can tell, the max dex would improve by +2 (becoming +4), the spell failure would be lowered by 10% (becoming 40%) and the armor check would be lowered by -3 (becoming -7)...and the shield would be considered masterworked. It would weigh 22.5 lbs. (if you took half the original wooden tower shield's weight), or maybe add 10-15 lbs to the original weight, calling it metal and weighing 55-60lbs, then take half of that.

Seems pretty simple...though I'm not so sure that a mithral version could be used as a floatation device! :)
jaelis
08-21-05, 02:45 PM Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral.

Shield, Tower: This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are.

By the rules, you can't make a mithril tower shield any more than you can make a mithril large wooden shield. I think it's sensible houserule to allow a mithril tower shield, but iI wouldn't make it as good as you suggest. A heavy steel shield weighs 1.5 times more than a heavy wooden shield, and a mithril heavy shield weighs half as much as a heavy steel shield. So one could guess that a mithril tower shield would weigh 3/4 as much as a wooden tower shield. Since this isn't that much lighter, and it's still very big and clumsy, I'd probably only increase the max dex by 1 and the ACP by -2. Maybe take 5% off the ASF penalty, though it's hard to imagine that ever being relevant. 2000 gp sounds like a reaonable cost.

Anyway, it's not crazy, but I wish there were official rules for it.
Rulebook
08-21-05, 02:47 PM in Races of Stone, they have a Steel tower Shield.

that means, since its made primarily out of metal, you can make it out of Mithral.

sheesh.
jaelis
08-21-05, 02:49 PM Hey, that's good to know. Thanks!
bondious
08-21-05, 03:27 PM By the rules, you can't make a mithril tower shield any more than you can make a mithril large wooden shield. I think it's sensible houserule to allow a mithril tower shield, but iI wouldn't make it as good as you suggest. A heavy steel shield weighs 1.5 times more than a heavy wooden shield, and a mithril heavy shield weighs half as much as a heavy steel shield. So one could guess that a mithril tower shield would weigh 3/4 as much as a wooden tower shield. Since this isn't that much lighter, and it's still very big and clumsy, I'd probably only increase the max dex by 1 and the ACP by -2. Maybe take 5% off the ASF penalty, though it's hard to imagine that ever being relevant. 2000 gp sounds like a reaonable cost.

Anyway, it's not crazy, but I wish there were official rules for it.

"We don't need no stinkin' Official Rules!" We can do this, jaelis!

By your formula above, if this was the way we were going to attempt to construct this steel tower shield, I come to the total weight of a mithral tower shield to be just under 40 lbs...5 lbs or so lighter than a standard 45 lbs wooden tower shield.

45 lbs times 1.75 = 78.75 lbs, and then divided by half (since mithral objects are half their original, metal weight) would equal 39.375 lbs...about 5.5 lbs lighter than the regular wooden tower shield. From this I would apply the regular benefits of a mithral shield, and add either 1,500gp or 2,000gp to the price, instead of merely 1,000gp.

NOW I wish I had the Races of Stone book, to look that steel tower shield up (along with some other cool stuff), but alas... :raincloud
StormCrow42
08-21-05, 05:29 PM And if you consult Races of the Wild you'll find the cost and stats for a mithril tower shield (and for that matter, most mithril armor).
jaelis
08-21-05, 05:36 PM You mean those darn supplements actually have something besides prestige classes? Who would have guessed :D
bondious
08-21-05, 05:54 PM And if you consult Races of the Wild you'll find the cost and stats for a mithril tower shield (and for that matter, most mithril armor).

I'm curious then, since I have neither of those books, if you could maybe post the stats for the Steel Tower Shield and the Mithral Tower Shield...if you've got the matterial/time, that is. I'd appreciate it, and would like to complare the Official examples to what I've engineered on my own.

Many thanks! :ayyyy!:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ustauk 08-19-05, 08:36 PM	From the System Reference Document When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance. Since a darkwood tower shield would way half as much, would the attack penalty be reduced at all?
Tony Vargas 08-19-05, 08:50 PM	Encumbrance is a broad word. The Darkwood Towershield is just as /big/ as a regular one, so is still encumbering. Darkwood doesn't say anything about reducing attack penalties, either, just Armor Check penalties, so there's little help from a litteralist interpretation. I'd say no, but always ask your DM about these things. If you are a DM, and trying to make up your mind, you might want to think about the 3.0 Tower Shield, which gave you a /cover/ bonus, that also aplied to your melee attacks against your enemy - that is, the attack penalty you faced for using a Tower Shield was because it was big and got in your way, not because it was heavy. The same logic could be aplied to it's encumbrance in 3.5 giving an attack penalty.
StormCrow42 08-20-05, 12:55 AM	Just because it's lighter doesn't mean it's any less bulky to deal with in combat. You're basically holding a 6' door on your arm, that's bound to give you some difficulty.
Algorithm_X 08-20-05, 01:15 AM	I would say however it is makes it much more convenient for packing and lugging around. My favorite use for tower shield are bypassing Ranged attack traps. Great for tomb raiding with low monster/high trap ratios. (another note for tomb raiding without a rogue, adamantine daggers cut through steel/wood/stone like flesh making most locks/doors inadequate)
Tyler Do'Urden 08-20-05, 01:43 AM	Plus if you ever find yourself suddenly emersed in water with your tower shield, BAM! Raft.
general.Muse 08-20-05, 01:48 AM	Plus if you ever find yourself suddenly emersed in water with your tower shield, BAM! Raft. Lol.
jaelis 08-20-05, 09:17 AM	I still wish there were rules for a mithril tower shield, though. The big disadvanage of the TS is that it is sundered so easily. Mithril would help a lot at higher levels.
bondious 08-21-05, 02:28 PM	I still wish there were rules for a mithril tower shield, though. The big disadvanage of the TS is that it is sundered so easily. Mithril would help a lot at higher levels. I don't see why you can't make a mithral tower shield. The rules in the DMG say that a mithral shield (with no difference to buckler, light, heavy or tower) is +1,000gp. Since most tower shields are made of wood, it could be said that the rules for making them metal would change...so make that +2,000gp instead. As far as I can tell, the max dex would improve by +2 (becoming +4), the spell failure would be lowered by 10% (becoming 40%) and the armor check would be lowered by -3 (becoming -7)...and the shield would be considered masterworked. It would weigh 22.5 lbs. (if you took half the original wooden tower shield's weight), or maybe add 10-15 lbs to the original weight, calling it metal and weighing 55-60lbs, then take half of that. Seems pretty simple...though I'm not so sure that a mithral version could be used as a floatation device! :)
jaelis 08-21-05, 02:45 PM	Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. Shield, Tower: This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. By the rules, you can't make a mithril tower shield any more than you can make a mithril large wooden shield. I think it's sensible houserule to allow a mithril tower shield, but iI wouldn't make it as good as you suggest. A heavy steel shield weighs 1.5 times more than a heavy wooden shield, and a mithril heavy shield weighs half as much as a heavy steel shield. So one could guess that a mithril tower shield would weigh 3/4 as much as a wooden tower shield. Since this isn't that much lighter, and it's still very big and clumsy, I'd probably only increase the max dex by 1 and the ACP by -2. Maybe take 5% off the ASF penalty, though it's hard to imagine that ever being relevant. 2000 gp sounds like a reaonable cost. Anyway, it's not crazy, but I wish there were official rules for it.
Rulebook 08-21-05, 02:47 PM	in Races of Stone, they have a Steel tower Shield. that means, since its made primarily out of metal, you can make it out of Mithral. sheesh.
jaelis 08-21-05, 02:49 PM	Hey, that's good to know. Thanks!
bondious 08-21-05, 03:27 PM	By the rules, you can't make a mithril tower shield any more than you can make a mithril large wooden shield. I think it's sensible houserule to allow a mithril tower shield, but iI wouldn't make it as good as you suggest. A heavy steel shield weighs 1.5 times more than a heavy wooden shield, and a mithril heavy shield weighs half as much as a heavy steel shield. So one could guess that a mithril tower shield would weigh 3/4 as much as a wooden tower shield. Since this isn't that much lighter, and it's still very big and clumsy, I'd probably only increase the max dex by 1 and the ACP by -2. Maybe take 5% off the ASF penalty, though it's hard to imagine that ever being relevant. 2000 gp sounds like a reaonable cost. Anyway, it's not crazy, but I wish there were official rules for it. "We don't need no stinkin' Official Rules!" We can do this, jaelis! By your formula above, if this was the way we were going to attempt to construct this steel tower shield, I come to the total weight of a mithral tower shield to be just under 40 lbs...5 lbs or so lighter than a standard 45 lbs wooden tower shield. 45 lbs times 1.75 = 78.75 lbs, and then divided by half (since mithral objects are half their original, metal weight) would equal 39.375 lbs...about 5.5 lbs lighter than the regular wooden tower shield. From this I would apply the regular benefits of a mithral shield, and add either 1,500gp or 2,000gp to the price, instead of merely 1,000gp. NOW I wish I had the Races of Stone book, to look that steel tower shield up (along with some other cool stuff), but alas... :raincloud
StormCrow42 08-21-05, 05:29 PM	And if you consult Races of the Wild you'll find the cost and stats for a mithril tower shield (and for that matter, most mithril armor).
jaelis 08-21-05, 05:36 PM	You mean those darn supplements actually have something besides prestige classes? Who would have guessed :D
bondious 08-21-05, 05:54 PM	And if you consult Races of the Wild you'll find the cost and stats for a mithril tower shield (and for that matter, most mithril armor). I'm curious then, since I have neither of those books, if you could maybe post the stats for the Steel Tower Shield and the Mithral Tower Shield...if you've got the matterial/time, that is. I'd appreciate it, and would like to complare the Official examples to what I've engineered on my own. Many thanks! :ayyyy!: