Death attack question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Death attack question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
festerday
11-28-06, 06:23 PM Could an Assassin study his victim from the ethereal plane?
What do you think?
:rolleyes:
jaelis
11-28-06, 10:40 PM The DMG says an ethereal observer can see the material plane "as though viewing it through distorted and frosted glass." It's totally a DM call, but I would say the assassin needs to see the target better than that to "study" him. So I'd probably say no.
Vegepygmy
11-28-06, 11:32 PM I'd say yes.
Plothos
11-29-06, 02:23 AM I'd also say 'yes'.
IMO, the point of the 3 rounds, game mechanically speaking, is so you can't do them too frequently and you can't just run up and do it. It's to slow the process down.
IMO, the point of the 3 rounds, conceptually speaking, is you have to get a sense of how the guy's moving and when he leaves himself particularly vulnerable to the fatal stroke. It's not about seeing his appendix scar or anything. Really fine detail doesn't seem necessary for this sort of observation.
That's just my own take on it, but that's how I read things.
festerday
11-29-06, 09:59 AM Thank you guys, any other consideration is welcome.
:)
tarkin
11-29-06, 01:41 PM Death attack is a variation of Sneak Attack.

That means:

1) you must be within 30 ft (It is a special variety of Sneak Attack).

2) "The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. "

Also, the point of the 3 rounds was two fold:

1) Game Balance: To give the victim time to spot the assasin and realize what is going on and screw with his concentration, disrupting the attack. It specifically says " While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy."

2) Logic: To give the assasin time enough to find just the right spot to hit and to take it.

Now, it does not say you can't be invisible, so obviously, the chance to detect need not be easy, but I think it was intendended to be part of the balancing factor.

But I think that unless you have reason not to, the rules for Sneak Attack, should be applied to the Death Attack studing, as well as to the actual attack action.

-----------

For these reasons, I would expect:

Strict Game or Loose: No way, must be able to see them clearly, and must be within 30ft. Being on the ethereal plane violates BOTH of those restrictions.

Power Game: You can study while on the ethereal plane, but must move to the material plane before making the actual attack.

Anything Goes game: You can do it all from the ethereal plane.
mvincent
11-29-06, 01:52 PM I would generally say no (due to the above mentioned fuzziness), but since it appears that an assassin could just as well study his target via scrying (then teleport in and finish him off), it doesn't appear unbalancing to allow it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
festerday 11-28-06, 06:23 PM	Could an Assassin study his victim from the ethereal plane? What do you think? :rolleyes:
jaelis 11-28-06, 10:40 PM	The DMG says an ethereal observer can see the material plane "as though viewing it through distorted and frosted glass." It's totally a DM call, but I would say the assassin needs to see the target better than that to "study" him. So I'd probably say no.
Vegepygmy 11-28-06, 11:32 PM	I'd say yes.
Plothos 11-29-06, 02:23 AM	I'd also say 'yes'. IMO, the point of the 3 rounds, game mechanically speaking, is so you can't do them too frequently and you can't just run up and do it. It's to slow the process down. IMO, the point of the 3 rounds, conceptually speaking, is you have to get a sense of how the guy's moving and when he leaves himself particularly vulnerable to the fatal stroke. It's not about seeing his appendix scar or anything. Really fine detail doesn't seem necessary for this sort of observation. That's just my own take on it, but that's how I read things.
festerday 11-29-06, 09:59 AM	Thank you guys, any other consideration is welcome. :)
tarkin 11-29-06, 01:41 PM	Death attack is a variation of Sneak Attack. That means: 1) you must be within 30 ft (It is a special variety of Sneak Attack). 2) "The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. " Also, the point of the 3 rounds was two fold: 1) Game Balance: To give the victim time to spot the assasin and realize what is going on and screw with his concentration, disrupting the attack. It specifically says " While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy." 2) Logic: To give the assasin time enough to find just the right spot to hit and to take it. Now, it does not say you can't be invisible, so obviously, the chance to detect need not be easy, but I think it was intendended to be part of the balancing factor. But I think that unless you have reason not to, the rules for Sneak Attack, should be applied to the Death Attack studing, as well as to the actual attack action. ----------- For these reasons, I would expect: Strict Game or Loose: No way, must be able to see them clearly, and must be within 30ft. Being on the ethereal plane violates BOTH of those restrictions. Power Game: You can study while on the ethereal plane, but must move to the material plane before making the actual attack. Anything Goes game: You can do it all from the ethereal plane.
mvincent 11-29-06, 01:52 PM	I would generally say no (due to the above mentioned fuzziness), but since it appears that an assassin could just as well study his target via scrying (then teleport in and finish him off), it doesn't appear unbalancing to allow it.