Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trench_Raider 04-13-05, 06:24 PM	Ok, speaking of hand thrown missles. lets discuss one of my all time favorites (from a historical standpoint as in game they are an awful weapon): darts. Can anyone tell me why on earth darts have a shorter range bracket (20 feet) than javelins and spears (30 feet)? :confused: Now before you answer this, let me point out that ancient/medieval darts (as used by the Later Romans and Byzantines...which I'm assuming D&D darts are similar to) as not the tiny little "pub darts" that many of you probably assume them to be. These things were largish lead weighted weapons about the size and shape of a modern lawn dart. (or about a foot long) At least in Roman serive they were often employed in a similar manner in that they were tossed in a steep arc to plunge into enemy formations and wound heads and shoulders. In every wargame ruleset that makes a distinction between hand thrown missles, darts outrange javelins and spears by quite a bit. The old Wargame Research Group Ancient rules, and by extension their current form of "Warrior", (said company priding itself on historical accuracy) gives javelins and light spears a 40 pace range, while darts can be thrown 80 paces. So I ask again, why do javelins and spears outrange darts? "Trench Raider"
Tony Vargas 04-13-05, 06:41 PM	Spears have a range of 20' - so it's just the javelins that are out-ranging the darts. As to why, I couldn't say, precisely. I've reverse-engineered a lot of the weapons tables, and there does seem to be a method to the madness in most cases, but throwable and throwing weapons aren't too consistent. There's no indication, for instance, if a dart is a 'light' weapon or a javelin 'one-handed,' for instance, so it's hard to judge how tough they should be compared to eachother. You could assume from the way the one-handed martial weapons compare that point of averaged damage is valued the same as a 10' range increment - but, by that standard, the shortspear is the equal of a martial weapon, and, so's the dagger, for that matter. You could look at the javelin as being comparable to a shortspear, but giving up useability in melee for a longer range. :shrug:
Cathon 04-13-05, 09:42 PM	Well, it might be based on accuracy differences, there is a difference between volley shots in warfare, and pincushioning a single enemy at distance. Do darts hold spin as well as javelins? But probably it is some weird balance issue.
Trench_Raider 04-13-05, 09:47 PM	Do darts hold spin as well as javelins? Probably better as they have flights like arrows. "Trench Raider"
Trench_Raider 04-13-05, 10:08 PM	I should have posted this with the original post, but here is a picture I found on a reenactor web site of a Roman dart being thrown. http://www.fectio.org.uk/groep/2003pos23.jpg And here is an actual relic dart. Note that this is just the front half. The wooden shaft and the flights have obviously long since rotted away. http://www.rom-museum.de/Grafik/42k.jpg Hope that helps in visualizing what these things look like. "Trench Raider"
primemover003 04-13-05, 10:22 PM	Those are soooo awesome... I remember actually playing with pointy lawn darts before the BAN :( From the way he's throwing that I'm gonna say you could probably get a javelin to go a wee bit farther. An overhand toss like that can get it some loft but he's only using the strength of his arm. A Javelin on the other hand is using both your arm, shoulder and your hips. You're getting a good deal more torque out of it. But I'm no expert, YMMV.
Andrew_980 04-14-05, 04:44 AM	well, it depends on wether D+D counted on the dart being used as a small javelin (thrown the same way) or as a weighted lawn dart (sort of flipped when thrown) a good high arch on a lawn dart can give awsome distance, but at what accuracy