Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Divisionbyzer0 02-07-08, 12:42 AM	I posted this in the thread about possibilities on optimizing my character but it more appropriately belongs in this forum I guess. Here's a technical question about dervish dance. Let's say I enter melee with a single opponent who is 15 feet away, and I have two attacks with my normal hand and one with my offhand. The description of dervish dance says to get the full attack if you take a move action you have to move at least 5 feet in between separate attacks; so I move up to his or her front and make an attack, now to make the second attack could I move diagonally to a square that flanks the opponent make the attack, then move to the rear and make the offhand attack? How many times can an opponent adjust their facing per round? And would these moves incur attacks of opportunity? If so, I guess this is where having mobility comes in handy.
Seerow 02-07-08, 01:37 AM	D&D has no facing, so the oponent can turn to face you as often as you can move. All movements incur AoOs unless the ability states otherwise. This is where having maxed tumble ranks and a good dex come in handy. It's DC what, 25? To not suffer any AoOs ever
mplindustries 02-07-08, 01:49 AM	DC 25 is for tumbling through someone's square. Usually you just need to make DC 15. The DC goes up by 2 for each additional opponent that threatens you. As far as moving diagonally, you could, but diagonal movment is 1.5 squares rounded down, so you'd have moved three squares after the second shift, not just two. Additionally, you can only provoke one AoO per opponent for a particular action, and moving is considered all one action, even if you attack during it. You'd only provoke once (per opponent), or none at all if you tumble. And yes, obviously, there is no facing in D&D 3.X.
Divisionbyzer0 02-07-08, 02:03 AM	DC 25 is for tumbling through someone's square. Usually you just need to make DC 15. The DC goes up by 2 for each additional opponent that threatens you. As far as moving diagonally, you could, but diagonal movment is 1.5 squares rounded down, so you'd have moved three squares after the second shift, not just two. Additionally, you can only provoke one AoO per opponent for a particular action, and moving is considered all one action, even if you attack during it. You'd only provoke once (per opponent), or none at all if you tumble. And yes, obviously, there is no facing in D&D 3.X. Is going diagonal considered tumbling through his square? I mean from front square facing her through the diagonal to the flank. So this type of move does provoke and AoO then even though you are not really moving away from her? OR are you suggesting that by just tumbling through and making the check you evade the AoO essentially? Also, I was under the impression that you could adjust your facing once per round? Looks like I gots to reread the combat chapter :P
Zog_Jakome 02-07-08, 02:11 AM	you could add facing though, rules in the unearthed arcana detail facing rules. to answer your second question the answer is once per round as a free action however when you take a move action you can change your direction everytime you enter a square. the answer to your first question is yes you can move diagonally like that. the answer to your 3rd question is yes your movement provokes attacks of opportunity. you can make DC 15 tumble checks to avoid the attack of opportunity. however unless they have combat reflexes they only get one attack of opportunity per round so once they attack you via attack of opportunity that's it. and on top of that you only need to make one tumble check. it gets more difficult to tumble when you are in the threatened square of more than one creature.
mplindustries 02-07-08, 02:12 AM	Is going diagonal considered tumbling through his square? I mean from front square facing her through the diagonal to the flank. So this type of move does provoke and AoO then even though you are not really moving away from her? OR are you suggesting that by just tumbling through and making the check you evade the AoO essentially? Also, I was under the impression that you could adjust your facing once per round? Looks like I gots to reread the combat chapter :P Moving diagonal is not considered tumbling through. This type of move does provoke an AoO unless you make the tumble check to negate it. Also, adjusting your facing was in AD&D, but has never had a place in D&D 3.0 or 3.5.
Lyndis 02-07-08, 02:27 AM	Meh. Don't tumble. Instead, provoke the AoO, and let them miss you. Then use Elusive Reflexes to get a free Trip attempt on them. you've already got Dodge and Mobility, so why not get ELusive Target as well?
Divisionbyzer0 02-07-08, 02:36 AM	Meh. Don't tumble. Instead, provoke the AoO, and let them miss you. Then use Elusive Reflexes to get a free Trip attempt on them. you've already got Dodge and Mobility, so why not get ELusive Target as well? No certainty that they will miss though. No certainty the tumble will work either I guess, so you have a point.
rjsilverthorn 02-07-08, 06:05 AM	Meh. Don't tumble. Instead, provoke the AoO, and let them miss you. Then use Elusive Reflexes to get a free Trip attempt on them. you've already got Dodge and Mobility, so why not get ELusive Target as well? I was actually working on a Dervish build the other day that was going to work along those lines. I had 2 Swordsage levels in it for the Wis to AC bonus, access to Child of Shadows stance and a few other goodies.