Death from Massive Wounds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Death from Massive Wounds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dahkar
02-08-07, 05:16 PM Sorry if this has been asked before, but I had a quick question on Death from Massive Wounds. Unless I've over looked this, I can't seem to find out whether spells count as "death from massive wounds"(IE Lightening Bolt? or Chain Lightening) or delivering touch attacks through melee(do I combine melee + touch?) If i'm interpreting it right, 50 points of damage seems rather low.

Thanks in advance.
tarkin
02-08-07, 05:37 PM 1) Yes, spells do count.

2) Yes, there are problems with spells.

3) You think that is bad, look at Harm, for people with over 100 hitpoints. Failing the save can be better than making it.

The optional rules for Death from Massive blows are difficult to play with. Characters are much more likely to die, and never reach higher levels.
Thiez
02-08-07, 06:50 PM ? How is failing the save better than making it? It deals 10 damage/level, will halves
ShinAkuma2
02-08-07, 07:08 PM 3) You think that is bad, look at Harm, for people with over 100 hitpoints. Failing the save can be better than making it.

In the case of the harm spell, the death from massive
damage rule creates a situation that’s arguably absurd, because
once you have 51 hit points or more, you suddenly become
susceptible to instant death from the spell when lesser beings
(with fewer hit points) do not. If the situation really bothers
you, you might try one of the following house rules:
No Instant Death from Harm Spells: The death from
massive damage rule doesn’t apply to damage inflicted from a
harm spell.
Expended Instant Death from Harm Spells: Whenever you
fail your save against a harm spell, you must make a DC 15
Fortitude save or die, no matter how much damage the spell
actually deals to you. If your save against a harm spell
succeeds, you still have to make a DC 15 Fortitude save or die
if the spell deals at least 50 points of damage to you.

FAQ = suggested reading. Harm should not cause instant death in higher level PCs, but not lower level PCs.
Thiez
02-08-07, 07:42 PM The problem with harm is the 'Can not reduce below 1 hp' thing. I mean, if you're at 1 hp, a quickened inflict light wounds will still kill you. Or a dagger. Anything. I suggest we houserule it out of there so we don't have to HouseRule things like 'No Massive Damage from Harm' or 'You must always make the DC 15 Fortitude Save'.

Oh, and you can always choose to fail a save.
Vegepygmy
02-08-07, 08:02 PM Just house-rule away Death From Massive Damage. It has no place in the hit point model, anyway.
Poison_Dusk
02-08-07, 09:49 PM Oh, and you can always choose to fail a save.

Just be careful of Metagaming. If one Of my fellow players did that and did not use a spellcraft check he would end up in a world of hurt. I really hate metagaming.
MagnaSecuris
02-09-07, 12:00 AM Just house-rule away Death From Massive Damage. It has no place in the hit point model, anyway.

Forcing people to save against Massive Damage as often as possible is one of the best strategies for martial characters to keep up with spellcasters. Just make it so that spells can't cause Massive Damage saves.
runestar
02-09-07, 12:48 AM The dc is a crummy 15. Even mages should have little problem making that save. Though a natural 1 is still a failure, which can be annoying, but helps keep some suspense in games. I think the 50+ damage you are taking should be a greater cause for concern...:P
Shadowfax7
02-09-07, 08:59 AM The optional rules for Death from Massive blows are difficult to play with. I thought the Massive Damage rules were core, not optional, and you would need to House Rule them away if you didn't want them in your campaign.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dahkar 02-08-07, 05:16 PM	Sorry if this has been asked before, but I had a quick question on Death from Massive Wounds. Unless I've over looked this, I can't seem to find out whether spells count as "death from massive wounds"(IE Lightening Bolt? or Chain Lightening) or delivering touch attacks through melee(do I combine melee + touch?) If i'm interpreting it right, 50 points of damage seems rather low. Thanks in advance.
tarkin 02-08-07, 05:37 PM	1) Yes, spells do count. 2) Yes, there are problems with spells. 3) You think that is bad, look at Harm, for people with over 100 hitpoints. Failing the save can be better than making it. The optional rules for Death from Massive blows are difficult to play with. Characters are much more likely to die, and never reach higher levels.
Thiez 02-08-07, 06:50 PM	? How is failing the save better than making it? It deals 10 damage/level, will halves
ShinAkuma2 02-08-07, 07:08 PM	3) You think that is bad, look at Harm, for people with over 100 hitpoints. Failing the save can be better than making it. In the case of the harm spell, the death from massive damage rule creates a situation that’s arguably absurd, because once you have 51 hit points or more, you suddenly become susceptible to instant death from the spell when lesser beings (with fewer hit points) do not. If the situation really bothers you, you might try one of the following house rules: No Instant Death from Harm Spells: The death from massive damage rule doesn’t apply to damage inflicted from a harm spell. Expended Instant Death from Harm Spells: Whenever you fail your save against a harm spell, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or die, no matter how much damage the spell actually deals to you. If your save against a harm spell succeeds, you still have to make a DC 15 Fortitude save or die if the spell deals at least 50 points of damage to you. FAQ = suggested reading. Harm should not cause instant death in higher level PCs, but not lower level PCs.
Thiez 02-08-07, 07:42 PM	The problem with harm is the 'Can not reduce below 1 hp' thing. I mean, if you're at 1 hp, a quickened inflict light wounds will still kill you. Or a dagger. Anything. I suggest we houserule it out of there so we don't have to HouseRule things like 'No Massive Damage from Harm' or 'You must always make the DC 15 Fortitude Save'. Oh, and you can always choose to fail a save.
Vegepygmy 02-08-07, 08:02 PM	Just house-rule away Death From Massive Damage. It has no place in the hit point model, anyway.
Poison_Dusk 02-08-07, 09:49 PM	Oh, and you can always choose to fail a save. Just be careful of Metagaming. If one Of my fellow players did that and did not use a spellcraft check he would end up in a world of hurt. I really hate metagaming.
MagnaSecuris 02-09-07, 12:00 AM	Just house-rule away Death From Massive Damage. It has no place in the hit point model, anyway. Forcing people to save against Massive Damage as often as possible is one of the best strategies for martial characters to keep up with spellcasters. Just make it so that spells can't cause Massive Damage saves.
runestar 02-09-07, 12:48 AM	The dc is a crummy 15. Even mages should have little problem making that save. Though a natural 1 is still a failure, which can be annoying, but helps keep some suspense in games. I think the 50+ damage you are taking should be a greater cause for concern...:P
Shadowfax7 02-09-07, 08:59 AM	The optional rules for Death from Massive blows are difficult to play with. I thought the Massive Damage rules were core, not optional, and you would need to House Rule them away if you didn't want them in your campaign.