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Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vaalingrade Ashland
05-03-06, 03:43 PM Screw it. Delete please
Ged Coldplain
05-03-06, 04:57 PM Sorry, but this tread should be called: “WARNING: prepare to cry blood as the agony of the weapon weight reveals itself.”

Sorry, but I am in a sarcastic mood today so here goes: Your “dire blade” weighs 150 pounds, if I use it the wrong way or as a large pointy IMPROVISED two-handed weapon (like ummm… just holding it wrong and beating stuff with it) it’s sheer weight will deal a whooping 4d6 points of damage… wait, as it is written in Table 4-7: improvised weapon damage on page 159 of the complete warrior™, a sharp object (here a broken bottle is used as an example) will deal twice the noted damage, using this logic, your weapon, with it’s unholy weight, if used as a improvised weapon, deals 8d6 points of damage, Need I say more.

Actually, I will just go for the spiked lump of iron with handles weighing 150lb, as it will ALSO deal 8d6 points of damage… BEHOLD, the lump of POWER is even cheaper… using common logic(dnd logic that is), I could buy 150lb iron for 1 silver a pound (jup that’s the price) and have someone make it spiky(I dunno the price, armour spikes for large armour is about 100gp, so go for twice that), getting the improvised weapon of doom… sure a -4 to hit is sort of bad… but for 215 gp it’s a sure winner.

Now your weapon description says that a creature without the feat can’t even use it, now with enough str anyone can pick it up and wield it… as a sharp metal piece weighing at 150lb… or as it is also known: a improvised weapon, as a improvised weapon it has many benefits, as it can be stowed, and drawn as a move action, and used effectively in any environment, regardless of space (that is, you need a free 5ft. square)

So for 300gp anyone with 21 str (light load 153 pounds) can use the fabled 8d6 20x2 -4 to hit weapon, that is if they do NOT possess the feat.
Vaalingrade Ashland
05-03-06, 06:44 PM REMOVED
Verelor
05-03-06, 07:32 PM Feudal, hindu, compact minotaurs, Vaalingrade? Perhaps it's time for a race rename. :)

The weights...hehe. I've taken some verbal lessons from Master Vahenir and studied real-life combat some myself and let me tell you, there is no feasable way a 100-something pound weapon is even fight-liftable for a medium-size creature. There is no way such a weapon can be a useful one for a large creature. It's as easy as picking up your best friend and using him in a fight, whether you're an olympic weightlifter or not. The weights are pretty rediculous. As for the changes you should make, I am not truly sure how to help you there, not if you want to maintain concept. As 15-foot sword is a rediculous weapon even for a troll to try to wield effectively. The damage doesn't even approach the fact of requiring a feat to use a weapon and the fact that it weighs as much as a human. Forget adding one and a half strength to the weapon regardless of it being two-handed; you'd be spending most of your strength just holding it in your hands.

That Shinai, though, I love that. You made a great replacation of chinese wooden training weaponry. Keep that up, friend. :)
Vaalingrade Ashland
05-03-06, 07:50 PM REMOVED
Rulebook
05-03-06, 09:00 PM you seem to have difficulty in picturing what a greatsword looked like.

Cloud's buster sword did not exist in history, ever. when you see greatsword, think "Braveheart" not "final fantasy or anime" the blade you ahve on that thing is squat and wide, which makes it nice for a ceremonial blade.

secondly, have you ever tried to lift 150lbs? okay lets be fair and take a sizeable chunk of what you can lift compared to a minotaur... go get bar from a weight set (they weigh what, 40 lbs?) and try to swing it like a sword.

yeah, you didnt get ANYWHERE with that did you? because its too dang heavy to wield as a sword! you might get one or two swings before arm fatigue sets in and you're useless in a fight.

ive heard of giant 10lb swords before, but if i remember right they werent much on the battlefield, and kept a ceremonial position (dont ask me for any more than that though, i dont remember, and may in fact be mistaken) even assuming a minotaur is twice as strong as a human, it would mean that thier weapons might only be 2-3 times as heavy, making 30lbs the upper limit to what they'll wield, and 15lbs the upper of what they'd LIKE to wield.

in short, your weapons are both unbalanced and useless. daggers are superior weapons.
Mogarth_Warheart
05-03-06, 09:20 PM "Direblades, also called minotaur hunting swords are massive iron swords, with blades of upwards of ten feet long. They rarely have guards or pommels to speak of."

a pommel is a counter weight if you could ever have a 150 lb sword ( which you couldn't [as noted above]) you would have to have a pommel of at least i would say 50lb to somewaht counter the weight and even at that you still count swing it well if at all.
Verelor
05-03-06, 09:29 PM I'll go easy on you considering that was ASCII art, friend, but anything close to a useful greatsword has never been more than 2/3 that proportional width.

But yeah, I am very nurturing to my fellow campaign designers, but I have to tell you those two sowrds are pretty sketchy work. Another, less obvious criticism: Why are the critical modifiers so poor? A slightly curved sword that somehow actually hits with this sort of a force is more likely to work in a guillotine fashion than anything else. :)

In short, why would a minotaur use these weapons when he could be using a little piece of glass?
Vaalingrade Ashland
05-03-06, 10:05 PM DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE.
Silverthumb128
05-04-06, 01:15 AM DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE.

This I agree with.
fatal error
05-04-06, 04:40 PM 'Tis a shame the people of this forum are so quick to express their unconstructive criticism. I actually thought the weapons were quite interesting (though I didn't even look at the weight, in fact, I've never looked at a weapon's weight in D&D) and had some nice culture background. Somewhat absurd in design? Sure. But they're Minotaurs, they're allowed to be a little absurd in their weapon sizes (even if they are medium). And it was a nice reprieve from the endless stream of katanas and double weapons.

Although, the question remains, why wouldn't you simply take the bit of advice hidden in three paragraphs of insults and change the weight to something reasonable? 150lbs. is like swinging around a person as a sword, whether you're a minotaur or not, any medium sized creature doesn't have a chance of doing anything in combat with such a heavy weapon. My recommendation? Drop the weight some, otherwise I think it's a perfectly fine relatively fantastic weapon. Although, as I said, I didn't even see the weight before these posts pointed it out.
Bulletproof_Condom
05-04-06, 06:41 PM DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE.
Well if that's the case, then you can do whatever you want. What difference does it make what the rest of us think about rediculously huge swords?
Vaalingrade Ashland
05-04-06, 07:59 PM Although, the question remains, why wouldn't you simply take the bit of advice hidden in three paragraphs of insults and change the weight to something reasonable? 150lbs. is like swinging around a person as a sword, whether you're a minotaur or not, any medium sized creature doesn't have a chance of doing anything in combat with such a heavy weapon. My recommendation? Drop the weight some, otherwise I think it's a perfectly fine relatively fantastic weapon. Although, as I said, I didn't even see the weight before these posts pointed it out.
In the second post, I had already said that I'd cheerfully change the weight and asked for suggestions. I use my home made templates for when I make equipment/spells, what have you and I didn't really care what weight I put down, so I put down a number that said 'damn heavy' to me.

I don't make new weapons often. I hate the seemingly random exotics that get thrown about and try to avoid it.

In fact, I've only made one other non-firearm for DnD; the kari'dakai (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6769612#post6769612), which was very well accepted.
fatal error
05-04-06, 09:09 PM Ah, I didn't check this thread until after you'd deleted everything.
Thorak
05-04-06, 09:20 PM DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE.
While the original posts have been deleted, this attitude is a pet peeve. I won't, however, explain why it's such a ridiculous stance. I'll let Poul Anderson, someone who's actually had a working, award-winning career in the field of fantasy fiction, do so; "On Thud and Blunder" (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/thud.htm)

Sure, you can houserule things like this and do whatever you like in your own campaign setting. The price is your campaign setting being ridiculous and silly. If that's okay with you, go nuts.
Verelor
05-04-06, 09:25 PM We love you and your work, Ashland, and we understand that D&D is certainly not real life, but I don't think you should give up. The first two weapons really weren't eastern in any way, shape, or form, but the wooden training implement you designed had great potential. There are a LOT of obscure eastern weapons that have never even been considered for Oriental Adventures (such as that one chinese spear with the colored mane on it).
Vaalingrade Ashland
05-04-06, 09:56 PM We love you and your work, Ashland, and we understand that D&D is certainly not real life
Thorack and some guy with some random fiction awards don't. :P

but I don't think you should give up.
Thread abandonment is not giving up. Its giving up on the Equipment Boards. The Direblade and Daizaku are still in the equipment file for WoE and once I do some playtesting on the restrictions, they'll go on the main site.

The first two weapons really weren't eastern in any way, shape, or form,
The minotaurs, however, are.

but the wooden training implement you designed had great potential.
Danke. But the shinai is an actual thing. Its another name for 'kendo stick'.

There are a LOT of obscure eastern weapons that have never even been considered for Oriental Adventures (such as that one chinese spear with the colored mane on it).
I think you misinterpret my purpose. I wasn't trying to make any eastern weapons. The eastern flavor was the minotaur culture that surrounds the weapons and gave birth to them. The sword as hunting knife is lifted wholecloth from the Bagavadghita (sp?) and the honor sword/coming of age ceremony its a mix of chinese, japanese and thai traditions.
jaelis
05-04-06, 11:06 PM Make them weigh 20 and 30 pounds (if I recall the two of them correctly). That would be super macho for your minotaurs, but not in the realm of ridiculous.

Edit: and don't worry about Poul Anderson, I heard he's always grumpy 'cause Heinlein gets the babes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-03-06, 03:43 PM	Screw it. Delete please
Ged Coldplain 05-03-06, 04:57 PM	Sorry, but this tread should be called: “WARNING: prepare to cry blood as the agony of the weapon weight reveals itself.” Sorry, but I am in a sarcastic mood today so here goes: Your “dire blade” weighs 150 pounds, if I use it the wrong way or as a large pointy IMPROVISED two-handed weapon (like ummm… just holding it wrong and beating stuff with it) it’s sheer weight will deal a whooping 4d6 points of damage… wait, as it is written in Table 4-7: improvised weapon damage on page 159 of the complete warrior™, a sharp object (here a broken bottle is used as an example) will deal twice the noted damage, using this logic, your weapon, with it’s unholy weight, if used as a improvised weapon, deals 8d6 points of damage, Need I say more. Actually, I will just go for the spiked lump of iron with handles weighing 150lb, as it will ALSO deal 8d6 points of damage… BEHOLD, the lump of POWER is even cheaper… using common logic(dnd logic that is), I could buy 150lb iron for 1 silver a pound (jup that’s the price) and have someone make it spiky(I dunno the price, armour spikes for large armour is about 100gp, so go for twice that), getting the improvised weapon of doom… sure a -4 to hit is sort of bad… but for 215 gp it’s a sure winner. Now your weapon description says that a creature without the feat can’t even use it, now with enough str anyone can pick it up and wield it… as a sharp metal piece weighing at 150lb… or as it is also known: a improvised weapon, as a improvised weapon it has many benefits, as it can be stowed, and drawn as a move action, and used effectively in any environment, regardless of space (that is, you need a free 5ft. square) So for 300gp anyone with 21 str (light load 153 pounds) can use the fabled 8d6 20x2 -4 to hit weapon, that is if they do NOT possess the feat.
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-03-06, 06:44 PM	REMOVED
Verelor 05-03-06, 07:32 PM	Feudal, hindu, compact minotaurs, Vaalingrade? Perhaps it's time for a race rename. :) The weights...hehe. I've taken some verbal lessons from Master Vahenir and studied real-life combat some myself and let me tell you, there is no feasable way a 100-something pound weapon is even fight-liftable for a medium-size creature. There is no way such a weapon can be a useful one for a large creature. It's as easy as picking up your best friend and using him in a fight, whether you're an olympic weightlifter or not. The weights are pretty rediculous. As for the changes you should make, I am not truly sure how to help you there, not if you want to maintain concept. As 15-foot sword is a rediculous weapon even for a troll to try to wield effectively. The damage doesn't even approach the fact of requiring a feat to use a weapon and the fact that it weighs as much as a human. Forget adding one and a half strength to the weapon regardless of it being two-handed; you'd be spending most of your strength just holding it in your hands. That Shinai, though, I love that. You made a great replacation of chinese wooden training weaponry. Keep that up, friend. :)
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-03-06, 07:50 PM	REMOVED
Rulebook 05-03-06, 09:00 PM	you seem to have difficulty in picturing what a greatsword looked like. Cloud's buster sword did not exist in history, ever. when you see greatsword, think "Braveheart" not "final fantasy or anime" the blade you ahve on that thing is squat and wide, which makes it nice for a ceremonial blade. secondly, have you ever tried to lift 150lbs? okay lets be fair and take a sizeable chunk of what you can lift compared to a minotaur... go get bar from a weight set (they weigh what, 40 lbs?) and try to swing it like a sword. yeah, you didnt get ANYWHERE with that did you? because its too dang heavy to wield as a sword! you might get one or two swings before arm fatigue sets in and you're useless in a fight. ive heard of giant 10lb swords before, but if i remember right they werent much on the battlefield, and kept a ceremonial position (dont ask me for any more than that though, i dont remember, and may in fact be mistaken) even assuming a minotaur is twice as strong as a human, it would mean that thier weapons might only be 2-3 times as heavy, making 30lbs the upper limit to what they'll wield, and 15lbs the upper of what they'd LIKE to wield. in short, your weapons are both unbalanced and useless. daggers are superior weapons.
Mogarth_Warheart 05-03-06, 09:20 PM	"Direblades, also called minotaur hunting swords are massive iron swords, with blades of upwards of ten feet long. They rarely have guards or pommels to speak of." a pommel is a counter weight if you could ever have a 150 lb sword ( which you couldn't [as noted above]) you would have to have a pommel of at least i would say 50lb to somewaht counter the weight and even at that you still count swing it well if at all.
Verelor 05-03-06, 09:29 PM	I'll go easy on you considering that was ASCII art, friend, but anything close to a useful greatsword has never been more than 2/3 that proportional width. But yeah, I am very nurturing to my fellow campaign designers, but I have to tell you those two sowrds are pretty sketchy work. Another, less obvious criticism: Why are the critical modifiers so poor? A slightly curved sword that somehow actually hits with this sort of a force is more likely to work in a guillotine fashion than anything else. :) In short, why would a minotaur use these weapons when he could be using a little piece of glass?
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-03-06, 10:05 PM	DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE.
Silverthumb128 05-04-06, 01:15 AM	DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE. This I agree with.
fatal error 05-04-06, 04:40 PM	'Tis a shame the people of this forum are so quick to express their unconstructive criticism. I actually thought the weapons were quite interesting (though I didn't even look at the weight, in fact, I've never looked at a weapon's weight in D&D) and had some nice culture background. Somewhat absurd in design? Sure. But they're Minotaurs, they're allowed to be a little absurd in their weapon sizes (even if they are medium). And it was a nice reprieve from the endless stream of katanas and double weapons. Although, the question remains, why wouldn't you simply take the bit of advice hidden in three paragraphs of insults and change the weight to something reasonable? 150lbs. is like swinging around a person as a sword, whether you're a minotaur or not, any medium sized creature doesn't have a chance of doing anything in combat with such a heavy weapon. My recommendation? Drop the weight some, otherwise I think it's a perfectly fine relatively fantastic weapon. Although, as I said, I didn't even see the weight before these posts pointed it out.
Bulletproof_Condom 05-04-06, 06:41 PM	DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE. Well if that's the case, then you can do whatever you want. What difference does it make what the rest of us think about rediculously huge swords?
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-04-06, 07:59 PM	Although, the question remains, why wouldn't you simply take the bit of advice hidden in three paragraphs of insults and change the weight to something reasonable? 150lbs. is like swinging around a person as a sword, whether you're a minotaur or not, any medium sized creature doesn't have a chance of doing anything in combat with such a heavy weapon. My recommendation? Drop the weight some, otherwise I think it's a perfectly fine relatively fantastic weapon. Although, as I said, I didn't even see the weight before these posts pointed it out. In the second post, I had already said that I'd cheerfully change the weight and asked for suggestions. I use my home made templates for when I make equipment/spells, what have you and I didn't really care what weight I put down, so I put down a number that said 'damn heavy' to me. I don't make new weapons often. I hate the seemingly random exotics that get thrown about and try to avoid it. In fact, I've only made one other non-firearm for DnD; the kari'dakai (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6769612#post6769612), which was very well accepted.
fatal error 05-04-06, 09:09 PM	Ah, I didn't check this thread until after you'd deleted everything.
Thorak 05-04-06, 09:20 PM	DnD, despite everyone's most feverish attempts IS NOT REAL LIFE. While the original posts have been deleted, this attitude is a pet peeve. I won't, however, explain why it's such a ridiculous stance. I'll let Poul Anderson, someone who's actually had a working, award-winning career in the field of fantasy fiction, do so; "On Thud and Blunder" (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/thud.htm) Sure, you can houserule things like this and do whatever you like in your own campaign setting. The price is your campaign setting being ridiculous and silly. If that's okay with you, go nuts.
Verelor 05-04-06, 09:25 PM	We love you and your work, Ashland, and we understand that D&D is certainly not real life, but I don't think you should give up. The first two weapons really weren't eastern in any way, shape, or form, but the wooden training implement you designed had great potential. There are a LOT of obscure eastern weapons that have never even been considered for Oriental Adventures (such as that one chinese spear with the colored mane on it).
Vaalingrade Ashland 05-04-06, 09:56 PM	We love you and your work, Ashland, and we understand that D&D is certainly not real life Thorack and some guy with some random fiction awards don't. :P but I don't think you should give up. Thread abandonment is not giving up. Its giving up on the Equipment Boards. The Direblade and Daizaku are still in the equipment file for WoE and once I do some playtesting on the restrictions, they'll go on the main site. The first two weapons really weren't eastern in any way, shape, or form, The minotaurs, however, are. but the wooden training implement you designed had great potential. Danke. But the shinai is an actual thing. Its another name for 'kendo stick'. There are a LOT of obscure eastern weapons that have never even been considered for Oriental Adventures (such as that one chinese spear with the colored mane on it). I think you misinterpret my purpose. I wasn't trying to make any eastern weapons. The eastern flavor was the minotaur culture that surrounds the weapons and gave birth to them. The sword as hunting knife is lifted wholecloth from the Bagavadghita (sp?) and the honor sword/coming of age ceremony its a mix of chinese, japanese and thai traditions.
jaelis 05-04-06, 11:06 PM	Make them weigh 20 and 30 pounds (if I recall the two of them correctly). That would be super macho for your minotaurs, but not in the realm of ridiculous. Edit: and don't worry about Poul Anderson, I heard he's always grumpy 'cause Heinlein gets the babes.