Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NeueRegel 08-28-05, 01:28 AM	Heyas. 3.5 Okay, I thought of something earlier that's been bugging me. This is not, "Can I use two defending weapons?", or, "Is an offhand defending weapon a shield if I don't 'wield' it?", or one of those... Let's presume a sword +4 defending AND flaming burst. defending is a +1 ability. flaming burst is a +2 ability. Do you get both abilities at once? Can you "allocate" +4 to AC, and will it then be a +0 (masterwork) flaming burst sword? According to the RAW, a magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement enchantment. That seems warped to me; unfair. But I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes either, if that's indeed how it works. Magic is magic. But it seems to me that if you used up the magic in one way, you shouldn't get double benefit. (Or do you?). Or does the flame snuff out for lack of power? Or, if you command it to flame, will you only be able to allocate +3 to AC? See my insane logic at work? Following me? What if it's defending and vorpal? keen? bane! (+0/+2 vs bane???) Okay, I think I've illustrated my question as clearly as I have any hope of doing. It may be so whacked-out that it will make no sense to anybody at all. Thoughts? NeueRegel
Thorak 08-28-05, 01:56 AM	Heyas. 3.5 Okay, I thought of something earlier that's been bugging me. This is not, "Can I use two defending weapons?", or, "Is an offhand defending weapon a shield if I don't 'wield' it?", or one of those... Let's presume a sword +4 defending AND flaming burst. defending is a +1 ability. flaming burst is a +2 ability. Do you get both abilities at once? Can you "allocate" +4 to AC, and will it then be a +0 (masterwork) flaming burst sword? Yes and no. You can allocate the +4 to AC, and the sword is still a flaming burst sword. You still get +1 to hit, though, because the masterwork bonus is still there, underlying the magical enhancement bonus. According to the RAW, a magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement enchantment. And it does. It has a +4. Defending doesn't remove the enhancement bonus, it applies it to AC instead of to-hit and damage. That seems warped to me; unfair. But I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes either, if that's indeed how it works. Magic is magic. But it seems to me that if you used up the magic in one way, you shouldn't get double benefit. (Or do you?). Or does the flame snuff out for lack of power? Or, if you command it to flame, will you only be able to allocate +3 to AC? There is no 'double benefit". The sword is magical, has at least a +1 enhancement bonus, and thus its abilities work. It doesn't matter if Defending is moving those enhancement bonuses around.
Zilred 08-28-05, 02:21 AM	I think the Flaming Burst enhancement was only given an effective weapon enhancement level of +2 for the purposes of item cost and time to create. A +3 Longsword still takes as long to make as a +1 Flaming Burst Longsword, and both cost the same. However, with Defending, it allocates the weapon's enhancement bonus, +1 or +2 or so on, to AC instead of to hit. Flaming Burst adds 1d6 fire damage and d10's more on critical hits, but not an enhancement bonus. A Defending Bane Weapon with the Defending quality active would still get a +2 effective bonus to the enhancement bonus for the attack and damage rolls in addition to the +2d6, but the effective bonus would not apply to the Defending Quality (so a +3 Defending Bane Sword can add +3 to AC, not +5). Flavor-wise, I would see nothing wrong with a Defending Orcbane weapon being able to better defend and attack against Orcs as well as deal damage, but I do not believe that the rules are written that way. And just for clarity, a +1 Shortsword of Frost and Flame is usually assumed to have both enhancements active at the same time, dealing 1d6+1 +1d6 fire +1d6 frost on its own.
Vaelan 08-28-05, 07:38 AM	If the enhancement bonus doesn't count when you're using the Defending property, does that mean you get to enchant the sword more cheaply if it is held and the Defending property is being used while you enchant it (for the record, this would be right before the DM smacks you and yells "BAD MUNCHKIN!"). You only lose the bonuses to hit and damage. A +4 enhancement bonus gives more than just the bonuses to hit and damage, and thus a +4 Defending sword is still always a +4 sword.
NeueRegel 08-28-05, 09:14 AM	Thanks everybody. *Sheepish grin* Neue
Raven Dark 08-28-05, 12:02 PM	It will keep its other properties regardless of where you move the enhancement bonus. Fact of the matter is, the bonus is still in the weapon, it just affects a different aspect of the character. Remember though, the bonuses for special abilities are "Base Price Modifiers" not "Enhancement Bonuses." Thus you could only allocate +4 to you AC if you had a +4 defending weapon, not a +1 defending flaming burst weapon. Zilred has it right. Even when you move the bonus, however, your masterwork weapon still provides +1 to attacks as was said previously in this thread.
SolenVlos 08-28-05, 03:20 PM	the original weapon is +4 defending flaming burst whatever +4 +1 +2 ___ +7 we call it "matemática" here in Brazil.
Zilred 08-28-05, 08:47 PM	the original weapon is +4 defending flaming burst whatever +4 +1 +2 ___ +7 we call it "matemática" here in Brazil. Yes, a +4 Defending Flaming Burst Weapon is a +7 weapon. So is a +6 Defending Weapon. However, the +4 Defending Flaming Burst can only provide +4 to AC. The +6 Defending Weapon can provide the full +6.