Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oompa 03-20-05, 11:05 AM	3rd edition rules :) Some things to straight up about delay and ready an action.. Delaying an action would bring me lower on the initiative list, is that for rest of combat or do i move up again to my old spot next round? About readying and action, what if you have initiative list of 22 18 14 9 6 And i have 18 lets say i ready an action, i ready him and wait till someone does something at the 22 initiative, that will be me action in that round, so will my new inititiave be 22 for rest of the combat? or will it be 18 again next round? Or am i completly wrong here..
BW0222 03-20-05, 11:14 AM	>Delaying an action would bring me lower on the initiative list, is that for rest >of combat or do i move up again to my old spot next round? Your initiative changes to the point you re-enter initiative. >22 >18 >14 >9 >6 >And i have 18 lets say i ready an action, i ready him and wait till someone >does something at the 22 initiative, that will be me action in that round, so >will my new inititiave be 22 for rest of the combat? or will it be 18 again >next round? Your initiative changes to immediately prior to their initiative for the rest of the combat (or you do something else to change it, ready another action and/or delay). 22, normal action. 18, you ready. 14, 9, and 6, normal actions 22, he starts. Your readied action it triggered. Then he finishes his action. Your initiative count chances to 22+. 14, 9, and 6, normal actions. 22+, You go. 22, he goes 14, 9, and 6, normal actions. etc.
Oompa 03-20-05, 11:16 AM	Ok, so a delay would be per round and a ready for rest of combat :)
McBard 03-20-05, 11:40 AM	Ok, so a delay would be per round and a ready for rest of combat If I understand what you're saying here, then--no--delay would also be "for the rest of combat." That is, both delay an action and ready an action change your initiative count thereafter. Using your above example, if on initiative count 18 you decided to delay, and then on, let's say, initiative count 4 you decided to act, then your initiative count for the rest of combat would be 4.
Oompa 03-20-05, 11:49 AM	Ohhh ok... i think i get it now, with delay i can only do that per round and get only lower initiative.. And with ready i can get higher initiative but it will lose me a round of combat? Like refocusing?
Cindre2000 03-20-05, 01:32 PM	No, With Delay, you are waiting to a later point to do your thing. Your initiative is 18 but you want to wait for the cleric to cast bless before doing anything, so you wait for the cleric's turn (init 4) and then you go. Your initiative is now 4- for the rest of the encounter, unless you ready an action or delay. Then, 3 rounds later you are going to wait for the wizard to cast fireball. You delay from your 4-, until the wizard's turn (init 22) then you go on initiative 22-. In readying an action, you state a clause and if that situation comes up, you get to make an action (not a full turn); however you can do something before another player/creature does. For example: The wizard has an initiative of 22. She wants to magic missle first goblin when it runs in the room. The goblins initiative is 20. The goblin opens the door; the wizard interupts and fire's her magic missle. (Init is now 20+). The goblin survives and now it can finish/start its turn. The wizard now always goes right before that goblin. ---- So the basic difference is with delay, you still get your full turn; however you lose initiative (or a turn) and can only REACT to situations. With readying an action; you state a clause and are allowed to perform the action you stated when a situation happens. The upside is you often perform your action before the enemy does (therefore you might prevent the enemy's action); however, you lose initiative (or a turn) and you can only react to that one clause.
BW0222 03-20-05, 02:01 PM	Oompa, >Ok, so a delay would be per round and a ready for rest of combat There really isn't any concept of per round once initiative starts. A round is simply the time from one person's turn to their next turn in the initiative order. Initiative is just the order in which people do things. >Ohhh ok... i think i get it now, with delay i can only do that per round and >get only lower initiative.. No. If you have an 18 initiative, you can delay until it's your initiative again. You delay, the DM goes to any 17, 16, 15, etc. initiatives, down to 0, then back up to the highest initiative (say 22), then 21, 20, 19, and then 18. If you are delaying, you can choose to re-enter initiative after anyone elses turn. You can end up with a 'higher' initiative number from delaying, since you could delay through 17, 16..., 2, 1, 0, 22 and go after the 22 in the initiative order. Your initiative is then 22-. >And with ready i can get higher initiative but it will lose me a round of >combat? Like refocusing? You can get a higher or lower initiative number from readying an action, same as delaying. In both cases, you are deciding to take actions at a later point in combat, so you are never getting anything for free. If it helps... try getting a stack of index cards and going through a simple combat. Assume the DM is using index cards (or paper strips) to track initiative order. You have PC1, PC2, PC3, and Orc1 and Orc2. The intiatives are 12, 18, 4, 9, and 17. The DM writes the names down on flash cards and puts them in decending order. (He can then forget the numbers). Combat begins with the cards in the following order: PC2, Orc2, PC1, Orc1, and PC3. PC2s card is on top so she goes first. She moves up to an Orc1, attacks and misses. The DM puts PC2s card from the top of the stack and puts it on the bottom. Orc2s card is now and top, so it's his initiative. He takes out a scroll and moves. His card goes to the bottom of the pile. PC1 is next, he decides that he doesn't like that orc with the scroll, so he takes out his bow and readies an action to shot the orc if he casts a spell. The DM puts a note on the card and moves it to the bottom of the pile. Orc1 is next, he attacks PC2 and hits. Card goes to the bottom. PC3 is thinking about casting an area spell, but PC2 is in the way. She yells "Get back" and delays. The DM takes the card out of the stack and hands it to the PC, saying let me know when you wish to go next. PC2 is next. She widthdraws back hoping to clear the way for PC3. Orc2s card is now on the top, he goes next. He starts casting that scroll. However, PC1 has a readied action which is triggered. The DM searches through the pile and finds PC1s index card. He places it on top. PC1 now gets his readied action -- fires his bow at the orc. He hits, does damage, but the orc makes his concentration check. The DM then places PC1s card back to the bottom of the pile. Orc2s card is still on top so, he can continue his turn. He finishes casting his spell, and tosses up a protection from good spell on himself. Card goes to the bottom of the pile. (Notice that PC1s card is ahead of Orc2s. His next action now comes up just prior to the next action of creature which triggered the readied action. Current order is Orc1, PC2, PC1, Orc2 with PC3 delaying) At this point, PC3 decides to enter initative. He passes his card to the DM who puts it on the top of the time. PC3 goes next moves forward and casts burning hards, getting both orcs. The roll their saves and take damage. Orc2 (already hit by an arrow) drops to -8 hp and falls unconcious. Orc1 takes damage but is still concious. DM finished by moving PC3s card to the bottom. (Current card order Orc1, PC2, PC1, Orc2, PC3) Orc1 is now on deck, he takes out and throwing axe, throws it at PC2 and yells "Coward" in orcish. He hits. PC2 is next, she charges Orc1, hits with her sword and drops him to -6. (At this point combat is all but over.) PC1 moves up beside Orc1 and puts an arrow into him to be sure. DM toss Orc1s card away (he's dead). Orc2 goes next, but all he can do is try to stablize. PC3 walks up to him and finishes him with his staff. Notice that you can run the entire combat without initiative numbers, other than to order the cards inititally. Once combat starts, it's the order, not the numbers which count. The concept of rounds also becomes somewhat meaningless. Try a few combats using index cards and you'll get an idea of how things work.
Oompa 03-22-05, 01:18 AM	Oompa, >Ok, so a delay would be per round and a ready for rest of combat There really isn't any concept of per round once initiative starts. A round is simply the time from one person's turn to their next turn in the initiative order. Initiative is just the order in which people do things. >Ohhh ok... i think i get it now, with delay i can only do that per round and >get only lower initiative.. No. If you have an 18 initiative, you can delay until it's your initiative again. You delay, the DM goes to any 17, 16, 15, etc. initiatives, down to 0, then back up to the highest initiative (say 22), then 21, 20, 19, and then 18. If you are delaying, you can choose to re-enter initiative after anyone elses turn. You can end up with a 'higher' initiative number from delaying, since you could delay through 17, 16..., 2, 1, 0, 22 and go after the 22 in the initiative order. Your initiative is then 22-. >And with ready i can get higher initiative but it will lose me a round of >combat? Like refocusing? You can get a higher or lower initiative number from readying an action, same as delaying. In both cases, you are deciding to take actions at a later point in combat, so you are never getting anything for free. If it helps... try getting a stack of index cards and going through a simple combat. Assume the DM is using index cards (or paper strips) to track initiative order. You have PC1, PC2, PC3, and Orc1 and Orc2. The intiatives are 12, 18, 4, 9, and 17. The DM writes the names down on flash cards and puts them in decending order. (He can then forget the numbers). Combat begins with the cards in the following order: PC2, Orc2, PC1, Orc1, and PC3. PC2s card is on top so she goes first. She moves up to an Orc1, attacks and misses. The DM puts PC2s card from the top of the stack and puts it on the bottom. Orc2s card is now and top, so it's his initiative. He takes out a scroll and moves. His card goes to the bottom of the pile. PC1 is next, he decides that he doesn't like that orc with the scroll, so he takes out his bow and readies an action to shot the orc if he casts a spell. The DM puts a note on the card and moves it to the bottom of the pile. Orc1 is next, he attacks PC2 and hits. Card goes to the bottom. PC3 is thinking about casting an area spell, but PC2 is in the way. She yells "Get back" and delays. The DM takes the card out of the stack and hands it to the PC, saying let me know when you wish to go next. PC2 is next. She widthdraws back hoping to clear the way for PC3. Orc2s card is now on the top, he goes next. He starts casting that scroll. However, PC1 has a readied action which is triggered. The DM searches through the pile and finds PC1s index card. He places it on top. PC1 now gets his readied action -- fires his bow at the orc. He hits, does damage, but the orc makes his concentration check. The DM then places PC1s card back to the bottom of the pile. Orc2s card is still on top so, he can continue his turn. He finishes casting his spell, and tosses up a protection from good spell on himself. Card goes to the bottom of the pile. (Notice that PC1s card is ahead of Orc2s. His next action now comes up just prior to the next action of creature which triggered the readied action. Current order is Orc1, PC2, PC1, Orc2 with PC3 delaying) At this point, PC3 decides to enter initative. He passes his card to the DM who puts it on the top of the time. PC3 goes next moves forward and casts burning hards, getting both orcs. The roll their saves and take damage. Orc2 (already hit by an arrow) drops to -8 hp and falls unconcious. Orc1 takes damage but is still concious. DM finished by moving PC3s card to the bottom. (Current card order Orc1, PC2, PC1, Orc2, PC3) Orc1 is now on deck, he takes out and throwing axe, throws it at PC2 and yells "Coward" in orcish. He hits. PC2 is next, she charges Orc1, hits with her sword and drops him to -6. (At this point combat is all but over.) PC1 moves up beside Orc1 and puts an arrow into him to be sure. DM toss Orc1s card away (he's dead). Orc2 goes next, but all he can do is try to stablize. PC3 walks up to him and finishes him with his staff. Notice that you can run the entire combat without initiative numbers, other than to order the cards inititally. Once combat starts, it's the order, not the numbers which count. The concept of rounds also becomes somewhat meaningless. Try a few combats using index cards and you'll get an idea of how things work. Ok i get it, but isnt there a limit on delay? on ready i know you can take on like forever but delay was -10 plus youre initiative bonus?
Tony Vargas 03-22-05, 12:59 PM	Ok i get it, but isnt there a limit on delay? on ready i know you can take on like forever but delay was -10 plus youre initiative bonus? That really only aplies when two or more characters are delaying, the one with the lowest initiative has to commit to an action before the others. It was a pretty minor rule in 3.0 that rarely came up, and I don't even remember if it stayed in 3.5 - technically, you delayed to the bottom of the round (-10 less your initiative bonus or something like that), then 'Refocused' so that you were ready to start delaying again on 20+init bonus the next round. Kinda pointless, really.
Oompa 03-23-05, 01:07 AM	That really only aplies when two or more characters are delaying, the one with the lowest initiative has to commit to an action before the others. It was a pretty minor rule in 3.0 that rarely came up, and I don't even remember if it stayed in 3.5 - technically, you delayed to the bottom of the round (-10 less your initiative bonus or something like that), then 'Refocused' so that you were ready to start delaying again on 20+init bonus the next round. Kinda pointless, really. Ok.. so the real difference between ready and delay is.. With delay you can take a full turn before someones else or after someone else's initiative.. And with ready you take a partial action when someone do's something so you can react to that.. So.. what if someone say's i ready an action to shoot the dragon with my bow when he starts to fly, can he only shoot when he starts to fly? Or can he say, i dont shoot the dragon, i shoot the orc.. ??
BW0222 03-23-05, 01:30 AM	>Ok.. so the real difference between ready and delay is.. >With delay you can take a full turn before someones else or after someone >else's initiative.. Correct. >And with ready you take a partial action when someone do's something so >you can react to that.. No more "partial" actions in 3.5, it's just a standard action. >So.. what if someone say's i ready an action to shoot the dragon with my >bow when he starts to fly, can he only shoot when he starts to fly? Yes. If the dragon doesn't fly off, then you continue going through the order until you get back to the initiative. You have basically lost your standard action for the previous turn. >Or can he say, i dont shoot the dragon, i shoot the orc.. ?? No. You need to describe what it is you are going to do and when. You may choose not to take the readied action (your initiative remains where it was), but you can't decide to take a different action. Readying is typically a gamble. It may make an action occur at a more opportune time, but it risks the action being lost.
Nom 03-23-05, 01:44 AM	Ok i get it, but isnt there a limit on delay? on ready i know you can take on like forever but delay was -10 plus youre initiative bonus?Both ready and delay have a limit, in that if you reach the point where your turn normally would have occurred without activating your readied action / delayed turn then your readied action / delayed turn is lost and your next turn begins. Of course, you may promptly ready / delay again. The follow-up questions are answered by BW0222. You can't change or abort a readied action, though in some situations the DM may allow you to not take a readied action when you otherwise are eligible to do so (see discussion in DMG). In the rare case where two opposing characters want to take a delayed action at the same time or to resolve opposing readied actions, you have a few choices: - whoever claims first. - the most / least recent one to declare the delay / ready action. - special initiative roll (which only decides who gets to go). In any case, the person who doesn't go first is not committed to use their action, though a ready may trigger if the conditions are still valid.
Oompa 03-23-05, 10:16 AM	I understand it now.. Thank you all for helping :)