Post/Author/DateTime	Post
johniemi 03-20-06, 08:41 AM	Just a hypothetical situation... The players are high-level and are sleeping in the woods. The half-orc with low spot and listen is at the watch. A group of villains (rogues), who are so much lower in level that they have to sneak in to snuff the players, is moving silently towards the PC's... The half-orc barbarian does not spot or hear the rogues coming until one of them is very close to him, but unfortunately the other rogues have already sneaked next to the sleeping PC's and are starting to coup de grace them and the half-orc cannot react in time to wake up the PC's. Can I give the sleeping PC's a listen check while the rogues are next to them so that the rogue is limited to a surprise round only (partial action) and could not do coup de grace (full-round)? If you would allow a listen check, what would be the DC? Rogue's move silently + 10? Rogue's move silently + 20? Something else?
Free1983 03-20-06, 09:01 AM	I'm glad this question came up, because in our group we don't have an appropriate answer either. Until now we houserule these situations. Rogues roll move silently. This number becomes the DC for a fortitude save, but if the players make the safe they stay asleep. This rule is far from perfect (higher characters stay a sleep a lot easier), but so far we haven't had any problems. I'm eager to adopt a better rule. cheers
Suin Bahhar 03-20-06, 09:06 AM	Sleeping characters get -10 on their listen checks. The dc for listening the rogue stays the same i.e. the check the dm rolled d20 + move silently skill modifier. The sleeping charcter gets to roll d20 + listen skill modifier - 10 .
Enaloindir 03-20-06, 09:30 AM	You can also give the PCs a chance to wake up when they perform a coup de grace by adapting the sniping rules a bit: Let the rogues start their coup de grace during the surprise round (you can split up a full round action over two consecutive standard actions). Have each rogue roll a move silently check, with a -20 penalty (same as sniping and trying to remain hidden). Have all players and rogues roll initiative. According to initiative count, have the rogues complete their coup de grace, or grant the players listen checks (with a -10 penalty because they are asleep). If a PC beats the Move Silently results for one of the rogues, he wakes up just in time; the coup de grace on that PC still deals normal damage (critical), but does not force the Fortitude save to remain alive. PCs who wake up can perform as normal. Proceed down the initiative line. That's how we ruled it... Enaloindir
johniemi 03-21-06, 04:25 AM	Sleeping characters get -10 on their listen checks. The dc for listening the rogue stays the same i.e. the check the dm rolled d20 + move silently skill modifier. The sleeping charcter gets to roll d20 + listen skill modifier - 10 . This seems like the easiest way. Is this an official ruling? I don't know what you guys think but I would only give a sleeping char an automatic listen check (at -10) only when they are directly approached, in other words, if the bad guys are just randomly attacking the group as a whole, only the one who is awake and keeps watch is allowed a listen & spot check but if the sleeping players are directly and personally attacked, such as sneaking up to get a coup de grace, then the sleeping player gets to listen at -10 penalty. AND when he gets the check, it is only when the sneaking bad guy is very close to him (DM's call; what is "close" and what's not) That's how I figured it... -John
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-21-06, 04:34 AM	This seems like the easiest way. Is this an official ruling? I don't know what you guys think but I would only give a sleeping char an automatic listen check (at -10) only when they are directly approached, in other words, if the bad guys are just randomly attacking the group as a whole, only the one who is awake and keeps watch is allowed a listen & spot check but if the sleeping players are directly and personally attacked, such as sneaking up to get a coup de grace, then the sleeping player gets to listen at -10 penalty. AND when he gets the check, it is only when the sneaking bad guy is very close to him (DM's call; what is "close" and what's not) That's how I figured it... -John A sleeping character may make Listen checks at a -10 penalty. A successful check awakens the sleeper. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/listen.htm) It's also in the PHB under the Listen skill. Doesn't get much more official than that.
johniemi 03-21-06, 04:48 AM	It's also in the PHB under the Listen skill. Doesn't get much more official than that. Thanks... I guess I should've read more rules before asking :cool:
Thelon Fairblade 03-21-06, 08:50 AM	Also, keep in mind that there is a distance penalty for Listening. -1 per 10' feet, I think. Additionally, there are some really easy things to hear; combat is DC0, for example, as is spellcasting. One rule that I use is every character (and NPC!) is always "Taking 0". No, that's not a typo, that's a zero. Meaning your average guard (Alertness *or* WIS 14; no ranks of listen) is going to hear a spell or combat up to 20' away without even trying. Likewise, the rogue, ranger, monk, or barbarian might (level 10 = 13 ranks of Listen) hear their buddy being killed in the adjacent tent, even if they are asleep (-10). Of course, when the assassin comes into *their* tent, the "Take 0" gets replaced by an actual Listen check, as the situation has just become much more dangerous....