defense tactics [Archive] - Wizards Community

defense tactics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
savonian
03-31-06, 12:07 AM I have a couple of quick questions that I'm reasonably certain I all ready know the answers too, but I'd just like to double check.

1. Is it possible to both Fight Defensively and Combat Expertise in combat, and still use your attack for using Aid Other to buff an ally's attack or ac? Or are you limited to making actual attacks to your foe.

2. For using a weapon in your offhand that has a buckler strapped to it, the -1 to hit penalty only applies to that hand, correct? So if you were wielding a long sword in your main hand, and a short sword in your buckler wielding offhand, only the short sword gets the penalty. Or if you have a buckler and use a weapon in two hands, you'd get the penalty then as well.

Am I correct in my assumptions? Thanks
strumbleduck
03-31-06, 12:25 AM 1. Is it possible to both Fight Defensively and Combat Expertise in combat, and still use your attack for using Aid Other to buff an ally's attack or ac? Or are you limited to making actual attacks to your foe.
Hmm . . . tough one. Aid Another is a standard action, and there's no evidence that it counts as an "attack action", so I wouldn't think you could use it in conjunction with fighting defensively or Combat Expertise.

For using a weapon in your offhand that has a buckler strapped to it, the -1 to hit penalty only applies to that hand, correct? So if you were wielding a long sword in your main hand, and a short sword in your buckler wielding offhand, only the short sword gets the penalty. Or if you have a buckler and use a weapon in two hands, you'd get the penalty then as well.
That's right. Keep in mind that you don't get the AC bonus for the buckler while using the hand to wield a weapon.
fatal error
03-31-06, 12:55 AM Wait wait, so you have to make an attack to use combat expertise/fighting defensively? That seems kind of ridiculous.
strumbleduck
03-31-06, 01:02 AM From the SRD description of Combat Expertise:

When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class.
I think there was an FAQ entry where the sage ruled that that a character could declare an attack action (using up a standard action) and then not actually make any attacks, thereby still receiving the AC bonus.

The point, though, is that Combat Expertise and fighting defensively can't be used when casting spells or performing other actions. They also can't be used in conjunction with the total defense action.
SureFoot
03-31-06, 02:36 PM Hmm . . . tough one. Aid Another is a standard action, and there's no evidence that it counts as an "attack action", so I wouldn't think you could use it in conjunction with fighting defensively or Combat Expertise.

Actually, I'd argue that there *is* evidence to support it's an attack action.

-you must threaten ("in a position to make a melee attack")
-you are making an attack roll (vs. AC 10)

I see no reason to not allow someone to Fight Defensively with or without Combat Expertise when using Aid Another in melee. (gives your rogue a reason to flank with an SA-immune creature!)
meatrace
03-31-06, 04:25 PM Wait wait, so you have to make an attack to use combat expertise/fighting defensively? That seems kind of ridiculous.

the names Combat expertise and Fighting defensively didn't clue you in ;)
you can still take a full defense(standard action) if you need an AC boost.
fatal error
03-31-06, 04:35 PM Yea, but it means I can't use combat expertise and take full defense, which seems odd since I can use combat expertise and fight defensively.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
savonian 03-31-06, 12:07 AM	I have a couple of quick questions that I'm reasonably certain I all ready know the answers too, but I'd just like to double check. 1. Is it possible to both Fight Defensively and Combat Expertise in combat, and still use your attack for using Aid Other to buff an ally's attack or ac? Or are you limited to making actual attacks to your foe. 2. For using a weapon in your offhand that has a buckler strapped to it, the -1 to hit penalty only applies to that hand, correct? So if you were wielding a long sword in your main hand, and a short sword in your buckler wielding offhand, only the short sword gets the penalty. Or if you have a buckler and use a weapon in two hands, you'd get the penalty then as well. Am I correct in my assumptions? Thanks
strumbleduck 03-31-06, 12:25 AM	1. Is it possible to both Fight Defensively and Combat Expertise in combat, and still use your attack for using Aid Other to buff an ally's attack or ac? Or are you limited to making actual attacks to your foe. Hmm . . . tough one. Aid Another is a standard action, and there's no evidence that it counts as an "attack action", so I wouldn't think you could use it in conjunction with fighting defensively or Combat Expertise. For using a weapon in your offhand that has a buckler strapped to it, the -1 to hit penalty only applies to that hand, correct? So if you were wielding a long sword in your main hand, and a short sword in your buckler wielding offhand, only the short sword gets the penalty. Or if you have a buckler and use a weapon in two hands, you'd get the penalty then as well. That's right. Keep in mind that you don't get the AC bonus for the buckler while using the hand to wield a weapon.
fatal error 03-31-06, 12:55 AM	Wait wait, so you have to make an attack to use combat expertise/fighting defensively? That seems kind of ridiculous.
strumbleduck 03-31-06, 01:02 AM	From the SRD description of Combat Expertise: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. I think there was an FAQ entry where the sage ruled that that a character could declare an attack action (using up a standard action) and then not actually make any attacks, thereby still receiving the AC bonus. The point, though, is that Combat Expertise and fighting defensively can't be used when casting spells or performing other actions. They also can't be used in conjunction with the total defense action.
SureFoot 03-31-06, 02:36 PM	Hmm . . . tough one. Aid Another is a standard action, and there's no evidence that it counts as an "attack action", so I wouldn't think you could use it in conjunction with fighting defensively or Combat Expertise. Actually, I'd argue that there is evidence to support it's an attack action. -you must threaten ("in a position to make a melee attack") -you are making an attack roll (vs. AC 10) I see no reason to not allow someone to Fight Defensively with or without Combat Expertise when using Aid Another in melee. (gives your rogue a reason to flank with an SA-immune creature!)
meatrace 03-31-06, 04:25 PM	Wait wait, so you have to make an attack to use combat expertise/fighting defensively? That seems kind of ridiculous. the names Combat expertise and Fighting defensively didn't clue you in ;) you can still take a full defense(standard action) if you need an AC boost.
fatal error 03-31-06, 04:35 PM	Yea, but it means I can't use combat expertise and take full defense, which seems odd since I can use combat expertise and fight defensively.