Dastana +1 [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Dastana +1 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
eternus
08-31-04, 03:28 PM I have an existing post in the Psionics forum talking about a build I am doing of a Psionicist. Anyway, I had put that my equipment choice was as follows:

Mithral Chain Shirt +1 (mithral cancels out the non-proficient penalty)
Buckler +1 (MW cancels out the non-proficient penalty)
Dastana +1 (MW cancels out the non-proficient penalty)

The Dastana is from the Arms & Equipment and it states specifically that it can be worn with a chain shirt (there is a limited number of armors that it can be worn with), and it can all co-exist with a shield. They are not vague in saying that the effects all stack. So, a class w/ no armor proficiencies could wear the above combo for a +9 to AC with no penalties... as I understand the rules.

I got a response saying that the dastana enhancement bonus will not stack with the shield. I'm not really sure how that can be claimed, as an 'enhancement bonus' is untyped beyond that, so a +1 enhancement from a dastana is no different than a +1 enhancement bonus on a chain shirt. Thus, all 3 would stack.

Am I wrong, is there something I am missing here? Or is the poster possibly just confused?
Elgonn
08-31-04, 03:34 PM All legal. Although being able to double stack enhancement bonuses because you get to have 2 different armor bonuses probably isn't what was intended.
Bantam
08-31-04, 05:25 PM It's just that the Arms and Equipment Guide uses 3.0 rules. So Armor and shields back then both give armor bonuses to defense that stack. The same is said for dastanas but only with certain light armor.

If you're using 3.0 edition, then yea you're fine.

If you're using 3.5 edition, then you should get your GM to make a ruling if the dastana gives a shield or armor bonus. If shield bonus, its AC bonus wouldn't stack with your shield. If it's a stackable (with certain armor) armor bonus, then you're fine. I personally would rule that a dastana is limited in how many magical enhancements it can have in order to balance it out. Like maybe a +5 limit instead of the normal +10 limit.
Shadowfax7
08-31-04, 06:28 PM I would also not allow the Dastana bonus to stack if worn on the forearm of the shield arm.

Also, I believe the Dastana is supposed to work as a shield, meaning you wield your weapon in one hand and parry with the Dastana as a shield, but the game rules don't support this fact.
Elgonn
08-31-04, 06:30 PM Dastana isn't meant to be a shield at all. It is meant to be "more" armor. Kinda like piecemail. A more updated version of Dastana would probably make it an armor add-on like spikes, etc..
Shadowfax7
08-31-04, 06:37 PM Actually the historical Dastana was used as a shield by Indians (from India) . . . but I can see how game rulewise it is not used that way.

Either way, whether used as a shield or not, why would it provide add'l armor/shield bonus if covered by the shield held in the hand and strapped to the forearm which has the dastana on it.
eternus
08-31-04, 06:42 PM Since it says in the description that it stacks with shield and armor, I figured it to be an extension to armor and have nothing to do with shielding. You aren't using it to deflect things so much as having more protection on your body.

If I were defining it in my own campaign, I would identify it as a piece of armor. I am a bit uncertain about adding an magical bonuses because of the ability ot wear a chain shirt +5, a dastana +5, and a buckler +5 on a character with no armor proficiency and giving them a +21 to AC. I think the trade-off is that you lose your wrist slots, so no bracers of Armor for you, or any other bracer... at least I would block bracers if wearing dastanas.
bjorntfh
08-31-04, 06:48 PM Read the OA FAQ (where the Datsana is form originally.) The enhancement bonuses from Dastanas do not stack with those from the base shirt. The same goes for Char-anas.
Elgonn
08-31-04, 06:48 PM A&EG actually has the updated Dastana. The original was in OA. Not only could you use Dastana you could also use Chahar-aina (breastplate addition rather than bracer). The original Dastana worked with any armor and only the Chahar-aina was restricted to Padded, Leather, Chain Shirt.

Strangely enough I'm pretty sure the oriental version of the Dastana was used as a shield and was called something different (Kite or something).
Tony Vargas
09-01-04, 12:45 PM It sounds like piecemeal armor. When you add the dastana to the chain shirt, you've effectively created a new suit of armor with a +5 armor bonus. You can add enhancement on top of that, I'd think, by enhancing the whole suit, though, technically, I suppose you could enhance one or the other. In any case, enhancing both sepparately shouldn't cause the /enhancement/ bonuses to stack.

As an aside, the fact that you can pull this, and have, in effect, a +5 armor bonus suit of light armor with no check penalty is broken, in itself. You're getting something better than the mithral breastplate, for the cost of light mithral armor, plus a little extra for the masterwork dastana. But then, a lot of the stuff in the A&EG is poorly balanced. As a DM, I would be very selective about including any content from the A&EG in my game.
Aramas
09-01-04, 12:59 PM In our games, we rule that dastana provide a shield bonus to AC. Dastana occupy the wrist or bracers slot as far as the limit on number of magic items you can wear goes. The dastana can be enhanced as shields, but of course don't stack with a shield. The slight advantages the dastana have over a buckler are offset by the fact that it takes a magic item slot, and it can only be worn with certain armors.
Wolf72
09-01-04, 04:29 PM according to the OA issue of Dragon (still 3.0) the basic armor bonus stacked not the enhancement bonus (as said above).

+3 Dastana of Fire Resistance/5

+1 Buckler

+2 Chain shirt

would have an AC of 19 [10 +4 (Chain shirt) +1 (Buckler) +4 (+3 Dastana)]
eternus
09-01-04, 07:39 PM That makes sense wolf, and I guess its what the poster on the other forum was talking about. He swore that you couldn't stack the enhancement bonus, but didn't have a reason or a rule, or an alternative. I will buy that a Dastana +3 would negate the bonus on a +1 chain shirt... but I don't see why it would negate the bonus on a shield, or vice versa. Either let a Dastana be shield related or armor related, but don't make it cancel both.

Either way... the Dastana is becoming less appealing to me for the loss of a wrist slot. I have another couple weeks to solidify, hopefully I will hit lvl 9 tomorrow so that I can swap classes. (c:
The Legendary Two Sandals
09-24-04, 03:31 PM earlier when you said with no penalties, i belive there still would be some arcane spell failer. but since your psionic it dosent matter.
Wolf72
09-24-04, 09:48 PM earlier when you said with no penalties, i belive there still would be some arcane spell failer. but since your psionic it dosent matter.

arcane spell failure does stack btw ... and adds up pretty quick unless you're using mithral.
Edymnion
09-24-04, 10:39 PM Yeah, more or less been said already, but I'll say it again.
Dastana are essentially a way to increase the AC bonus of your base armor by +1. The real benefit of Dastana isn't that you can double stack your armor, but that it gives you an extra slot for armor enchantments. All those enchaments that cost you plusses, you can split them up between the armor and the dastana for an overall lower price.
Nazzareth
09-25-04, 06:19 PM There is nothing stoping you getting your dastana enchanted as bracers later on.

As all ready stated In both 3.0 and 3.5 the dastana's enhancement bonuses do not stack with the base armour's enhancement bonus.

Mithral chain, Mithral dastana and Mithral Char-ana is a great combo for any fighter\mage types with only an ASF of 10% which can be negated with one level of spell sword or 2 levels of rage mage or the twilight enhancement.
Sensei Gith
09-25-04, 11:34 PM The most balanced solution is just to ditch dastana. Whether or not specific components are included is a matter for flavor text.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eternus 08-31-04, 03:28 PM	I have an existing post in the Psionics forum talking about a build I am doing of a Psionicist. Anyway, I had put that my equipment choice was as follows: Mithral Chain Shirt +1 (mithral cancels out the non-proficient penalty) Buckler +1 (MW cancels out the non-proficient penalty) Dastana +1 (MW cancels out the non-proficient penalty) The Dastana is from the Arms & Equipment and it states specifically that it can be worn with a chain shirt (there is a limited number of armors that it can be worn with), and it can all co-exist with a shield. They are not vague in saying that the effects all stack. So, a class w/ no armor proficiencies could wear the above combo for a +9 to AC with no penalties... as I understand the rules. I got a response saying that the dastana enhancement bonus will not stack with the shield. I'm not really sure how that can be claimed, as an 'enhancement bonus' is untyped beyond that, so a +1 enhancement from a dastana is no different than a +1 enhancement bonus on a chain shirt. Thus, all 3 would stack. Am I wrong, is there something I am missing here? Or is the poster possibly just confused?
Elgonn 08-31-04, 03:34 PM	All legal. Although being able to double stack enhancement bonuses because you get to have 2 different armor bonuses probably isn't what was intended.
Bantam 08-31-04, 05:25 PM	It's just that the Arms and Equipment Guide uses 3.0 rules. So Armor and shields back then both give armor bonuses to defense that stack. The same is said for dastanas but only with certain light armor. If you're using 3.0 edition, then yea you're fine. If you're using 3.5 edition, then you should get your GM to make a ruling if the dastana gives a shield or armor bonus. If shield bonus, its AC bonus wouldn't stack with your shield. If it's a stackable (with certain armor) armor bonus, then you're fine. I personally would rule that a dastana is limited in how many magical enhancements it can have in order to balance it out. Like maybe a +5 limit instead of the normal +10 limit.
Shadowfax7 08-31-04, 06:28 PM	I would also not allow the Dastana bonus to stack if worn on the forearm of the shield arm. Also, I believe the Dastana is supposed to work as a shield, meaning you wield your weapon in one hand and parry with the Dastana as a shield, but the game rules don't support this fact.
Elgonn 08-31-04, 06:30 PM	Dastana isn't meant to be a shield at all. It is meant to be "more" armor. Kinda like piecemail. A more updated version of Dastana would probably make it an armor add-on like spikes, etc..
Shadowfax7 08-31-04, 06:37 PM	Actually the historical Dastana was used as a shield by Indians (from India) . . . but I can see how game rulewise it is not used that way. Either way, whether used as a shield or not, why would it provide add'l armor/shield bonus if covered by the shield held in the hand and strapped to the forearm which has the dastana on it.
eternus 08-31-04, 06:42 PM	Since it says in the description that it stacks with shield and armor, I figured it to be an extension to armor and have nothing to do with shielding. You aren't using it to deflect things so much as having more protection on your body. If I were defining it in my own campaign, I would identify it as a piece of armor. I am a bit uncertain about adding an magical bonuses because of the ability ot wear a chain shirt +5, a dastana +5, and a buckler +5 on a character with no armor proficiency and giving them a +21 to AC. I think the trade-off is that you lose your wrist slots, so no bracers of Armor for you, or any other bracer... at least I would block bracers if wearing dastanas.
bjorntfh 08-31-04, 06:48 PM	Read the OA FAQ (where the Datsana is form originally.) The enhancement bonuses from Dastanas do not stack with those from the base shirt. The same goes for Char-anas.
Elgonn 08-31-04, 06:48 PM	A&EG actually has the updated Dastana. The original was in OA. Not only could you use Dastana you could also use Chahar-aina (breastplate addition rather than bracer). The original Dastana worked with any armor and only the Chahar-aina was restricted to Padded, Leather, Chain Shirt. Strangely enough I'm pretty sure the oriental version of the Dastana was used as a shield and was called something different (Kite or something).
Tony Vargas 09-01-04, 12:45 PM	It sounds like piecemeal armor. When you add the dastana to the chain shirt, you've effectively created a new suit of armor with a +5 armor bonus. You can add enhancement on top of that, I'd think, by enhancing the whole suit, though, technically, I suppose you could enhance one or the other. In any case, enhancing both sepparately shouldn't cause the /enhancement/ bonuses to stack. As an aside, the fact that you can pull this, and have, in effect, a +5 armor bonus suit of light armor with no check penalty is broken, in itself. You're getting something better than the mithral breastplate, for the cost of light mithral armor, plus a little extra for the masterwork dastana. But then, a lot of the stuff in the A&EG is poorly balanced. As a DM, I would be very selective about including any content from the A&EG in my game.
Aramas 09-01-04, 12:59 PM	In our games, we rule that dastana provide a shield bonus to AC. Dastana occupy the wrist or bracers slot as far as the limit on number of magic items you can wear goes. The dastana can be enhanced as shields, but of course don't stack with a shield. The slight advantages the dastana have over a buckler are offset by the fact that it takes a magic item slot, and it can only be worn with certain armors.
Wolf72 09-01-04, 04:29 PM	according to the OA issue of Dragon (still 3.0) the basic armor bonus stacked not the enhancement bonus (as said above). +3 Dastana of Fire Resistance/5 +1 Buckler +2 Chain shirt would have an AC of 19 [10 +4 (Chain shirt) +1 (Buckler) +4 (+3 Dastana)]
eternus 09-01-04, 07:39 PM	That makes sense wolf, and I guess its what the poster on the other forum was talking about. He swore that you couldn't stack the enhancement bonus, but didn't have a reason or a rule, or an alternative. I will buy that a Dastana +3 would negate the bonus on a +1 chain shirt... but I don't see why it would negate the bonus on a shield, or vice versa. Either let a Dastana be shield related or armor related, but don't make it cancel both. Either way... the Dastana is becoming less appealing to me for the loss of a wrist slot. I have another couple weeks to solidify, hopefully I will hit lvl 9 tomorrow so that I can swap classes. (c:
The Legendary Two Sandals 09-24-04, 03:31 PM	earlier when you said with no penalties, i belive there still would be some arcane spell failer. but since your psionic it dosent matter.
Wolf72 09-24-04, 09:48 PM	earlier when you said with no penalties, i belive there still would be some arcane spell failer. but since your psionic it dosent matter. arcane spell failure does stack btw ... and adds up pretty quick unless you're using mithral.
Edymnion 09-24-04, 10:39 PM	Yeah, more or less been said already, but I'll say it again. Dastana are essentially a way to increase the AC bonus of your base armor by +1. The real benefit of Dastana isn't that you can double stack your armor, but that it gives you an extra slot for armor enchantments. All those enchaments that cost you plusses, you can split them up between the armor and the dastana for an overall lower price.
Nazzareth 09-25-04, 06:19 PM	There is nothing stoping you getting your dastana enchanted as bracers later on. As all ready stated In both 3.0 and 3.5 the dastana's enhancement bonuses do not stack with the base armour's enhancement bonus. Mithral chain, Mithral dastana and Mithral Char-ana is a great combo for any fighter\mage types with only an ASF of 10% which can be negated with one level of spell sword or 2 levels of rage mage or the twilight enhancement.
Sensei Gith 09-25-04, 11:34 PM	The most balanced solution is just to ditch dastana. Whether or not specific components are included is a matter for flavor text.