Destruction of magical gear. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Destruction of magical gear. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nubman76
08-14-07, 03:32 PM What are the limitations of magical gear that are on your character to be destroyed while you wear them. For example i got a some magical gloves and and ring of lightning flashes what would it take for them to be destroyed while i'm wearing them. My gloves that i have imbues my punches with frost, shock and collision. Do certain items have a set amount of hp, hardness and stuff like that.

I need some help cause i think my DM is gonna try and dick me on em. And i know what the DM says is what happens but he said if we had the cash we could buy magical gear. I bought a Ring of Lightning Flashes and Gloves with Frost, Shock and Collision. He was okay when everyone else in the group bought whatever they wanted but as soon as i bought these items he doesn't like that i now do more damage since i'm a monk and i needed some more damage since i am the main fighter in combat for the group. But our latest encounter we were fighting these big worm things and i got shoved half way into its mouth and he said everything from the waist up was burnt off due to its acidic saliva. I figured yeah my robes, and all my hair from the waist up was burnt off but my magic stuff should still be good. But we ended there after the fight and he said nothing of it.
See my thinking on this is if a bunch of high levels are fighting lets say a dragon and lets say a majority of the group is hit by it then all there hard earned gear is just gone with the blast, no all the mundane stuff should be but not the magical stuff due to the fact they are magical and therefore more durable that regular non-magical stuff. So i'm hoping he lets me keep the items but since his shun of them and his favoritism he shows to the other members of the group i think he's gonna F me in the end. So thats why i'm wondering what the official rules were on the destruction of magic items.

Thanks for any info given. :banghead:
wonlee76
08-14-07, 03:40 PM DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS
A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might deal damage to them— even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic item’s saving throw bonus equals 2 + one-half its caster level (round down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores.

Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.

Plus:

Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack deal.

If an item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.

Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks

Order Item
1st Shield
2nd Armor
3rd Magic helmet, hat, or headband
4th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like)
5th Magic cloak
6th Stowed or sheathed weapon
7th Magic bracers
8th Magic clothing
9th Magic jewelry (including rings)
10th Anything else
In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.
tarkin
08-14-07, 03:40 PM Ways to destroy WORN magical items. (Rules for unattended objects are very different)

1. Target the item with a Sunder. See Sunder for rules. Placement, Hardness and hitpoints are the main defenses here.

2. Target the wearer with a spell that specifically SAYS it destoys attended items, such as Rusting Grasp. Varies with the spell, usually a to hit required or a save negates.

3. The victim rolls a natural one on a save on a physical attack, such as fireball. This is extremely unlikely,

4. Someone casts Mage's Moronic Disjunction. Very nasty, hard to protect against. Best protections I have seen are:
a. anti-magic, b. magic item that DM rules counts as antimagic, such as the Cube of Force if the DM is being reasonable/pleasant. c. Having an artifact around to totally screw over the Moron that cast Disjunction.
Jamesks
08-14-07, 05:32 PM While Wonlee76 and Tarkin have listed the offical rules for magic item destruction, the simple fact that being partially shallowed by a monster cost you everything from the waist up most likely means you have a DM with a PC magic/power hate problem and a limited imagination. So I wouldn't plan on keeping your hands on anything that the DM feels spoils his fun or even puts you in the position of a fair fight against his NPCs.
BaseDeltaZero
08-14-07, 11:36 PM Ways to destroy WORN magical items. (Rules for unattended objects are very different)

1. Target the item with a Sunder. See Sunder for rules. Placement, Hardness and hitpoints are the main defenses here.

2. Target the wearer with a spell that specifically SAYS it destoys attended items, such as Rusting Grasp. Varies with the spell, usually a to hit required or a save negates.

3. The victim rolls a natural one on a save on a physical attack, such as fireball. This is extremely unlikely,

4. Someone casts Mage's Moronic Disjunction. Very nasty, hard to protect against. Best protections I have seen are:
a. anti-magic, b. magic item that DM rules counts as antimagic, such as the Cube of Force if the DM is being reasonable/pleasant. c. Having an artifact around to totally screw over the Moron that cast Disjunction.

5. Use an attack that deals damage to a large area and does not allow a save. (Like a pit of magma, or a gelatinous cube)

Also, Mage's (Mordekainen's, whichever you prefer) disjunction rocks. It's balanced by the fact it destroys all your buddies magic items too. And it helps keep the magic item count down, which is always good. Artifact penalty needs to be toned down though.
Kouk
08-15-07, 02:07 AM If you know he wants you to lose those items, just ask for a refund.
tarkin
08-15-07, 10:36 AM 5. Use an attack that deals damage to a large area and does not allow a save. (Like a pit of magma, or a gelatinous cube)

Also, Mage's (Mordekainen's, whichever you prefer) disjunction rocks. It's balanced by the fact it destroys all your buddies magic items too. And it helps keep the magic item count down, which is always good. Artifact penalty needs to be toned down though.

I called Mage's Disjunction moronic because I think that you have to be foolish to use it. It has the single WORST negative effect in the entire core rules. Anyone can rise from the dead. Angering a god like being and losing your spellcasting so that not even a wish or miracle can restore it is far worse.

It is in effect, the first of the epic penalties, and by the time you can cast it the odds are pretty good that you have run into at least a minor artifact (Deck of Many things?) before, so one could very well be around.

It is sort of like a kid winner of a shooting contest that never shot a live man before agreeing to a gunfight with the first guy that walks into the bar even though he knows that Wild Bill Hickok is in town and likes to hang out in that particular bar.

You have to be pretty stupid to cast the spell without at least first checking to see if an artifact is around. Even then, you should still do it cautiously.

Unless your DM just ignores the rules of course.
Kouk
08-15-07, 06:53 PM I called Mage's Disjunction moronic because I think that you have to be foolish to use it. It has the single WORST negative effect in the entire core rules. Anyone can rise from the dead. Angering a god like being and losing your spellcasting so that not even a wish or miracle can restore it is far worse.

It is in effect, the first of the epic penalties, and by the time you can cast it the odds are pretty good that you have run into at least a minor artifact (Deck of Many things?) before, so one could very well be around.

It is sort of like a kid winner of a shooting contest that never shot a live man before agreeing to a gunfight with the first guy that walks into the bar even though he knows that Wild Bill Hickok is in town and likes to hang out in that particular bar.

You have to be pretty stupid to cast the spell without at least first checking to see if an artifact is around. Even then, you should still do it cautiously.

Unless your DM just ignores the rules of course.

Hey, Adventurers live life on the edge. As rare as artifacts are, it's even rarer to just randomly come across someone that's holding one, without information in advance.

And, if you are in the Forgotten Realms and are attached to a deity, opposing deities may not even want to punish you directly for fear of reprisal. And, if you are in Eberron, then the deities don't really give a rat's butt what you do.
unfortunate_crow
08-15-07, 07:16 PM Hell, I open every combat with a Disjunction. Any magic items that are worn get to use their owner's saving throw, btw. Also, I've only got a 20-odd% chance of disjoining an artifact even if there is one around.

It's great watching the enemy try to take down a spontaneous-casting arcane gish with only a portion of their magic items.
unusualsuspect
08-15-07, 08:44 PM Hell, I open every combat with a Disjunction. Any magic items that are worn get to use their owner's saving throw, btw. Also, I've only got a 20-odd% chance of disjoining an artifact even if there is one around.

It's great watching the enemy try to take down a spontaneous-casting arcane gish with only a portion of their magic items.

And the loot must be great.

Wait, you DISJOINED ALL THE LOOT.

Ugh. I don't think I could ever use that spell unless the **** had already hit a windtunnel fan. Too costly, too dangerous.
unfortunate_crow
08-15-07, 09:35 PM We're level 20 already. The only loot worth having we're already wearing ;)

Anyways, the most valuable stuff there is the coins, gems, and art objects. Most of the high-magic loot is too expensive to walk into a pawn shop and sell.
primemover003
08-15-07, 10:08 PM Man I don't even wanna talk about losing magic gear... last week my PsyWar 12 lost his Celestial chain to a freaking Rust monster attack... my AC dropped 8 points and we're still in the middle of the dungeon:weep:

Thankfully I had the highest AC in the party @ 29, now I'm right around everyone else before buffing and Combat Expertise...

2 + 1/2 caster level really isn't much of a save, especially for armor and weapons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nubman76 08-14-07, 03:32 PM	What are the limitations of magical gear that are on your character to be destroyed while you wear them. For example i got a some magical gloves and and ring of lightning flashes what would it take for them to be destroyed while i'm wearing them. My gloves that i have imbues my punches with frost, shock and collision. Do certain items have a set amount of hp, hardness and stuff like that. I need some help cause i think my DM is gonna try and dick me on em. And i know what the DM says is what happens but he said if we had the cash we could buy magical gear. I bought a Ring of Lightning Flashes and Gloves with Frost, Shock and Collision. He was okay when everyone else in the group bought whatever they wanted but as soon as i bought these items he doesn't like that i now do more damage since i'm a monk and i needed some more damage since i am the main fighter in combat for the group. But our latest encounter we were fighting these big worm things and i got shoved half way into its mouth and he said everything from the waist up was burnt off due to its acidic saliva. I figured yeah my robes, and all my hair from the waist up was burnt off but my magic stuff should still be good. But we ended there after the fight and he said nothing of it. See my thinking on this is if a bunch of high levels are fighting lets say a dragon and lets say a majority of the group is hit by it then all there hard earned gear is just gone with the blast, no all the mundane stuff should be but not the magical stuff due to the fact they are magical and therefore more durable that regular non-magical stuff. So i'm hoping he lets me keep the items but since his shun of them and his favoritism he shows to the other members of the group i think he's gonna F me in the end. So thats why i'm wondering what the official rules were on the destruction of magic items. Thanks for any info given. :banghead:
wonlee76 08-14-07, 03:40 PM	DAMAGING MAGIC ITEMS A magic item doesn’t need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save. Magic items should always get a saving throw against spells that might deal damage to them— even against attacks from which a nonmagical item would normally get no chance to save. Magic items use the same saving throw bonus for all saves, no matter what the type (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will). A magic item’s saving throw bonus equals 2 + one-half its caster level (round down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores. Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost. Plus: Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack deal. If an item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage. Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks Order Item 1st Shield 2nd Armor 3rd Magic helmet, hat, or headband 4th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like) 5th Magic cloak 6th Stowed or sheathed weapon 7th Magic bracers 8th Magic clothing 9th Magic jewelry (including rings) 10th Anything else In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.
tarkin 08-14-07, 03:40 PM	Ways to destroy WORN magical items. (Rules for unattended objects are very different) 1. Target the item with a Sunder. See Sunder for rules. Placement, Hardness and hitpoints are the main defenses here. 2. Target the wearer with a spell that specifically SAYS it destoys attended items, such as Rusting Grasp. Varies with the spell, usually a to hit required or a save negates. 3. The victim rolls a natural one on a save on a physical attack, such as fireball. This is extremely unlikely, 4. Someone casts Mage's Moronic Disjunction. Very nasty, hard to protect against. Best protections I have seen are: a. anti-magic, b. magic item that DM rules counts as antimagic, such as the Cube of Force if the DM is being reasonable/pleasant. c. Having an artifact around to totally screw over the Moron that cast Disjunction.
Jamesks 08-14-07, 05:32 PM	While Wonlee76 and Tarkin have listed the offical rules for magic item destruction, the simple fact that being partially shallowed by a monster cost you everything from the waist up most likely means you have a DM with a PC magic/power hate problem and a limited imagination. So I wouldn't plan on keeping your hands on anything that the DM feels spoils his fun or even puts you in the position of a fair fight against his NPCs.
BaseDeltaZero 08-14-07, 11:36 PM	Ways to destroy WORN magical items. (Rules for unattended objects are very different) 1. Target the item with a Sunder. See Sunder for rules. Placement, Hardness and hitpoints are the main defenses here. 2. Target the wearer with a spell that specifically SAYS it destoys attended items, such as Rusting Grasp. Varies with the spell, usually a to hit required or a save negates. 3. The victim rolls a natural one on a save on a physical attack, such as fireball. This is extremely unlikely, 4. Someone casts Mage's Moronic Disjunction. Very nasty, hard to protect against. Best protections I have seen are: a. anti-magic, b. magic item that DM rules counts as antimagic, such as the Cube of Force if the DM is being reasonable/pleasant. c. Having an artifact around to totally screw over the Moron that cast Disjunction. 5. Use an attack that deals damage to a large area and does not allow a save. (Like a pit of magma, or a gelatinous cube) Also, Mage's (Mordekainen's, whichever you prefer) disjunction rocks. It's balanced by the fact it destroys all your buddies magic items too. And it helps keep the magic item count down, which is always good. Artifact penalty needs to be toned down though.
Kouk 08-15-07, 02:07 AM	If you know he wants you to lose those items, just ask for a refund.
tarkin 08-15-07, 10:36 AM	5. Use an attack that deals damage to a large area and does not allow a save. (Like a pit of magma, or a gelatinous cube) Also, Mage's (Mordekainen's, whichever you prefer) disjunction rocks. It's balanced by the fact it destroys all your buddies magic items too. And it helps keep the magic item count down, which is always good. Artifact penalty needs to be toned down though. I called Mage's Disjunction moronic because I think that you have to be foolish to use it. It has the single WORST negative effect in the entire core rules. Anyone can rise from the dead. Angering a god like being and losing your spellcasting so that not even a wish or miracle can restore it is far worse. It is in effect, the first of the epic penalties, and by the time you can cast it the odds are pretty good that you have run into at least a minor artifact (Deck of Many things?) before, so one could very well be around. It is sort of like a kid winner of a shooting contest that never shot a live man before agreeing to a gunfight with the first guy that walks into the bar even though he knows that Wild Bill Hickok is in town and likes to hang out in that particular bar. You have to be pretty stupid to cast the spell without at least first checking to see if an artifact is around. Even then, you should still do it cautiously. Unless your DM just ignores the rules of course.
Kouk 08-15-07, 06:53 PM	I called Mage's Disjunction moronic because I think that you have to be foolish to use it. It has the single WORST negative effect in the entire core rules. Anyone can rise from the dead. Angering a god like being and losing your spellcasting so that not even a wish or miracle can restore it is far worse. It is in effect, the first of the epic penalties, and by the time you can cast it the odds are pretty good that you have run into at least a minor artifact (Deck of Many things?) before, so one could very well be around. It is sort of like a kid winner of a shooting contest that never shot a live man before agreeing to a gunfight with the first guy that walks into the bar even though he knows that Wild Bill Hickok is in town and likes to hang out in that particular bar. You have to be pretty stupid to cast the spell without at least first checking to see if an artifact is around. Even then, you should still do it cautiously. Unless your DM just ignores the rules of course. Hey, Adventurers live life on the edge. As rare as artifacts are, it's even rarer to just randomly come across someone that's holding one, without information in advance. And, if you are in the Forgotten Realms and are attached to a deity, opposing deities may not even want to punish you directly for fear of reprisal. And, if you are in Eberron, then the deities don't really give a rat's butt what you do.
unfortunate_crow 08-15-07, 07:16 PM	Hell, I open every combat with a Disjunction. Any magic items that are worn get to use their owner's saving throw, btw. Also, I've only got a 20-odd% chance of disjoining an artifact even if there is one around. It's great watching the enemy try to take down a spontaneous-casting arcane gish with only a portion of their magic items.
unusualsuspect 08-15-07, 08:44 PM	Hell, I open every combat with a Disjunction. Any magic items that are worn get to use their owner's saving throw, btw. Also, I've only got a 20-odd% chance of disjoining an artifact even if there is one around. It's great watching the enemy try to take down a spontaneous-casting arcane gish with only a portion of their magic items. And the loot must be great. Wait, you DISJOINED ALL THE LOOT. Ugh. I don't think I could ever use that spell unless the **** had already hit a windtunnel fan. Too costly, too dangerous.
unfortunate_crow 08-15-07, 09:35 PM	We're level 20 already. The only loot worth having we're already wearing ;) Anyways, the most valuable stuff there is the coins, gems, and art objects. Most of the high-magic loot is too expensive to walk into a pawn shop and sell.
primemover003 08-15-07, 10:08 PM	Man I don't even wanna talk about losing magic gear... last week my PsyWar 12 lost his Celestial chain to a freaking Rust monster attack... my AC dropped 8 points and we're still in the middle of the dungeon:weep: Thankfully I had the highest AC in the party @ 29, now I'm right around everyone else before buffing and Combat Expertise... 2 + 1/2 caster level really isn't much of a save, especially for armor and weapons.