Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trakx 09-13-05, 07:33 PM	Is it possible for a Dexterity-based swordsman to do 50 damage... in one blow? If so, with what race, class, feat, weapon combos? See my signature below to see what I've got so far. I don't think I'm off to a bad start. ...assuming its possible at all.
Satori 09-13-05, 08:21 PM	The only way I've found for a Dex based melee character to do damage on par with a str hero is through one of two routes. 1. Allow the use of "Perfect Strike", a feat from "Plot and Poison" that lets a combatant use their dex bonus on damage. 2. Generously multi-class with a core or PrC that allows BIG sneak attacks. As it stands, a melee hero goes dex in order to beef up their AC, Dex based skills, and ranged attack power. However, the "Finesse Warrior" is a very, VERY popular archetype with most players even though it has the potential to lag behind the "Brute Warrior". In order to compete, most "Finesse Warriors" need to invest heavily in very specific feats or in multi classing. ---My hardest hitting "Dex Melee" hero was a Lawful Evil Monk/Blackguard/Assassin dual-wielding Kukri (specialized religion, feats, and DM allowed Kukri as a Monk weapon). He eventually became so overpowered I had to retire him at lvl 16 (I think the level spread was Monk 6/Assassin 3/BlackGuard 7). He capped out with 8 attacks (5 with 3ED monk progression, 2 from ITWF, and 1 from Flurry), a 12-20 crit range, and 4d6 sneak attack per hit. The DM and I did a theoretical level progression till 20, and he was simply ridiculous. What I found the funniest was that he was NOT meant to be such a munchkin. I started him as a frail, rather clumsy UNDER powered L/N monk with some wonderful personality quirks and self-esteem issues. Of course, the DM exploited that and made various RP in-game "appeals" from various dark forces (first a Rogue's Guild simply because my group needed the money and the resources ala "an offer you can't refuse"...which lead to the monk getting adopted by the Guild's top Assassin trainer...which lead his eventual capture by a "mark" who happened to be an Acoloyte of the Skin, where he was seduced into becoming a personal bodyguard...) It was really quite fascinating, as I was originally looking at PrC like the Henshin Mystic and Tattoo Monk...then ultimately became something quite different. Wow...talk about a tangent. Conclusion: -You need to have a lot of feats to compensate with a HUGE dexterity, or another class with sneak attacks. Satori
Rulebook 09-13-05, 10:39 PM	well, if he's a low-str dex fighter its tougher, but still doable. make sure you take 3 levels of swash... 18str, 18int, +1 light pick, crit. max damage 52. lol what kind of levels are you looking at here? is it 50 damage a hit at lvl 1, 5, 10, 15, 20? what? Swash3/Psywar2... would be fun. prescience, offensive to get that extra +2 damage. prc-ing, do the whole fighter/swash/champion of CL thing to get str, dex, and int to damage, then just take a high crit multiplier weapon and go hog wild. (light picks work well for me, because they're light with an x4 on em)
Tyler Do'Urden 09-14-05, 01:34 AM	There's three weapons with which you can use both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse. rapier spiked chain unarmed strike Of these, only the spiked chain is two-handed. Single class Elven fighter. Str 14, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 13. All ability points go to Dex. FEATS 1) Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) F1) Weapon Finesse F2) Weapon Focus (spiked chain) 3) Wild Talent 4) Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) 6) Psionic Weapon F6) Power Attack F8) Greater Weapon Focus (spiked chain) Put both ability points into Dex. Max out Concentration. Make sure you're always psionically focused before any combat. EQUIPMENT (19,000) gloves of dexterity +2 - 4,000 gp +1 shock spiked chain - 8,325 gp +2 mithral shirt - 5,100 gp Spiked chain, +18/+13 (2d4+6 +1d6) Charge, Full Power Attack, Psionic Weapon +12 (2d4+22 +3d6) (avg. 39.375, max 78) Four more levels should put the average well over 50. 9) Greater Psionic Weapon F10) Improved Critical (spiked chain) 12) Psionic Meditation F12) Greater Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) EQUIPMENT (88,000) manual of quickness of action +1 - 27,500 gp belt of giant strength +4 - 16,000 gp gloves of dexterity +4 - 16,000 gp +1 flaming shock spiked chain - 18,000 gp +2 mithral shirt - 5,100 gp Spiked chain +24/+19/+14 (2d4+11 +2d6) Charge, Full Power Attack, Psionic Weapon +14 (2d4+53 +6d6) (avg 86.9, max 158) Hmm... maybe I overestimated how long it would take. You won't have many Dex-based moves, but you could always ditch the whole Psionic Weapon thing and pick up Spring Attack. Doesn't look like it's making that big a difference anyhow. Could also do a Human psychic warrior. You'd have one less feat (drop Wild Talent). NOTE: Those averages are including the bonus damage from crits using a formula I devised and posted in some other thread a while ago.
bossloki 09-14-05, 07:29 PM	If you have the XPH or the SRD the feat greater psionic weapon (must have some psionic ability) adds 4d6 damage to one attack and you can spend two PPs with a deep crystal weapon and add 2d6 more damage for a total +6d6 damage. Three levels of swashbuckler for adding your Int bonus to damage with light or finessable weapons. The feat "Item familiar" from unearthed arcana lets you add some special abilities to a magic item (based on your chracter level). One of the allowable special abilities specifically mentioned is the Bash ability that is normally reserved for shields. It makes the weapon effectively two sizes larger for damage purposes only (no actual size change). Now use a chain weapon (spiked chain, kawanaga, etc..) they are finessible so the swashbucklers damage bonus applies and they are also two handed weapons so you add 1.5 times your strength bonus. Play a half giant (naturally psionic and has powerful build),or a goliath (with psionic class levels or the wild talent feat). Get a deep crystal chain weapon (I'll use the spiked chain as an example). Requires 4 feat slots (psionic weapon, greater psionic weapon, exotic weapon proficiency, and item familiar). Your spiked chain does a base damage of 2d6 (remember the powerfull build) Give it the Bash ability and that damage inproves to 4d6. Now spend you 2PPs (free action) to charge the weapon with another 2d6 damge. Use the greater psionic weapon for 4d6 more damage. Total damage (without adding magic/psionics or high ability scores) = 10d6. If you want to get really insulting you can use power attack (two handed so double the penalty to damage) since the chain isn't a light weapon.
dirkformica 09-15-05, 02:46 AM	Well, depending upon your DM's ruling on how Polymorph affects classes with Racial requirements (e.g. Champion of Corellon,) an Sun Elf (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) with the Otherworldly feat (Player's Guide to Faerun) with 9 casting progressions can cast the 5th level Draconic Polymorph (Draconomicon) for Str 21(29) Dex 31(31) Con 16(18) +15 Natural Armor, 60' fly (good,) poison, +8d6 melee sneak attack, add in Gauntlets of Dexterity +6 for Dex 37, Belt of Giant Strength +6 for Str 35, Headband of Intelligence +6 for potential Int 20+levelups+6 so about 30 at 20th level and Intuitive Strike (Swashbuckler level 3 from Complete Warrior) and Elegant Strike (Champ of Corellon 2 from Races of the Wild) wielding a Elven Courtblade (Races of the Wild) and Power Attacking for -10 to hit you get something like 1d10+18 (Str x1.5) + 20 (PA) + 13 (ES) + 10 (IS) = Minimum of 62 damage. And you can add +8d6 sneak attack damage if you can flank or cast Improved Invisibility. Without all the gear you could just go with a Sun Elven Swash 3/Wiz 4/Dragonslayer 1 (Draconomicon)/ Eldritch Knight 10 (DMG)/ Champ of Cor 2. BaB 18, Wizard Caster Level 14, Int and Dex to damage. It will cost you the following Feats: Dodge, Combat Expertise, Mounted Combat, Iron Will, and you'll probably want Power Attack. You will get 2 bonus feats from CoC and EK although your choices here are somewhat limited. Lowest level would probably be Swash 3/Wiz 4/ DS1/ EK5/ CoC 2 or ECL 15. So you should get Str 29, Dex 31, Int 23 and BaB 13. That'd be 1d10 + 13 (str x 1.5) + 26 (PA from -13 to hit) +10 (ES) + 6 (IS) = 56 base. And obviously you can cast spells like Greater Enchanted Weapon for enhancement bonuses to hit and damage, Int/Dex/Str boosting spells, and then throw in a Wraithstrike (Complete Adventurer) so all your attacks are touch attacks and you should be golden. (edit: With your Tiefling base, you wouldn't need the Otherworldly feat but you also can't take the Champion of Corellon class. But I believe there's a weapon enchantment in Arms and Equipment that lets you swap your Dex bonus to AC to your Damage. I think it's a +2 bonus called Fierce. So a Fierce Elven Courtblade +1 would get you there. You still need to get to a caster level able to cast either Polymorph or better yet Draconic Polymorph for it to really shine.)
Dęгơs 09-15-05, 02:53 AM	There's three weapons with which you can use both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse. rapier spiked chain unarmed strike Of these, only the spiked chain is two-handed. just a small nitpick: as of the races of the wild, there are 3 new ones, the elven lightblade, thinblade, and courtblade.all of them arfe exotic, and the latter two can combine power attack and weapon finesse (they can all be finessed). the courtblade is the best one for uber damage potential, as it does a d10 damage, counts as a greatsword for feats, and has a x2/18-20 crti multiplier. remeber that its exotic and two-handed, though.
Elemental_Master 09-15-05, 03:49 PM	Dang if you take the rigt feats dragons don't seem so hard (spoken from a level 2 Dwarven Fighter who only has the basic game and still believes that the black dragon is a boss monster. I have 22 AC)
Andrew 09-15-05, 04:00 PM	A Swashbuckler Champion of Corellon with a Courtblade can add Dex, Int, and Str x 1 1/2 to damage with an 18-20 crit. Dervish can throw up to an extra +5 onto that. You should be pretty well along after that.
Trakx 11-23-05, 08:01 PM	How must does it take to do "Massive Damage" to a medium size humanoid creature? I once heard 50 damage, but I've recently heard that's for large creatures. I might be wrong on both.
DuctShuiTengu 11-23-05, 09:08 PM	Getting some levels in Wildrunner can help out a lot. +2 Strength and +6 dex can be all sorts of fun once both of them are adding to your damage. Of course, with the prereqs for that class, Fighter and Swashbuckler aren't going to let you get in in a reasonable timeframe. Swap out one the Fighter levels for a level of Ranger to get the necessary skills in-class and you can - assuming you have a good enough int modifier to cover all the necessary skills - make Wildrunner after 5th level. It's full BAB, so you can still make CoCL at 8th (though you're going to need the bonus-feat from Fighter to cover the requirements for both of them before 9th).
Rulebook 11-23-05, 09:09 PM	its 50 always, no matter what the size. unless you use optional or house rules.
the.chesire.rat 11-24-05, 12:50 PM	in v3.5 my dexterity modifier is 7 and my strength modifier is 2 and my opponent is half dragon half humanoid and im a level 13 ninja elf.. Im in a state of etherealness and i use my Magically enhance bow and it is +3 Longbow Composite and i have a feat of dragon hunter and dragon bane.. so it does damage 1d8 + 3 damage on my bow enhancement + 2 on its dragon hunter feat. + 2 d6 because of dragon bane + 7 d6 because of suddenstrike + 1 d4 x2 arrow for a colored dragon (ex. Half Red Dragon and my arrow is frost arrow).. for me it is possible to reach more than a 50 damage on my favored enemy which is a dragon