Deflect Arrows & Arrow Deflection [Archive] - Wizards Community

Deflect Arrows & Arrow Deflection [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rironin
03-24-06, 12:47 PM From the SRD, Deflect Arrows Feat:
You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted.The old 3.0 rules regarding Reflex saves have been removed from this feat. But the Arrow Deflection shield enhancement seems to be unchanged:From the SRD, Arrow Deflection Enhancement:
This shield protects the wielder as if he had the Deflect Arrows feat. Once per round when he would normally be struck by a ranged weapon, he can make a DC 20 Reflex save. If the ranged weapon has an enhancement bonus, the DC increases by that amount. If he succeeds, the shield deflects the weapon. He must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.Is this correct? The enhancement description implies that it gives an ability similar to the feat, but the mechanics it describes appear outdated. Thanks!
Nephlite
03-24-06, 01:18 PM The old 3.0 rules regarding Reflex saves have been removed from this feat. But the Arrow Deflection shield enhancement seems to be unchanged:Is this correct? The enhancement description implies that it gives an ability similar to the feat, but the mechanics it describes appear outdated. Thanks!

I guess it was either a copy/paste job or they decided the shield ability would be too good if it was really like the feat.
tarkin
03-24-06, 01:22 PM I think leaving it as is was done on purpose.

Otherwise, there would be a stacking issue of you had the feat and took the shield.

As is, they are clearly different abilities, and should stack.
Nephlite
03-24-06, 01:51 PM I think leaving it as is was done on purpose.

Otherwise, there would be a stacking issue of you had the feat and took the shield.

As is, they are clearly different abilities, and should stack.
How often do they stack?
Most humanoids only have two arms. One for a shield we have to assume is used up. So the guy must fight unarmed or with a guantlet to use Deflect
arrow.

Unless you are a Thri-kreen with arms: rarely will you find someone able to use both effectively.

After all, Monks can't use shield or lose most abilities (monks are most of the unarmed warriors).
rironin
03-24-06, 01:53 PM Ah, you beat me to it, Nephlite! :P

I agree. The stacking issue might be a valid reason, although it seems to me that these things weren't really designed to stack anyways, since the Deflect Arrows feat description states that "You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat." Therefore, I suppose you could stack these effects if you were running around with an Arrow Deflection shield in one hand and nothing in the other, but otherwise it wouldn't work. In fact, it was that part of the feat description that made me go looking for the shield enhancement - I was expecting to find an ability just like the feat, but obviously one you could use with your shield instead of empty-handed.

I feel that the change they made to the feat was a good one - with all the Reflex stuff, I would never have considered taking it. Do you feel that leaving the shield enhancement description as it appears in the SRD is worth the +2 enhancement bonus? I probably wouldn't bother with it myself, especially if I'm a heavily-armored (and relatively low-Dex) fighter. Unless it would be over-powered, I would want to rule that the shield enhancement effectively gives the wielder the Deflect Arrows feat and the special ability to apply that feat using the shield instead of an empty hand, and forget all the Reflex Save business. I think it could be really fun to get an Arrow Deflection, Arrow Catching Shield and run around knocking arrows away from you and your friends.

Would it be over-powered to interpret the Arrow Deflection ability in this way? I am still suspicious of the description in the SRD, which states that "This shield protects the wielder as if he had the Deflect Arrows feat" but then goes on to list properties that sound like the old 3.0 version of said feat and not the updated version.
Lotus Crane
03-24-06, 03:12 PM I'd think updating the shield to match the 3.5 feat wouldn't be too broken, and might in fact be a welcome change. After all, how often do you think somebody using a shield is going to make a DC 20 Reflex save? I don't see too many rogues or rangers using shields, and not many fighters or paladins have a reason to boost their Dex (though at least paladins have Divine Grace working for them).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rironin 03-24-06, 12:47 PM	From the SRD, Deflect Arrows Feat: You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted.The old 3.0 rules regarding Reflex saves have been removed from this feat. But the Arrow Deflection shield enhancement seems to be unchanged:From the SRD, Arrow Deflection Enhancement: This shield protects the wielder as if he had the Deflect Arrows feat. Once per round when he would normally be struck by a ranged weapon, he can make a DC 20 Reflex save. If the ranged weapon has an enhancement bonus, the DC increases by that amount. If he succeeds, the shield deflects the weapon. He must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.Is this correct? The enhancement description implies that it gives an ability similar to the feat, but the mechanics it describes appear outdated. Thanks!
Nephlite 03-24-06, 01:18 PM	The old 3.0 rules regarding Reflex saves have been removed from this feat. But the Arrow Deflection shield enhancement seems to be unchanged:Is this correct? The enhancement description implies that it gives an ability similar to the feat, but the mechanics it describes appear outdated. Thanks! I guess it was either a copy/paste job or they decided the shield ability would be too good if it was really like the feat.
tarkin 03-24-06, 01:22 PM	I think leaving it as is was done on purpose. Otherwise, there would be a stacking issue of you had the feat and took the shield. As is, they are clearly different abilities, and should stack.
Nephlite 03-24-06, 01:51 PM	I think leaving it as is was done on purpose. Otherwise, there would be a stacking issue of you had the feat and took the shield. As is, they are clearly different abilities, and should stack. How often do they stack? Most humanoids only have two arms. One for a shield we have to assume is used up. So the guy must fight unarmed or with a guantlet to use Deflect arrow. Unless you are a Thri-kreen with arms: rarely will you find someone able to use both effectively. After all, Monks can't use shield or lose most abilities (monks are most of the unarmed warriors).
rironin 03-24-06, 01:53 PM	Ah, you beat me to it, Nephlite! :P I agree. The stacking issue might be a valid reason, although it seems to me that these things weren't really designed to stack anyways, since the Deflect Arrows feat description states that "You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat." Therefore, I suppose you could stack these effects if you were running around with an Arrow Deflection shield in one hand and nothing in the other, but otherwise it wouldn't work. In fact, it was that part of the feat description that made me go looking for the shield enhancement - I was expecting to find an ability just like the feat, but obviously one you could use with your shield instead of empty-handed. I feel that the change they made to the feat was a good one - with all the Reflex stuff, I would never have considered taking it. Do you feel that leaving the shield enhancement description as it appears in the SRD is worth the +2 enhancement bonus? I probably wouldn't bother with it myself, especially if I'm a heavily-armored (and relatively low-Dex) fighter. Unless it would be over-powered, I would want to rule that the shield enhancement effectively gives the wielder the Deflect Arrows feat and the special ability to apply that feat using the shield instead of an empty hand, and forget all the Reflex Save business. I think it could be really fun to get an Arrow Deflection, Arrow Catching Shield and run around knocking arrows away from you and your friends. Would it be over-powered to interpret the Arrow Deflection ability in this way? I am still suspicious of the description in the SRD, which states that "This shield protects the wielder as if he had the Deflect Arrows feat" but then goes on to list properties that sound like the old 3.0 version of said feat and not the updated version.
Lotus Crane 03-24-06, 03:12 PM	I'd think updating the shield to match the 3.5 feat wouldn't be too broken, and might in fact be a welcome change. After all, how often do you think somebody using a shield is going to make a DC 20 Reflex save? I don't see too many rogues or rangers using shields, and not many fighters or paladins have a reason to boost their Dex (though at least paladins have Divine Grace working for them).