Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Threefists 06-04-07, 04:56 AM	This weapon is nearly six foot long, composed of a thick haft of hardwood wrapped with leather, with a three-pronged head at one end, the edges of the outside tines honed to a fine edge, while the base is capped with a heavy steel counterweight. Originally created by a long-dead ocean-dwelling cousin of the Ogre Mage, the Dire Trident possesses many of the strengths of it's namesake, being able to be used underwater with a minimum of water resistance and thrown a modest distance, but requires two hands to use properly, and is equally effective on land. Dire Trident: Two-Handed Weapon (Exotic). Cost: 70 gold. Damage: (Sml) 1D8 (Med) 1D10. Critical: x2 Range Increment: 10 feet. Weight: 10 lb. Type: Piercing or Slashing. Special: When set against a charge, the Dire Trident deals double damage (Piercing). Worth using a feat for, or does this seem more like it belongs in the Martial Weapon Category?
Watchman 06-04-07, 06:41 AM	...doesn't the Halberd already do all that and then some...?
Threefists 06-04-07, 07:02 AM	Valid point, Watchman, but you can't throw a Halberd, which is making me feel that a 'Dire' Trident should possibly be a Martial Weapon instead of a Exotic Weapon. Trading a 10 foot throwing range for the trip ability...Hmmmm....anyone else?
Knightblde 06-04-07, 09:41 AM	Wouldn't this just make it a large Trident with 2d6 for damage dice? Monkey grip would be the feat required to use it, or use Strongarm Bracers (MIC) without a feat. No new rules, the best way to go.
Inigo Carmine 06-04-07, 10:44 AM	I think the way you have it would make a good 1H exotic (maybe even slightly on the powerful side). For 2-handed, it needs just a little bit more. I'd say 1d12 damage, as it's slightly less than 2d6 (which would balance out the 20ft range increment). Or, you could cut it back to a 10-ft range increment and make it 2d6.
bondious 06-04-07, 12:52 PM	Or maybe use the bastard sword rules: one-handed exotic (but can be used two-handed martial). Now if you really wanted the two-hand exotic, I'd go with Inigo Carmine's suggestion and make it 2d6 (or d12) damage, which would be in line with a great spear (from the 'Complete Warrior'). My only qualm is the slashing damage. Why slashing?
BW0222 06-04-07, 01:57 PM	Threefists, The Arcanis setting already has a Great Trident weapon. Off the top of my head... Two handed martial weapon, 1d10 damage, piercing, 20/x2 critical, 10' reach, can not be thrown. It also has rules for sticking in place (i.e. your opponent can't move and you can't continue using the weapon, although either side may pull the weapon out causing an additional 1d4 damage).
Prince_of_Parkness 06-04-07, 03:40 PM	Wouldn't it make sense to allow someone to disarm with a dire trident? Maybe a +2/4 bonus (can drop trident to aviod being disarmed if disarm fails? Wait forget that, I mixed it up wuth trip...) Also, personally as a DM, I wouldn't have any non-masterwork weapon to be equally effective on land and water
Inigo Carmine 06-04-07, 03:56 PM	My only qualm is the slashing damage. Why slashing? Actually, I just noticed that myself. That clashes slightly with the idea of the trident (throwable and useable underwater without a penalty). While it is possible to slash with weapons like that, it's usually not its primary function, similar to how most weapons qualified as being "longswords" can be used for stabbing (even better than a trident can be used for slashing), but the primary means of attacking with one falls under slashing.
Kouk 06-05-07, 02:57 AM	For one, change the name to Great Trident so people automatically know it is a bigger trident. For another, it shouldn't do a different kind of damage than the weapon it is based off of really. Also, there is already the Harpoon weapon in both Stormwrack and Frostburn (and AaEG I think, probably even others). Harpoon is exotic 1d10 x2 throwing weapon with 30ft range, piercing damage and it weighs the same as your dire trident. If you hit with it, you can go through a struggle of opposed checks to control the target with the line (now that you have stabbed him with a harpoon, you can pull him around and prevent his movement). It is listed as a ranged weapon so using it in melee probably takes penalties though. Also, it doesn't actually list how many hands it takes to throw it but I would assume just one (I can't picture throwing it with two hands). Since the Harpoon has your Trident beat as a ranged weapon, you probably would want to up the damage at least.
Threefists 06-05-07, 06:32 AM	Alright, it's fairly safe to say my idea has died in the ass...thank you, every one, for your postings. Informative and intelligent, and thus I feel no shame/anger/regret at the death of yet another of my babies....*sigh* @Kouk: The Harpoon is actually useable in melee without penalties. If you'll flick to page 143 of Stormwrack, lo and behold, there is a Darfellan lvl 1 Warrior using the Harpoon in melee without penalties, despite the Harpoon supposedly being a ranged-only weapon. Once again, thank you all for your input....*Cremates the Dire Trident*
belly120 06-05-07, 06:47 AM	what about the ability to pin someone with the 3 prongs.
bigsnarf 06-06-07, 08:22 PM	It would be a exotic weapon because its so rare.Also a thrown weapon that does 1d10+strength bonus is a real beast of a martial weapon.Making it a exotic weapon gives it balance.I think its great and Im going to steal it for a Dragonlance game Im working on.I can see it now,a evil minataur pirate with a chip on his shoulder that wields a weapon from some lost empire from under the sea.F that,my next character I play will have one! All fighters worth their salt should have one.I going out and buying one for my mom.Dude,the dire trident is a great idea!
AAB 06-06-07, 08:30 PM	a weapon is exotic not because of rarity, but because it takes special training to use one. -and- martial weapons that deal 1d10 (or more) damage: glaive greataxe greatclub heavy flail greatsword halberd bastard sword (two-handed) dwarven waraxe (two-handed) maul (two-handed) warmace (two-handed) while i realize that none of them can be thrown, it's not that big of an advantage, especially when you realize that weapons in that group also have reach, can be used to trip, or give bonuses to disarm.
bigsnarf 06-06-07, 08:51 PM	Oh,thats rite,special training to is a must.IM BUYING ONE FOR MY MOM!
Threefists 06-07-07, 10:57 AM	Alright, since there seems to be a continued interest in the weapon, I'll post the 'reworked' version... This weapon is nearly eight foot long, composed of a thick haft of hardwood wrapped with leather, with a three-pronged head at one end, the two outer tines slightly offset from the middle tine, while the base is capped with a heavy counterweight. Originally created by a long-dead ocean-dwelling cousin of the Ogre Mage, the Dire Trident possesses many of the strengths of it's namesake, being able to be used underwater with a minimum of water resistance and thrown a modest distance, but requires two hands to use properly, and is equally effective on land. Dire Trident: Two-Handed Weapon (Exotic). Cost: 70 gold. Damage: (Sml) 1D8 (Med) 1D10. Critical: x2 Range Increment: 10 feet (20 feet under water). Weight: 10 lb. Type: Piercing. Special: When set against a charge, the Dire Trident deals double damage (Piercing). The offset tines of the Dire Trident allow for the wielder to 'snag' a opponent's blade between them and twist the weapon out of the opponent's grasp. A Dire Trident grants a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm a enemy, including the roll to avoid being disarmed should the attempt fail.
bigsnarf 06-07-07, 03:16 PM	I liked the old version better,but the new one is cool for the 20" range underwater.I think when i steal your idea I will keep the slashing blade cause you can do chopping attacks.I wanted to ask if you had any ideas for other nasty weapons?
Threefists 06-08-07, 06:44 AM	I had some stats somewhere for a Flail with three heads, similar to Yeenough's primary weapon....gimme a while to dig it up, however, and make it 3.5 worthy (made it back during 2E, and man was it overpowered!)
belly120 06-08-07, 10:48 AM	yep i like the new dire trident nicely done
Threefists 06-08-07, 11:33 AM	Thanks belly120, it's always nice when a idea get's accepted, and for it's merits....as to the three-headed flail, still trying to 'convert' it to 3.5 and not be *cough* "OMGWTFPWNEDLEEROYJENKINS", to quote the DM I play with now. I sadly lack the Arcaniss setting books (Forgotten Realms and, recently, Eberron settings only.) Can anyone see any flaws in the Dire Trident?
Watchman 06-08-07, 11:35 AM	Well, the underwater throw distance is conceptually pretty much impossible.
bigsnarf 06-08-07, 05:42 PM	Why is it impossible?I only ask because I dont know anything about underwater combat in "real life".All I know is in that Waterworld movie,and the cartoon Snorkels from the eighties.
Watchman 06-08-07, 05:56 PM	'Cause water resistance keeps both you from executing a proper throw (the motion of the arm involved is really pretty much the same as for delivering an overhand blow with, say, and axe - and we all know that doesn't quite fly due to the drag), and the item from going much anywhere. You can throw stuff like two meters tops underwater, and it'll look like it was moving in slo-mo... in a rather steep arc towards the bottom. If you want a ranged weapon for aquatic combat, you're pretty much out of luck unless you can figure out a way to make the projectile self-propelled (eg. a torpedo) or wait until someone figures out how to make those funky underwater guns naval Spec Ops units sometimes use (they shoot a sort of long, thin dart; effective range is in the environs of ten-twenty meters tops underwater, and not too much more in air - but they still obviously outreach all other man-portable weapons (eg. knives) below the waves).
bigsnarf 06-09-07, 08:33 AM	I think that in "real life"a spear gun only goes a few meters,I remember seeing one on Shark Week on cable.The dude would wait untill Mr. Grrr. Shark was really close then"pow"he pulled the trigger.It didnt kill Mr Grrr. Shark,but it looked really wicked hurt.
bondious 06-09-07, 02:56 PM	I like the idea of a weapon that can be thrown under water. I'd give it a corkscrew or similar design, possibly with some kind of fins, so that when you throw it you'd put a spin on it. I wouldn't give it a 20' range increment, though I don't think 10' would be out of the question. Definitely would have to make it exotic, though, to master the technique of throwing it underwater. Maybe like an "aquatic javelin" or something. That'd be cool. And do bows and/or crossbows work underwater? I'd think that crossbows might, kinda like a speargun does. As for the Dire Trident, I don't think it really needs a throwing range, what with the other things it does (d10 damage, set against a charge, disarm bonus). Maybe work in the bastard sword rules for one or two-handed use, and drop the thrown range, and I'd say it looks just fine! :D