Defending Weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Defending Weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Taldren Li
10-13-06, 12:49 AM I have a couple questions regarding the Defending ability you can get on your weapon. First, if you use the defending wapon in your off-hand and use a normal weapon in your primary, do you take the penalties for two weapon fighting. Also, would there be any rules stopping you from getting shield spikes defending?
Salla
10-13-06, 01:31 AM I have a couple questions regarding the Defending ability you can get on your weapon. First, if you use the defending wapon in your off-hand and use a normal weapon in your primary, do you take the penalties for two weapon fighting. Also, would there be any rules stopping you from getting shield spikes defending?

If you aren't using both weapons to attack, you don't take TWF penalties ... but I'm not sure if you can use Defending if you're not attacking with the weapon. DMG is rather buried right now ...

I can't see any reason you can't get Defending Shield Spikes.
SageBahamut
10-13-06, 01:32 AM 1: No - unless you're also using the Two-Weapon Defense feat.
2: Yes - shield spikes specifically say they can be enchanted as a weapon, and thus, can be given the defending property. Remember to pay Weapon prices for them, though. (There are /far/ more efficient ways of getting your AC pumped - go check the CharOpt boards.)
runestar
10-13-06, 02:31 AM You must actually wield a defending weapon to benefit from it, thus, if you want to benefit from a defending weapon in your off-hand, you must attack with it, thus taking the penalties for TWFing. You will still get the extra off-hand attack though.:)
mvincent
10-13-06, 01:20 PM From the 3.0 FAQ
"Do you have to actively wield a weapon of defending to
use its power? Or could you hold a longsword of defending
in your left hand, not use it to attack (so you are not
actually using the two weapons) and still wield a sword in
your right hand without penalties? Or is the defending
bonus considered part of the normal parrying that happens
in the background?
Using a weapon of defending works just like the Expertise
feat. (You have to use an attack or full attack action.) You can’t
use the weapon like a shield; if you hold the weapon in your off
hand and claim an Armor Class bonus for it, you take all the
penalties for fighting with two weapons, even if you don’t
actually attack with the weapon."

(I don't believe there have been any changes in the associated rules that would invalidate this clarification, but your DM may rule otherwise.)
kjenks
10-13-06, 03:43 PM The 3.5e armor spike rules do not include that old 3e FAQ entry, and the armor spike rules have changed in several ways.

We've been over this many times before.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=435533

A relatively recent FAQ entry should settle this debate.

FAQ
===
Is a character wielding a two-handed reach weapon
(such as a longspear) and wearing spiked armor
threatening all squares within 10 feet? Assuming he has
Combat Reflexes, can he make an attack of opportunity
with his longspear and then with his armor spikes in the
same round?

A character wearing spiked armor threatens all squares
within his normal reach (5 feet away). If he also wields a
longspear, he would also threaten all squares 10 feet away.

Any time a character wielding more than one weapon is
allowed an attack of opportunity, he may use any weapon that
threatens the opponent who has provoked the attack. In this
case, imagine an enemy who charged the character and then
tried to disarm him. The charge attack would provoke an attack
of opportunity from the longspear as the enemy moved out of a
threatened square (in order to move adjacent to the character
and deliver the charge attack). Then, the disarm attempt would
provoke another attack of opportunity (assuming the enemy
didn’t have Improved Disarm). This attack of opportunity could
be made only with the armor spikes, since the longspear
doesn’t threaten an adjacent enemy.
===

That makes it pretty clear that this dude is wielding both weapons, with no mention of TWF penalties.
mvincent
10-13-06, 03:59 PM That makes it pretty clear that this dude is wielding both weapons, with no mention of TWF penalties.I agree that he would be wielding both weapons. I believe the previous defending issues weren't over wielding so much as using:
"the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon"

I'm not saying that it's beyond debate, but the intent still seems just as applicable (since defending didn't change between editions), and the same author wrote both that FAQ answer and the recent RotG article on TWF'ing that you quoted.

Here is the 3.0 description of defending (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdmagicitemsweapons.rtf):
"Defending
A defender weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon’s enhancement bonus to his or her AC as a special bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his or her turn before using the weapon, and the effect to AC lasts until the wielder’s next turn.
Caster Level: 8th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, shield or shield of faith; Market Price: +1 bonus."

Here is the 3.5 description of defending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#defending):
"Defending
A defending weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the sword’s enhancement bonus to his AC as a bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the effect to AC lasts until his next turn.
Moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, shield or shield of faith; Price +1 bonus. "
kjenks
10-14-06, 09:42 AM Your screen name has not been involved in this long debate. We've already covered that old FAQ entry in our previous discussion.
mvincent
10-15-06, 12:04 AM Your screen name has not been involved in this long debate.I certainly was in the the previous debate that you mentioned (which covered alot about wielding, but not much about the FAQ entry). I also participated in many others on the WotC boards (and the ENWorld boards)

We've already covered that old FAQ entry in our previous discussion.Not very well in the discussions I've been in on the WotC boards. The debate you referenced was not as detailed as the one's I participated in on the ENWorld boards.
Mitchell
10-15-06, 12:29 AM Oh, I was going to put my .02 in, but since it seems that one has to have been involved in some prior discussion to participate here... Nah, I'm going to speak up anyway...
It doesn't say that you don't take the penalties either.
TWF has been involved in a lot of discussion and debate as to exactly what it is and isn't, or when it is or isn't, anyway.
If the DM wants non-shield users to get away with free shield use, that's their call.
If a DM wants to let someone use a reach weapon and threaten all adjacent squares also without taking a feat with the spiked chain or TWF, that's their call.
It won't, however, be my call.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Taldren Li 10-13-06, 12:49 AM	I have a couple questions regarding the Defending ability you can get on your weapon. First, if you use the defending wapon in your off-hand and use a normal weapon in your primary, do you take the penalties for two weapon fighting. Also, would there be any rules stopping you from getting shield spikes defending?
Salla 10-13-06, 01:31 AM	I have a couple questions regarding the Defending ability you can get on your weapon. First, if you use the defending wapon in your off-hand and use a normal weapon in your primary, do you take the penalties for two weapon fighting. Also, would there be any rules stopping you from getting shield spikes defending? If you aren't using both weapons to attack, you don't take TWF penalties ... but I'm not sure if you can use Defending if you're not attacking with the weapon. DMG is rather buried right now ... I can't see any reason you can't get Defending Shield Spikes.
SageBahamut 10-13-06, 01:32 AM	1: No - unless you're also using the Two-Weapon Defense feat. 2: Yes - shield spikes specifically say they can be enchanted as a weapon, and thus, can be given the defending property. Remember to pay Weapon prices for them, though. (There are /far/ more efficient ways of getting your AC pumped - go check the CharOpt boards.)
runestar 10-13-06, 02:31 AM	You must actually wield a defending weapon to benefit from it, thus, if you want to benefit from a defending weapon in your off-hand, you must attack with it, thus taking the penalties for TWFing. You will still get the extra off-hand attack though.:)
mvincent 10-13-06, 01:20 PM	From the 3.0 FAQ "Do you have to actively wield a weapon of defending to use its power? Or could you hold a longsword of defending in your left hand, not use it to attack (so you are not actually using the two weapons) and still wield a sword in your right hand without penalties? Or is the defending bonus considered part of the normal parrying that happens in the background? Using a weapon of defending works just like the Expertise feat. (You have to use an attack or full attack action.) You can’t use the weapon like a shield; if you hold the weapon in your off hand and claim an Armor Class bonus for it, you take all the penalties for fighting with two weapons, even if you don’t actually attack with the weapon." (I don't believe there have been any changes in the associated rules that would invalidate this clarification, but your DM may rule otherwise.)
kjenks 10-13-06, 03:43 PM	The 3.5e armor spike rules do not include that old 3e FAQ entry, and the armor spike rules have changed in several ways. We've been over this many times before. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=435533 A relatively recent FAQ entry should settle this debate. FAQ === Is a character wielding a two-handed reach weapon (such as a longspear) and wearing spiked armor threatening all squares within 10 feet? Assuming he has Combat Reflexes, can he make an attack of opportunity with his longspear and then with his armor spikes in the same round? A character wearing spiked armor threatens all squares within his normal reach (5 feet away). If he also wields a longspear, he would also threaten all squares 10 feet away. Any time a character wielding more than one weapon is allowed an attack of opportunity, he may use any weapon that threatens the opponent who has provoked the attack. In this case, imagine an enemy who charged the character and then tried to disarm him. The charge attack would provoke an attack of opportunity from the longspear as the enemy moved out of a threatened square (in order to move adjacent to the character and deliver the charge attack). Then, the disarm attempt would provoke another attack of opportunity (assuming the enemy didn’t have Improved Disarm). This attack of opportunity could be made only with the armor spikes, since the longspear doesn’t threaten an adjacent enemy. === That makes it pretty clear that this dude is wielding both weapons, with no mention of TWF penalties.
mvincent 10-13-06, 03:59 PM	That makes it pretty clear that this dude is wielding both weapons, with no mention of TWF penalties.I agree that he would be wielding both weapons. I believe the previous defending issues weren't over wielding so much as using: "the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon" I'm not saying that it's beyond debate, but the intent still seems just as applicable (since defending didn't change between editions), and the same author wrote both that FAQ answer and the recent RotG article on TWF'ing that you quoted. Here is the 3.0 description of defending (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdmagicitemsweapons.rtf): "Defending A defender weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon’s enhancement bonus to his or her AC as a special bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his or her turn before using the weapon, and the effect to AC lasts until the wielder’s next turn. Caster Level: 8th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, shield or shield of faith; Market Price: +1 bonus." Here is the 3.5 description of defending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#defending): "Defending A defending weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the sword’s enhancement bonus to his AC as a bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon’s enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the effect to AC lasts until his next turn. Moderate abjuration; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, shield or shield of faith; Price +1 bonus. "
kjenks 10-14-06, 09:42 AM	Your screen name has not been involved in this long debate. We've already covered that old FAQ entry in our previous discussion.
mvincent 10-15-06, 12:04 AM	Your screen name has not been involved in this long debate.I certainly was in the the previous debate that you mentioned (which covered alot about wielding, but not much about the FAQ entry). I also participated in many others on the WotC boards (and the ENWorld boards) We've already covered that old FAQ entry in our previous discussion.Not very well in the discussions I've been in on the WotC boards. The debate you referenced was not as detailed as the one's I participated in on the ENWorld boards.
Mitchell 10-15-06, 12:29 AM	Oh, I was going to put my .02 in, but since it seems that one has to have been involved in some prior discussion to participate here... Nah, I'm going to speak up anyway... It doesn't say that you don't take the penalties either. TWF has been involved in a lot of discussion and debate as to exactly what it is and isn't, or when it is or isn't, anyway. If the DM wants non-shield users to get away with free shield use, that's their call. If a DM wants to let someone use a reach weapon and threaten all adjacent squares also without taking a feat with the spiked chain or TWF, that's their call. It won't, however, be my call.