Decision on my Rogue's weapon... ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Decision on my Rogue's weapon... ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mollusk
11-04-06, 11:29 AM So I'm just trying to decided what weapon route to go with my Half Elf Rogue... I'll provide my stats and feats just to encompass it all.
STR 14
DEX 16
CON 13
WIS 12
INT 12
CHA 11
OK so i'm deciding between going the TWF route and probably ultimately using two short swords and picking up weapon specialization, or I'm also thinking about the good ole Spiked Chain.
I think tripping and disarming would be cool, and it's just a really awesome reach weapon, but if i got the opportunity, TWF would obviously be really nice for SA.
I'm already leaning towards TWF, but I wanted so others input... I'm leaning in that direction because I don't really want to have to waste my next feat on Combat Expertise to pick up Improved Disarm and what not.
Also, haha, I'm using the Daring Rogue mini, who is holding two short swords, which I know isn't a huge deal, but I think it's certainly cooler if my character has the actual equipment as the mini.
Well, that's really it. I know people are really big fans of the chain, which is why I'm asking. Oh - I think our DM would let me just bypass Exotic Weapon proficiency feat just because it's no fun to waste a feat on something like that and when play pretty flexibly when it comes to lame stuff like that.
Thanks for all the help in advance guys.
Wonton2006
11-04-06, 11:51 AM Yeah, TWF is what you want. Rapier + Shortsword, or Shortsword + Shortsword, whatever floats your boat. Make sure to pick up Weapon Finesse.
Mollusk
11-04-06, 12:01 PM Oh yeah, i meant to post my current feats at lvl 4... Improved Initiative and Weapon Finesse. And before I meant weapon focus rather than specialization bc i dont intend on taking 4 lvls of fighter. If I did go TWF, is Weapon Focus where I should go as far as feats or what? It seems like a nice bonus but it also seems that there would be something that i may benefit from more... hmm.
FreAkOuTRG
11-04-06, 12:52 PM well, you should take a level in fighter and get the kukri proficiencies, or wield oversized weapon with rapiers.
DarkRhystar
11-04-06, 01:03 PM Oh - I think our DM would let me just bypass Exotic Weapon proficiency feat just because it's no fun to waste a feat on something like that and when play pretty flexibly when it comes to lame stuff like that.

If your DM will let you skip EWP, ask him if he'd allow Elven Lightblades (essentially light rapiers so there's no additional -2/-2 for dual-wielding them).
Khael
11-04-06, 01:32 PM If your DM will let you skip EWP, ask him if he'd allow Elven Lightblades (essentially light rapiers so there's no additional -2/-2 for dual-wielding them).

Or if he won't, take Improved weapon familarily (from CW). It grants racial proficiency with all weapons named after your race, so you'd get the elven lightblade, and thinblades, plus any other mundane weapon named after the elf race.
Mollusk
11-04-06, 06:09 PM Alright - so it sounds like all you guys are for the TWF route... what feats should i grab up after that?
Mollusk
11-04-06, 06:20 PM Alright - so it sounds like all you guys are for the TWF route... what feats should i grab up after that?
DarkRhystar
11-04-06, 06:30 PM Craven (Champions of Ruin) is a particularly nasty feat for a fighting Rogue since it is based on character level rather than class level (very important distinction) and adds static (read: critical multipliable) damage.

Telling Blow (PhB II) is great for getting more Sneak Attacks.

Elusive Target (Complete Warrior) can be amazing for defense depending on your DM.
Ravenmore
11-04-06, 11:55 PM My brother is using a TWF rogue in our current campaign and he plans on getting two sunblades because suprise suprise!! They handle just like shortswords with bastard sword damage. Check it out, it's cool. They also use everything from weapon focus (shortsword) to weapon spec. (short sword) They're a little expensive at 50K each, but the idea still rocks.
Chrono Nexus
11-05-06, 12:19 AM TWF with a double longsword/sickle. That would be awesome.
dengarbountyhunter
11-05-06, 12:23 PM TWF with a scimitar (or other one-handed weapon) and a (mithral when you can afford it) spiked small shield (plus the Shield Bash feat). That way, you'll get your shield bonus to AC without having to go with the TWD feat tree. Requires less feats (but more money), which is good because feats are precious for non-figthers combatants.
Mogarth_Warheart
11-05-06, 02:38 PM Rapier and kukri
wep. finness
Mollusk
11-06-06, 11:52 AM wait why would i use a rapier and a kukri... well i can see rapier but kukri's blow dont they... i mean i guess they've got the extra chance at a crit, but i'd much rather have d6 than d4. unless im missing something... and im still not sure what feats to get afterwards... well, i suppose improved TWF would be good, haha.
Dćгơs
11-06-06, 12:03 PM oversized TWF;
two +1, balanced greatswords.
Mollusk
11-06-06, 12:32 PM Is there any kind of feat i could pick up, or more than likely a spell that the sorcerer of the party may grab, that could allow me to move as well as make an attack with each hand? just bc i fear my opportunities to hit with both hands may not be too often, and even less often to be able to add SA damage...? THanks.
FreAkOuTRG
11-06-06, 01:02 PM Is there any kind of feat i could pick up, or more than likely a spell that the sorcerer of the party may grab, that could allow me to move as well as make an attack with each hand? just bc i fear my opportunities to hit with both hands may not be too often, and even less often to be able to add SA damage...? THanks.

Actually, yes. Complete Adventurer has Dual Strike, or the tempest PrC.
wonlee76
11-06-06, 04:53 PM So I'm just trying to decided what weapon route to go with my Half Elf Rogue... I'll provide my stats and feats just to encompass it all.
STR 14
DEX 16
CON 13
WIS 12
INT 12
CHA 11

I may be the odd man out here but looking over your stats, you're going to get brutalized as a TWF rogue. The HD of a rogue and low Con score doesn't mesh well with TWF since you will be needing to do full attacks to get the most mileage out of TWF + Sneak Attack. You're looking at an average of 4.5 HP per level. At level 10 you will be floating around 48 HP give or take. 58 if you up your Con to 14. Looking over bad guys at level 10, you could die relatively easily from a full attack.

Also, the medium BAB and penalties to hit associated with TWF will at least result in a few whiffs somewhere. End result, you sneak attack bad guy once, maybe twice... If bad guy is still alive, he will full attack you back hitting more often than missing due to Rogue's lack of high AC generally.

If you're really set on being a TWF rogue, look up Complete Warrior and pick up the Improved Buckler Defense feat to up your AC enough so that those counter attacks don't kill you outright. But you're going to be feat starved in this I think.

Level 1: Improved Init
Level 3: Weapon Finesse
Level 6: TWF
Level 9: Improved TWF (Presuming you meet the dex pre-req)
Level 12: Improved Buckler Defense
Level 15: Weapon Focus (Shortsword) or some other feat that may appeal to you.
Level 18: Greater TWF (Presuming you meet the dex pre-req)

Personally, with your stat array, I would prefer a spring attacking rogue. Spring in, flank with meatshield, hit once, spring out of harms way. A lot safer and more durable in the long run.
Mollusk
11-06-06, 05:00 PM alright man thanks... yea ill look into pickin up a shield, but we'll see
Mollusk
11-10-06, 10:34 AM Actually, yes. Complete Adventurer has Dual Strike, or the tempest PrC.

I read somewhere in some guide that Dual Strike doesn't work with sneak attack... is this true? Because thats why I was asking because obviously i want to be able to hit with both hands, especially in SA situations. I'm just aprehensive bc im not sure how often ill be able to SA with both weapons if i cant move and do it... Thanks.
angryscrub
11-10-06, 11:57 AM I read somewhere in some guide that Dual Strike doesn't work with sneak attack... is this true? Because thats why I was asking because obviously i want to be able to hit with both hands, especially in SA situations. I'm just aprehensive bc im not sure how often ill be able to SA with both weapons if i cant move and do it... Thanks.

Well, actually, you only get sneak attack damage with one weapon. You basically use the same attack roll for both weapons, and apply sneak attack only once.
lunchbox1584
11-10-06, 12:13 PM TWF sounds good but why not use a short sword and whip dagger you will need some feats but it would be cool.
Mollusk
11-10-06, 04:54 PM So I can still move, double attack, but only get SA damage for one weapon...? Thats not too bad.

Hey, could you elaborate on that whip dagger what not idea? Thanks.
FreAkOuTRG
11-10-06, 10:15 PM So I can still move, double attack, but only get SA damage for one weapon...? Thats not too bad.

I'd recomend taking the tempest prestige class instead. Get sneak attack for both. It also erases penalties for two-weapon fighting and gives a +3 to defense (eventually)
Saion2014
11-11-06, 11:11 AM Removed for space

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mollusk 11-04-06, 11:29 AM	So I'm just trying to decided what weapon route to go with my Half Elf Rogue... I'll provide my stats and feats just to encompass it all. STR 14 DEX 16 CON 13 WIS 12 INT 12 CHA 11 OK so i'm deciding between going the TWF route and probably ultimately using two short swords and picking up weapon specialization, or I'm also thinking about the good ole Spiked Chain. I think tripping and disarming would be cool, and it's just a really awesome reach weapon, but if i got the opportunity, TWF would obviously be really nice for SA. I'm already leaning towards TWF, but I wanted so others input... I'm leaning in that direction because I don't really want to have to waste my next feat on Combat Expertise to pick up Improved Disarm and what not. Also, haha, I'm using the Daring Rogue mini, who is holding two short swords, which I know isn't a huge deal, but I think it's certainly cooler if my character has the actual equipment as the mini. Well, that's really it. I know people are really big fans of the chain, which is why I'm asking. Oh - I think our DM would let me just bypass Exotic Weapon proficiency feat just because it's no fun to waste a feat on something like that and when play pretty flexibly when it comes to lame stuff like that. Thanks for all the help in advance guys.
Wonton2006 11-04-06, 11:51 AM	Yeah, TWF is what you want. Rapier + Shortsword, or Shortsword + Shortsword, whatever floats your boat. Make sure to pick up Weapon Finesse.
Mollusk 11-04-06, 12:01 PM	Oh yeah, i meant to post my current feats at lvl 4... Improved Initiative and Weapon Finesse. And before I meant weapon focus rather than specialization bc i dont intend on taking 4 lvls of fighter. If I did go TWF, is Weapon Focus where I should go as far as feats or what? It seems like a nice bonus but it also seems that there would be something that i may benefit from more... hmm.
FreAkOuTRG 11-04-06, 12:52 PM	well, you should take a level in fighter and get the kukri proficiencies, or wield oversized weapon with rapiers.
DarkRhystar 11-04-06, 01:03 PM	Oh - I think our DM would let me just bypass Exotic Weapon proficiency feat just because it's no fun to waste a feat on something like that and when play pretty flexibly when it comes to lame stuff like that. If your DM will let you skip EWP, ask him if he'd allow Elven Lightblades (essentially light rapiers so there's no additional -2/-2 for dual-wielding them).
Khael 11-04-06, 01:32 PM	If your DM will let you skip EWP, ask him if he'd allow Elven Lightblades (essentially light rapiers so there's no additional -2/-2 for dual-wielding them). Or if he won't, take Improved weapon familarily (from CW). It grants racial proficiency with all weapons named after your race, so you'd get the elven lightblade, and thinblades, plus any other mundane weapon named after the elf race.
Mollusk 11-04-06, 06:09 PM	Alright - so it sounds like all you guys are for the TWF route... what feats should i grab up after that?
Mollusk 11-04-06, 06:20 PM	Alright - so it sounds like all you guys are for the TWF route... what feats should i grab up after that?
DarkRhystar 11-04-06, 06:30 PM	Craven (Champions of Ruin) is a particularly nasty feat for a fighting Rogue since it is based on character level rather than class level (very important distinction) and adds static (read: critical multipliable) damage. Telling Blow (PhB II) is great for getting more Sneak Attacks. Elusive Target (Complete Warrior) can be amazing for defense depending on your DM.
Ravenmore 11-04-06, 11:55 PM	My brother is using a TWF rogue in our current campaign and he plans on getting two sunblades because suprise suprise!! They handle just like shortswords with bastard sword damage. Check it out, it's cool. They also use everything from weapon focus (shortsword) to weapon spec. (short sword) They're a little expensive at 50K each, but the idea still rocks.
Chrono Nexus 11-05-06, 12:19 AM	TWF with a double longsword/sickle. That would be awesome.
dengarbountyhunter 11-05-06, 12:23 PM	TWF with a scimitar (or other one-handed weapon) and a (mithral when you can afford it) spiked small shield (plus the Shield Bash feat). That way, you'll get your shield bonus to AC without having to go with the TWD feat tree. Requires less feats (but more money), which is good because feats are precious for non-figthers combatants.
Mogarth_Warheart 11-05-06, 02:38 PM	Rapier and kukri wep. finness
Mollusk 11-06-06, 11:52 AM	wait why would i use a rapier and a kukri... well i can see rapier but kukri's blow dont they... i mean i guess they've got the extra chance at a crit, but i'd much rather have d6 than d4. unless im missing something... and im still not sure what feats to get afterwards... well, i suppose improved TWF would be good, haha.
Dćгơs 11-06-06, 12:03 PM	oversized TWF; two +1, balanced greatswords.
Mollusk 11-06-06, 12:32 PM	Is there any kind of feat i could pick up, or more than likely a spell that the sorcerer of the party may grab, that could allow me to move as well as make an attack with each hand? just bc i fear my opportunities to hit with both hands may not be too often, and even less often to be able to add SA damage...? THanks.
FreAkOuTRG 11-06-06, 01:02 PM	Is there any kind of feat i could pick up, or more than likely a spell that the sorcerer of the party may grab, that could allow me to move as well as make an attack with each hand? just bc i fear my opportunities to hit with both hands may not be too often, and even less often to be able to add SA damage...? THanks. Actually, yes. Complete Adventurer has Dual Strike, or the tempest PrC.
wonlee76 11-06-06, 04:53 PM	So I'm just trying to decided what weapon route to go with my Half Elf Rogue... I'll provide my stats and feats just to encompass it all. STR 14 DEX 16 CON 13 WIS 12 INT 12 CHA 11 I may be the odd man out here but looking over your stats, you're going to get brutalized as a TWF rogue. The HD of a rogue and low Con score doesn't mesh well with TWF since you will be needing to do full attacks to get the most mileage out of TWF + Sneak Attack. You're looking at an average of 4.5 HP per level. At level 10 you will be floating around 48 HP give or take. 58 if you up your Con to 14. Looking over bad guys at level 10, you could die relatively easily from a full attack. Also, the medium BAB and penalties to hit associated with TWF will at least result in a few whiffs somewhere. End result, you sneak attack bad guy once, maybe twice... If bad guy is still alive, he will full attack you back hitting more often than missing due to Rogue's lack of high AC generally. If you're really set on being a TWF rogue, look up Complete Warrior and pick up the Improved Buckler Defense feat to up your AC enough so that those counter attacks don't kill you outright. But you're going to be feat starved in this I think. Level 1: Improved Init Level 3: Weapon Finesse Level 6: TWF Level 9: Improved TWF (Presuming you meet the dex pre-req) Level 12: Improved Buckler Defense Level 15: Weapon Focus (Shortsword) or some other feat that may appeal to you. Level 18: Greater TWF (Presuming you meet the dex pre-req) Personally, with your stat array, I would prefer a spring attacking rogue. Spring in, flank with meatshield, hit once, spring out of harms way. A lot safer and more durable in the long run.
Mollusk 11-06-06, 05:00 PM	alright man thanks... yea ill look into pickin up a shield, but we'll see
Mollusk 11-10-06, 10:34 AM	Actually, yes. Complete Adventurer has Dual Strike, or the tempest PrC. I read somewhere in some guide that Dual Strike doesn't work with sneak attack... is this true? Because thats why I was asking because obviously i want to be able to hit with both hands, especially in SA situations. I'm just aprehensive bc im not sure how often ill be able to SA with both weapons if i cant move and do it... Thanks.
angryscrub 11-10-06, 11:57 AM	I read somewhere in some guide that Dual Strike doesn't work with sneak attack... is this true? Because thats why I was asking because obviously i want to be able to hit with both hands, especially in SA situations. I'm just aprehensive bc im not sure how often ill be able to SA with both weapons if i cant move and do it... Thanks. Well, actually, you only get sneak attack damage with one weapon. You basically use the same attack roll for both weapons, and apply sneak attack only once.
lunchbox1584 11-10-06, 12:13 PM	TWF sounds good but why not use a short sword and whip dagger you will need some feats but it would be cool.
Mollusk 11-10-06, 04:54 PM	So I can still move, double attack, but only get SA damage for one weapon...? Thats not too bad. Hey, could you elaborate on that whip dagger what not idea? Thanks.
FreAkOuTRG 11-10-06, 10:15 PM	So I can still move, double attack, but only get SA damage for one weapon...? Thats not too bad. I'd recomend taking the tempest prestige class instead. Get sneak attack for both. It also erases penalties for two-weapon fighting and gives a +3 to defense (eventually)
Saion2014 11-11-06, 11:11 AM	Removed for space