Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ContainsQuinine 08-19-07, 08:43 AM	If you are subject to an effect that lowers your DEX ie: entangled (-4 DEX) and that effect completely negates your DEX Bonus ie: someone with a 12 DEX(=1) Does that count as being "Denied your DEX bonus" per the rule for rogue sneak attacks? Do rogues et Sneak attack damage?
runestar 08-19-07, 08:52 AM	No. You still have a dex bonus (albeit a non-existant one) for purposes of interacting with sneak attack.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-19-07, 08:58 AM	Nope, you still have your Dex bonus, it's just lower. Even if it gets dropped into the Dex penalty range (or is in that range naturally) it's still not a denial. Creatures are denied their Dex bonuses to AC if they're: Flat-footed Stunned Paralyzed Running Incapable of seeing their attacker (they're blinded, or the attacker is invisible) Cowering Unconscious Grappled (only denied Dex bonus against characters not grappling with them) and probably one or two things I've forgotten about that somebody else will come along and mention.
Neutronium_Dragon 08-19-07, 09:13 AM	One other situation that I can think of is that if you're unable to maneuver for some reason, you may be denied your Dex bonus. A common example is a combat on a narrow ledge (or even a tightrope).
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-19-07, 09:16 AM	Ahh yes, climbing without a climb speed, and some cases of balancing will do it too, as will squeezing through a space IIRC.
ContainsQuinine 08-19-07, 09:20 AM	Follow up question then. Someone with a DEX penalty (8 DEX at -1) is "Denied DEX Bonus" Is that person actually better off then not being able to move? Do they LOSE their -1 penalty?
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-19-07, 09:26 AM	That's a good question. I've seen reasonable claims on both sides ("of course not, it makes no sense to be better defended when you're flat-footed when you're aware," "yes, at that point you're so clumsy you actively hurt yourself trying to defend yourself," etc). As far as I can tell, the printed rules don't make an exception for losing your Dex mod to AC when that mod is a negative number, and it hasn't received official errata, but the FAQ type material suggests that's not the way it's supposed to work. IOW, yes they do actually lose the penalty to AC while flat-footed, but expect that one to be house ruled more often than it's not.
primemover003 08-19-07, 12:24 PM	Follow up question then. Someone with a DEX penalty (8 DEX at -1) is "Denied DEX Bonus" Is that person actually better off then not being able to move? Do they LOSE their -1 penalty? OK look at what you just asked... You're denied your Dex BONUS. A penalty is not a bonus. Both bonuses and penalties are modifiers, but one is not the other. If you have a dex penalty of -1 and you are caught flat footed and are wearing no armor your AC is (10 + Dex mod + misc) or in this case AC 9. You can be denied your DEX bonus, but you're never denied the penalty. It's quite clear in the rules Armor Class Your Armor Class (AC) represents how hard it is for opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you. It’s the attack roll result that an opponent needs to achieve to hit you. Your AC is equal to the following: 10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier + size modifier Note that armor limits your Dexterity bonus, so if you’re wearing armor, you might not be able to apply your whole Dexterity bonus to your AC. Sometimes you can’t use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one). If you can’t react to a blow, you can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC. (If you don’t have a Dexterity bonus, nothing happens.) Ability Modifiers Each ability, after changes made because of race, has a modifier ranging from -5 to +5. Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells shows the modifier for each score. It also shows bonus spells, which you’ll need to know about if your character is a spellcaster. The modifier is the number you apply to the die roll when your character tries to do something related to that ability. You also use the modifier with some numbers that aren’t die rolls. A positive modifier is called a bonus, and a negative modifier is called a penalty. Flat-Footed At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed. A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity.