Death from above! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Death from above! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Keenath
03-09-05, 11:12 AM I'm playing a Barbarian Shifter with cliffwalk (which gives me a climb speed) in my next campaign. Does anyone have ideas on tactics or feats that could allow me to synergize my climbing abilities with my combat abilities?

Would dropping from above be considered a modified charge? I tend to think it would not, since the "Acrobatic charge" class ability of the Thief-Acrobat and Dread Pirate (from Complete Adventurer) explicitly declares that you MAY drop down as a charge (among many other situations) with the ability. The fact that it specifically allows it WITH the ability suggests that it is not allowed without the ability.

If I can't use dropping down as an attack-charge, what about a Bull Rush? Trip? Overrun? Any ideas?
bjorntfh
03-09-05, 11:23 AM Personally, I just add the falling damage+weight damage to all falling attacks. Mind you: you take the same damage so you need to balance out how much you can take and deal at the same time.
Kintara
03-09-05, 12:23 PM This won't work as well, since you're Medium size, but I had an idea for an Ape Totem Gnome Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana), where he would use the Giantbane tactical feat from Complete Warrior to Climb Aboard big creatures. If you take Close Quarters Fighting and keep your Climb check maxed out, you'll be practically impossible to dislodge. The only trouble is that it will only work on Huge and larger creatures for you.
Keenath
03-09-05, 01:48 PM Yeah, Giantbane isn't really what I'm looking for.

I'm more looking for what you would call it if I leap of a wall and bodily crash into my enemy. A charging Trip would probably work, if I drop at least ten feet, as would a charging grapple (can you even DO that? I see no reason I couldn't...)

I think Trip is probably more appropriate, since both provoke AOOs, but a grapple attempt immediately stops if you're hit, where a Trip attempt doesn't.
bjorntfh
03-09-05, 01:51 PM Take improved grapple. No AoO, thus you just need to grab him.
Keenath
03-09-05, 01:56 PM That's not the point. A grapple, by nature stops if you get hit while initiating it. That means it probably isn't the right thing for this case, where I'm coming down at high speed and smashing into the opponent -- even if I get hit, it isn't enough to stop my momentum!
bjorntfh
03-09-05, 02:06 PM Right, but initiating a grapple with Improved grapple doesn't provoke an AoO, so you won't take a hit. Since you're moving at them unless they've got reach, they won't get an AoO and the grapple isn't declared till you get in threatening range, so the AoO from movement doesn't apply to a grapple.

That clarify things?
Zym
03-09-05, 02:37 PM Battlejump from UE is nice for such.

Leap Attack from CV possibly, and Raptor School from CW as well.

Also see the recent FAQ regarding Jumping and Charging, its quite possible.
Keenath
03-09-05, 04:45 PM No, Bjorn, I understand what you're saying. But the feat means you've had extra training to prevent the other guy from getting in a shot before you grab him. Grapples, by their nature, are still stopped by AOO damage. That means it isn't the right thing to use for leaping down onto somebody, because -- as I said -- no matter how much training I've had, no weapon impact is going to be enough to throw me off target when I'm leaping bodily onto somebody.

The question is not whether a feat can make it possible, the question is "What mechanic fits in this situation?", and Trip makes a better fit than Grapple.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Keenath 03-09-05, 11:12 AM	I'm playing a Barbarian Shifter with cliffwalk (which gives me a climb speed) in my next campaign. Does anyone have ideas on tactics or feats that could allow me to synergize my climbing abilities with my combat abilities? Would dropping from above be considered a modified charge? I tend to think it would not, since the "Acrobatic charge" class ability of the Thief-Acrobat and Dread Pirate (from Complete Adventurer) explicitly declares that you MAY drop down as a charge (among many other situations) with the ability. The fact that it specifically allows it WITH the ability suggests that it is not allowed without the ability. If I can't use dropping down as an attack-charge, what about a Bull Rush? Trip? Overrun? Any ideas?
bjorntfh 03-09-05, 11:23 AM	Personally, I just add the falling damage+weight damage to all falling attacks. Mind you: you take the same damage so you need to balance out how much you can take and deal at the same time.
Kintara 03-09-05, 12:23 PM	This won't work as well, since you're Medium size, but I had an idea for an Ape Totem Gnome Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana), where he would use the Giantbane tactical feat from Complete Warrior to Climb Aboard big creatures. If you take Close Quarters Fighting and keep your Climb check maxed out, you'll be practically impossible to dislodge. The only trouble is that it will only work on Huge and larger creatures for you.
Keenath 03-09-05, 01:48 PM	Yeah, Giantbane isn't really what I'm looking for. I'm more looking for what you would call it if I leap of a wall and bodily crash into my enemy. A charging Trip would probably work, if I drop at least ten feet, as would a charging grapple (can you even DO that? I see no reason I couldn't...) I think Trip is probably more appropriate, since both provoke AOOs, but a grapple attempt immediately stops if you're hit, where a Trip attempt doesn't.
bjorntfh 03-09-05, 01:51 PM	Take improved grapple. No AoO, thus you just need to grab him.
Keenath 03-09-05, 01:56 PM	That's not the point. A grapple, by nature stops if you get hit while initiating it. That means it probably isn't the right thing for this case, where I'm coming down at high speed and smashing into the opponent -- even if I get hit, it isn't enough to stop my momentum!
bjorntfh 03-09-05, 02:06 PM	Right, but initiating a grapple with Improved grapple doesn't provoke an AoO, so you won't take a hit. Since you're moving at them unless they've got reach, they won't get an AoO and the grapple isn't declared till you get in threatening range, so the AoO from movement doesn't apply to a grapple. That clarify things?
Zym 03-09-05, 02:37 PM	Battlejump from UE is nice for such. Leap Attack from CV possibly, and Raptor School from CW as well. Also see the recent FAQ regarding Jumping and Charging, its quite possible.
Keenath 03-09-05, 04:45 PM	No, Bjorn, I understand what you're saying. But the feat means you've had extra training to prevent the other guy from getting in a shot before you grab him. Grapples, by their nature, are still stopped by AOO damage. That means it isn't the right thing to use for leaping down onto somebody, because -- as I said -- no matter how much training I've had, no weapon impact is going to be enough to throw me off target when I'm leaping bodily onto somebody. The question is not whether a feat can make it possible, the question is "What mechanic fits in this situation?", and Trip makes a better fit than Grapple.