Determining magic weapon price [Archive] - Wizards Community

Determining magic weapon price [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Icel
01-17-05, 04:10 PM *edited*

Hello all.
First of all, I don't know if this sould be in this forum or in the Magic and Spells forum, so if I was wrong posting this here, please move the thread.

Now, I need some help Determining the price of a magic weapon, which has the following properties:
A +2 keen basterd sword with 1/day Imprisonment, will/ detect good, 1/week freedom.

Thank you.
Kyaran
01-17-05, 05:51 PM Base weapon: bastard sword, masterwork = 335 gp
Base magical enhancements: +2 keen = 18,000 gp
Magic item abilities: imprisonment 1/day, detect good at will, freedom 1/week = :eek:

Ok, let's do math...
Non-slotted command word imprisonment (9*17*1800/5*2) = 110,160 gp
Non-slotted command word freedom (9*17*1800/5*1.5) = 82,620 gp (divide by 7 or 10, depending on your definition of week)
Non-slotted command word detect good (1*1*1800*1) = 1,800 gp

18,335 + 110,160 + 8,262 + 1,800 = 138,557 gp for the 10-day week
18,335 + 110,160 + 11,803 + 1,800 = 142,098 gp for the 7-day week

Not quite epic or artifact level, but really not cheap. And don't go trying to get a discount for requiring paladin (or somesuch) levels to use; that's not a hindrance to the creator of it and would be a security measure, so should result in an increase in price.

This is using the Multiple Similar Abilities section of the sidebar on DMG p.282, as weapons are not slotted items. This states that the highest cost ability is normal priced (at x2), the second is at 75% (or 150% overall), and any remaining are at 50% (of x2, which means 100%).
Icel
01-18-05, 05:49 AM First of all, thank you very much.

Now, there is a story behind this weapon. His abilities came before the mechanics. No specific character is able to wield it- the weapon chooses its wielder.

If I want that the Imprisonment spell will be activated by a certain condition and not by a command word, how this will affect the price? Because the spell is supposed to take place when a drop of fresh blood (that of the victim) touches to blade.

Some other questions:
1. What does "Non-slotted" means?
2. Why do you multiply the imprisonment price by 2, and the freedom by 1.5?

oh, and I ment a 7 day week :) .
Kyaran
01-18-05, 08:05 PM To have the imprisonment activate only on certain conditions, we wander into the realm of subjective pricing. One way to do it would be to change the pricing from Command word to Use-activated, where 'use' is touching fresh blood. This increases the price from 110,160 gp to 122,400 gp; net change +12,240 gp.
Another method would be using the Craft Contingent Spell feat from Complete Arcane and adding 15,300 gp (SL*CL*100) to the item. This is both more expensive and requires another feat.
I'd probably strike a balance and allow this item to be created using either the Craft Contingent Spell feat or the spell contingency for around 13,500 gp extra.

Keep in mind: this price is the market price. Crafting the item takes less gold but requires XP. This is my 'finished' write-up. Feel free to change the description, obviously.
Dark Gaoler's Blade: This +2 keen bastard sword is used by favored servants of greater devils. The bearers of these blades are tasked with disposing of servants of good, but leaving them ready for later 'questioning'. The blade allows the bearer to use the spells imprisonment once per day, freedom once per week, and detect good at will.
Strong abjuration and faint divination; CL 17th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Contingent Spell or contingency, imprisonment, freedom, keen edge, detect good; Price 155,598 gp; Cost 77,799 gp + 6,224 XP.
"Non-slotted" means the item imbued with the spell/effect doesn't take a slot on the character's body as defined in "Magic Items on the Body" DMG p.214.
The slots are, vaguely: head, eyes, neck, torso, belt, armor, bracers, gloves/gauntlets, rings, boots, cloak.
Since a weapon doesn't take one of these valuable slots, it costs more. This is in exchange for the ability to quickly switch out the item in the middle of combat.
For instance, if you have a Ring of Evasion in your bag and you want to wear it (so you can be better protected against the squad of mages with wands of fireball), but you're already wearing your Ring of Elemental Command (Water) and Ring of Sustenance, you have to take an action to get the ring out, another to remove a ring, a third to put on the new ring, and a fourth to put away the displaced ring. A weapon only requires a move action to draw (and none if you have quick draw or combine it with actual movement), and a move action to put away. You also generally start by drawing the weapon you'll want to use, so changing a slotted item takes 4 actions (minimum) and a non-slotted one can take as little as a free action.

The reason for multiplying the prices by 2, 1.5, and 1 are from the Multiple Similar Abilities section of the sidebar on DMG p.282, as I noted. The sidebar allows for price reduction when a single non-slotted item has more than 1 ability. Slotted items get more expensive as you add abilities, since they have resrictions on use. Non-slotted items cost more at the outset to offset the loss of those restrictions, but as you add more abilities the trade-off moves towards slotted items being more valuable and you're given a break on the price increase.

As the sidebar says: "Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities." Since all non-slotted item abilities are doubled to begin with, we start with the most expensive ability at 200%. The next ability is also at 200%, but is reduced to 75% of that, which is a total of 150% of the normal price. The remaining abilities cost 50% of the doubled price, so they end up costing 100% of the normal price.

Also... you said "the weapon chooses its wielder." This sounds suspiciously like you're looking at an intelligent item. Intelligent items are different and much more freaky. Check out the Intelligent Items section of the DMG on p.268. This sword as an intelligent item would cost more like 130,000.
Breakdown:
Base magic sword = 18,335
Top ranking item with 2 mental stats at 19, 1 mental stat at 10, speech, telepathy, 4 lesser powers, 3 greater powers, 120' darkvision, blindsense, and hearing = +15,000
Lesser powers: detect magic at will (3600), hold person 3/day (6500), daze monster 3/day (6500), locate object 3/day (6500) = +23,100
Greater powers: detect good at will (7200), Special purpose with 2 Dedicated Powers of imprisonment 1/day (50000) and freedom 1/week (20000) = +70000 (Price loosely based on 130,000 gp cost of greater shout 3/day)
Ego: 2 enhancement + 1 ability + 4 lesser powers + 1 greater power + 4 special purpose + 2 secondary dedicated power + 8 ability bonuses = 22 (This allows the item to try to force obedience from its possessor with a Will save DC 22)
Price: 126,435 gp
This is significantly cheaper, and there's a good reason. If the sword doesn't like what it's being used for, it won't cooperate, and may even try to take over the character's mind briefly.

And you're welcome. Always glad to help. :)
Icel
01-19-05, 05:51 AM And again, thank you! You have been very helpful.
What I meant about choosing the wielder is not for the weapon to be intelligent per se, but similar to "The One Ring". It is conscious to itself and the environment, but don't speak or think. It follows its goal and in order to accomplish it, the sword "bring" herself to an appropriate wielder.

For final note, your story for the sword was quite good, but I thought on a diffrent one (something about the god of vengeance seeking to imprison good heros). In addition, you gave me the technical detail, which is very helpful, so thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Icel 01-17-05, 04:10 PM	edited Hello all. First of all, I don't know if this sould be in this forum or in the Magic and Spells forum, so if I was wrong posting this here, please move the thread. Now, I need some help Determining the price of a magic weapon, which has the following properties: A +2 keen basterd sword with 1/day Imprisonment, will/ detect good, 1/week freedom. Thank you.
Kyaran 01-17-05, 05:51 PM	Base weapon: bastard sword, masterwork = 335 gp Base magical enhancements: +2 keen = 18,000 gp Magic item abilities: imprisonment 1/day, detect good at will, freedom 1/week = :eek: Ok, let's do math... Non-slotted command word imprisonment (9171800/52) = 110,160 gp Non-slotted command word freedom (9171800/51.5) = 82,620 gp (divide by 7 or 10, depending on your definition of week) Non-slotted command word detect good (111800*1) = 1,800 gp 18,335 + 110,160 + 8,262 + 1,800 = 138,557 gp for the 10-day week 18,335 + 110,160 + 11,803 + 1,800 = 142,098 gp for the 7-day week Not quite epic or artifact level, but really not cheap. And don't go trying to get a discount for requiring paladin (or somesuch) levels to use; that's not a hindrance to the creator of it and would be a security measure, so should result in an increase in price. This is using the Multiple Similar Abilities section of the sidebar on DMG p.282, as weapons are not slotted items. This states that the highest cost ability is normal priced (at x2), the second is at 75% (or 150% overall), and any remaining are at 50% (of x2, which means 100%).
Icel 01-18-05, 05:49 AM	First of all, thank you very much. Now, there is a story behind this weapon. His abilities came before the mechanics. No specific character is able to wield it- the weapon chooses its wielder. If I want that the Imprisonment spell will be activated by a certain condition and not by a command word, how this will affect the price? Because the spell is supposed to take place when a drop of fresh blood (that of the victim) touches to blade. Some other questions: 1. What does "Non-slotted" means? 2. Why do you multiply the imprisonment price by 2, and the freedom by 1.5? oh, and I ment a 7 day week :) .
Kyaran 01-18-05, 08:05 PM	To have the imprisonment activate only on certain conditions, we wander into the realm of subjective pricing. One way to do it would be to change the pricing from Command word to Use-activated, where 'use' is touching fresh blood. This increases the price from 110,160 gp to 122,400 gp; net change +12,240 gp. Another method would be using the Craft Contingent Spell feat from Complete Arcane and adding 15,300 gp (SLCL100) to the item. This is both more expensive and requires another feat. I'd probably strike a balance and allow this item to be created using either the Craft Contingent Spell feat or the spell contingency for around 13,500 gp extra. Keep in mind: this price is the market price. Crafting the item takes less gold but requires XP. This is my 'finished' write-up. Feel free to change the description, obviously. Dark Gaoler's Blade: This +2 keen bastard sword is used by favored servants of greater devils. The bearers of these blades are tasked with disposing of servants of good, but leaving them ready for later 'questioning'. The blade allows the bearer to use the spells imprisonment once per day, freedom once per week, and detect good at will. Strong abjuration and faint divination; CL 17th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Contingent Spell or contingency, imprisonment, freedom, keen edge, detect good; Price 155,598 gp; Cost 77,799 gp + 6,224 XP. "Non-slotted" means the item imbued with the spell/effect doesn't take a slot on the character's body as defined in "Magic Items on the Body" DMG p.214. The slots are, vaguely: head, eyes, neck, torso, belt, armor, bracers, gloves/gauntlets, rings, boots, cloak. Since a weapon doesn't take one of these valuable slots, it costs more. This is in exchange for the ability to quickly switch out the item in the middle of combat. For instance, if you have a Ring of Evasion in your bag and you want to wear it (so you can be better protected against the squad of mages with wands of fireball), but you're already wearing your Ring of Elemental Command (Water) and Ring of Sustenance, you have to take an action to get the ring out, another to remove a ring, a third to put on the new ring, and a fourth to put away the displaced ring. A weapon only requires a move action to draw (and none if you have quick draw or combine it with actual movement), and a move action to put away. You also generally start by drawing the weapon you'll want to use, so changing a slotted item takes 4 actions (minimum) and a non-slotted one can take as little as a free action. The reason for multiplying the prices by 2, 1.5, and 1 are from the Multiple Similar Abilities section of the sidebar on DMG p.282, as I noted. The sidebar allows for price reduction when a single non-slotted item has more than 1 ability. Slotted items get more expensive as you add abilities, since they have resrictions on use. Non-slotted items cost more at the outset to offset the loss of those restrictions, but as you add more abilities the trade-off moves towards slotted items being more valuable and you're given a break on the price increase. As the sidebar says: "Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities." Since all non-slotted item abilities are doubled to begin with, we start with the most expensive ability at 200%. The next ability is also at 200%, but is reduced to 75% of that, which is a total of 150% of the normal price. The remaining abilities cost 50% of the doubled price, so they end up costing 100% of the normal price. Also... you said "the weapon chooses its wielder." This sounds suspiciously like you're looking at an intelligent item. Intelligent items are different and much more freaky. Check out the Intelligent Items section of the DMG on p.268. This sword as an intelligent item would cost more like 130,000. Breakdown: Base magic sword = 18,335 Top ranking item with 2 mental stats at 19, 1 mental stat at 10, speech, telepathy, 4 lesser powers, 3 greater powers, 120' darkvision, blindsense, and hearing = +15,000 Lesser powers: detect magic at will (3600), hold person 3/day (6500), daze monster 3/day (6500), locate object 3/day (6500) = +23,100 Greater powers: detect good at will (7200), Special purpose with 2 Dedicated Powers of imprisonment 1/day (50000) and freedom 1/week (20000) = +70000 (Price loosely based on 130,000 gp cost of greater shout 3/day) Ego: 2 enhancement + 1 ability + 4 lesser powers + 1 greater power + 4 special purpose + 2 secondary dedicated power + 8 ability bonuses = 22 (This allows the item to try to force obedience from its possessor with a Will save DC 22) Price: 126,435 gp This is significantly cheaper, and there's a good reason. If the sword doesn't like what it's being used for, it won't cooperate, and may even try to take over the character's mind briefly. And you're welcome. Always glad to help. :)
Icel 01-19-05, 05:51 AM	And again, thank you! You have been very helpful. What I meant about choosing the wielder is not for the weapon to be intelligent per se, but similar to "The One Ring". It is conscious to itself and the environment, but don't speak or think. It follows its goal and in order to accomplish it, the sword "bring" herself to an appropriate wielder. For final note, your story for the sword was quite good, but I thought on a diffrent one (something about the god of vengeance seeking to imprison good heros). In addition, you gave me the technical detail, which is very helpful, so thanks.