Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Niveus Lynx 06-12-05, 01:10 AM	Ok. So I just found this file on my computer, and remembered why I wrote it. I wanted to create an item that manipulated random spells effects. What better way than to draw them from a deck of cards? Joker - Tasha's Hideous Laughter Ace of Diamonds - Meteor Swarm King of Diamonds - Earthquake Queen of Diamonds - Fire Storm Jack of Diamonds - Delayed Blast Fireball 10 of Diamonds - Sunburst 9 of Diamonds - Chain Lightning 8 of Diamonds - Ice Storm 7 of Diamonds - Wall of Fire 6 of Diamonds - Lightning Bolt 5 of Diamonds - Fireball 4 of Diamonds - Flaming Sphere 3 of Diamonds - Magic Missile 2 of Diamonds - Ray of Frost Ace of Hearts - Dominate Monster King of Hearts - Hold Monster, Mass Queen of Hearts - Charm Monster, Mass Jack of Hearts - Sympathy 10 of Hearts - Antipathy 9 of Hearts - Hold Person, Mass 8 of Hearts - Suggestion, Mass 7 of Hearts - Dominate Person 6 of Hearts - Hold Monster 5 of Hearts - Charm Monster 4 of Hearts - Hold Person 3 of Hearts - Charm Person 2 of Hearts - Sleep Ace of Clubs - Implosion King of Clubs - Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass Queen of Clubs - Destruction Jack of Clubs - Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass 10 of Clubs - Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass 9 of Clubs - Inflict Light Wounds, Mass 8 of Clubs - Inflict Critical Wounds 7 of Clubs - Inflict Serious Wounds 6 of Clubs - Contagion 5 of Clubs - Bestow Curse 4 of Clubs - Inflict Moderate Wounds 3 of Clubs - Inflict Light Wounds 2 of Clubs - Doom Ace of Spades - Geas/Quest King of Spades - Animate Objects Queen of Spades - Irresistible Dance Jack of Spades - Permanent Image 10 of Spades - Invisibility, Greater 9 of Spades - Lesser Geas 8 of Spades - Slow 7 of Spades - Invisibility 6 of Spades - Blur 5 of Spades - Grease 4 of Spades - Silent Image 3 of Spades - Ghost Sound 2 of Spades - Flare [/stuff] I don't know how I intended for the spells to be delivered, or the save DCs, or anything. The document contained the cards and spells. Anyone want to write some rules?
Flay Crimsonwind 06-12-05, 01:12 AM	I like the idea of a deck of blast spells, but isn't there a deck kinda like this already? I'd give it some scroll rules. Not sure what exactly, but they're most resembling scrolls.
Niveus Lynx 06-12-05, 01:20 AM	You're probably thinking of the Deck of Many Things.
Flay Crimsonwind 06-12-05, 01:21 AM	Yeah, from the DMG. Just give 'em scroll rules. What are the price? For a whole deck, of course.
The WarOverlord 06-12-05, 07:36 AM	I like the idea of a deck of blast spells, but isn't there a deck kinda like this already? I'd give it some scroll rules. Not sure what exactly, but they're most resembling scrolls. Wouldn't that be a "Magic the Gathering" style battle :rolleyes:
Niveus Lynx 06-12-05, 12:28 PM	Wouldn't that be a "Magic the Gathering" style battle :rolleyes: They don't summon monsters.
howlingwolf 06-12-05, 01:44 PM	Uhh.. Far as mechanics go, I'd say following the usual rules for a spell that comes up, or is ranged. I'm sure you've seen at least one anime/cartoon where someone flings a magical card or whatever dramatically to explode into whatever SFX is required. Heck. Gambit from Xmen is another good idea. Far as target effects that require touch, ( Inflict x Wounds for example ) nothing would be better than the usual touch attack, and slapping a monster on the forehead with a card before it explodes in a bloody mess.
The WarOverlord 06-13-05, 07:21 AM	They don't summon monsters. A Monster jumping out of a card? That would be Pokemon rip off :D But Hey, If you hold out a card and say the trigger word the Holographic image of the Monster on it first animates then pops out :D Likewise holding out a card and saying the trigger word after choosing a target for it causes the holographic image of the spell effect depicted to animate then it happens in the "real world" and effect the target :D THe card could disapear after a single use like a scroll, be times per day usable like a magic item, or even be a alternative form of Spell book....a "Spell Deck" :cool:
Malcoren 06-15-05, 09:47 PM	How cool... I was thinking of something similar myself... The best way I see to do it is simply not to use an entire deck, at least, not at first. Start with the lower level cards, and pick and choose the lower-level spells to match with them. As the character gains character levels (or levels in a spellcasting class), you can 'upgrade' it to allow the more powerful cards. In mechanical terms, you have a tiny deck that grows with size as you 'add' cards to reflect the change in their levels. In the game, however, the deck is full-sized, but keeps coming up with the same limited options for some reason. Obviously it'd need to do something freaky like have them all be faceless if it's just dumped on a table, etc. In the case of usefulness, for an 'unaligned' person (one who doesn't match your conception of it), it should only be able to function once, twice, or three times per day. One that matches it should have progressively more. If you want, you can design a class that gets more draws (or do the same with Feats), or even get it to the point where it will work as much as they use it. There's so many options you have here it's silly. I rather like the idea of seperating the suits into different effects... like how, in your instance, most of the Diamonds are Evocations of some sort. Might be good to do that with all the suits. Also helps to decide how you want to do targeting--obviously the inflict ones could do it by touch... so do you want to allow them to be thrown as ranged touch attacks? (-4 nonproficient / improvised penalty, of course). As for DC's, for those who aren't of a class that takes advantage of it, it would be the same as for any other spell in a magic item... DC = 10 + spell level + minimum ability modifier required. An Ace of Fireball would have a DC of 14 (3 for the spell level, +1 from the bonus of a 13 Int needed for it). This is, of course, unless you intend to ramp up its DC or its effective caster level (for more damage, such as in the Fireball case). In this way, you can kind of 'fudge' a GP cost by dividing things and taking chance into account. While you might not want hard rules for 'creating' the things, it's entirely possible you might need a yardstick by which to estimate the cost. In this instance (as estimating cool new item costs is one of my hobbies), might I suggest this: Since the draws are more or less random, the total number of spells and levels and whatnot should be divided fractionally according to this, and based off of the total number of uses. Needless to say, this gives me ideas. Perhaps I'll work on this in my spare time. But I'm kind of waiting for Weapons of Legacy to come out, so that I can make it more powerful while requiring devotion on the part of the user... scale it up in power, beyond its 'standard' limits, for those who wish to devote themselves to its use. If you really want to get into it, grab a cheap Tarot deck and use that... since there are the standard suits, as well as the trumps (the 'major arcana', the ones usually used in Decks of Many Things, etc), you can have even more options if you so desire. "The WarOverlord": That's YuGiOh that has monsters coming out of cards. Pokémon has monsters coming out of balls. I'll let you decide which is better. ;)
dragonseth 06-15-05, 10:08 PM	Who's up for fusing my two favorite hobbies: Magic and D&D?!?! (Conveniently both WoTC products) Anyone??? Add in some Summon Monster spells. :D
hisnamehere 06-15-05, 10:29 PM	The problem here is that the rules say that to use spell effects from magic items you need to have that spell on your spell list. If not, then the magic item is more powerful (i.e. expensive) as it does not have a character class requirement. In order for this to work: 1) Only targetted aggressive spells appear on the cards, so that each card is used in the same way. Then, anyone can use the deck. Standard action (perhaps provoking AoO). 2) It can't be like scrolls, 'cause then it would be a collection of 52 scrolls. They would be conveniently stacked, but hard as heck to find in a pinch. Note: This is definately a Chaotic item. You never no what will come of your next draw.
Niveus Lynx 06-15-05, 11:16 PM	To Malcoren: I would love it if you came up with rules. That would be pretty awesome. I would also love it if all of the cards could be used as ranged weapons.
Malcoren 06-16-05, 01:07 AM	hisnamehere: YOU see trouble. I see opportunity. The rules do say the first part, at least. But since we have plenty of examples of wondrous items that do odd things (Keen Scabbards, for instance) normally not used by the 'class' that wields them, we have precedent for the other. The way I see it, and I intend to write my version as open-ended as possible for other DM's to use it, is that if it's specific for a class (spellcaster class, natch), it's less expensive. One used by anyone is, well, exactly twice the price, as most such items go. As to your numbered points: 1) No. It need not be this way. Either all of a particular suit or the entire deck itself must have the same method of targeting. For instance, a 'deck' made by a Cleric could have all friendly-buffs and heals. A 'deck' made by a Wizard might be all attack spells. A 'deck' made by Druids might be all Summons, etc. Or, like I mentioned earlier, that could possibly be each suit, though adjudicating the price for that is harder (see my final version, when I get it posted, as to why). And note, these things don't necessarily have to be decks. They could be dice (imagine both the player and the PC rolling a big D20...), runestones, etc. The 'graphical' representation--what they look like--can be a variety of things, as it does not affect gameplay (so while it might be hard to imagine a Druid using a deck of cards, one that casts rune-scribed stones is more reasonable). 2) Scrolls are one-shot items. These are not. The way I see it, these would be Wondrous Items. And the whole point of this item is the fact that it is random is what makes it fun. Chaotic in nature, just as a Rod of Wonder or Deck of Many Things. Just less lethal, since most aren't made to backfire. As for not knowing your next draw, that is true, which is what keeps the price of the item from being astronomical. Although a DM might just want to design a PrC around the things (and I'm working on that, too) so players can have some more fun. Lynx: No problem, man. This was a great idea that got me thinking, and it's actually fairly easy to accomplish with the rules we have, it just took your idea to 'spark' them in such a way as it will work without requiring heavy recalculation of the magic item costs. I'll be sure and post the results when I'm done. Actually, the idea of this is rather exciting... I hope the WotC's can make something useful out of it, perhaps tweak it if they need, and release such an item as an 'official' one.
Niveus Lynx 06-16-05, 01:11 AM	Lynx: No problem, man. This was a great idea that got me thinking, and it's actually fairly easy to accomplish with the rules we have, it just took your idea to 'spark' them in such a way as it will work without requiring heavy recalculation of the magic item costs. I'll be sure and post the results when I'm done. Actually, the idea of this is rather exciting... I hope the WotC's can make something useful out of it, perhaps tweak it if they need, and release such an item as an 'official' one. We all know they won't. They'd be too afraid of stealing intellectual property. If there was a "Knowledge Arcana: Bring Us Your Best Item", then maybe it could happen.
runestar 06-16-05, 01:26 AM	They don't summon monsters. YEah, but I once had a deck that consisted solely of spells, no monsters. :)
The WarOverlord 06-16-05, 04:43 PM	"The WarOverlord": That's YuGiOh that has monsters coming out of cards. Pokémon has monsters coming out of balls. I'll let you decide which is better. ;) Well, to this day if I see something that rotates like a record turn table or a model platform I still have to put something on it if not stand on it with a pose hearing the song "Digiman, Digiman Masters,Digiman,Digiman Masters" as it/I rotates :rolleyes:
Dragoon 06-16-05, 04:55 PM	Digimon is the correct spelling. Why do people use "man" instead of "mon?" Anyways, this is a great idea. Personally I would think it great to have a Clerical deck, an Arcane deck and such as that. Or maybe they focus on certain spells. I love this idea and...Yoink, time to add changes and make it suitible for my campign. Keep up the good work. Great ideas are created in the womb of chaos, great inventions out of boredom with great ideas, great people from great ideas and great inventions.
Prince FyreDragon 06-16-05, 05:27 PM	Not only is this a good a idea for a wondrous item, but it could also be used as a gigantic story hook. Create some BBEG/guild/etc that is trying to collect all 52 runes/cards (whatever you want them to be) in order to reassemble this godlike deck...and your party is out to either collect them first or at least keep them out of the hands of the BBEG. There's 52 adventures that you can craft in any setting you want to put it in (Faerun, Eberron, Greyhawk, homebrew) and send your party all over the place. Not to mention having smaller adventures leading up to obtaining one of the 52 cards. It's a 0-20 (or 40, if you get creative) level module with a prebuilt backstory. All one would have to do is flesh out the details, and then plan the mundane encounters, clues, etc needed for the players to go about this. Now that I think about it...<hijacking my own idea> :evillaugh :fight!:
Niveus Lynx 06-16-05, 05:32 PM	Not only is this a good a idea for a wondrous item, but it could also be used as a gigantic story hook. Create some BBEG/guild/etc that is trying to collect all 52 runes/cards (whatever you want them to be) in order to reassemble this godlike deck...and your party is out to either collect them first or at least keep them out of the hands of the BBEG. There's 52 adventures that you can craft in any setting you want to put it in (Faerun, Eberron, Greyhawk, homebrew) and send your party all over the place. Not to mention having smaller adventures leading up to obtaining one of the 52 cards. It's a 0-20 (or 40, if you get creative) level module with a prebuilt backstory. All one would have to do is flesh out the details, and then plan the mundane encounters, clues, etc needed for the players to go about this. Now that I think about it...<hijacking my own idea> :evillaugh :fight!: I might hijack that idea too. Maybe not these exact cards, but cards that when combined summoned some sort of uber-demon.
The WarOverlord 06-17-05, 09:07 AM	Digimon is the correct spelling. Why do people use "man" instead of "mon?" Pronounciation of how I sing it in my case :D