Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kimokeo 05-07-06, 05:38 PM	As a Sorceror, I'm standing there with my longspear. A mean, nasty, ugly Barbarian Orc charges me with his Orc Doubleaxe. He provokes the AoO and, having cast TrueStrike the moment before, I choose to Disarm the beast. The look on the beast is hilarious when it is now standing before me, it's weapon behind it. Here's the issues: Can the beast stop it's charge in the square where it dropped it's weapon? Can it draw a weapon between the square it was disarmed and the square in front of me? (having Combat Reflexes) The beast is in front of me and uses an unarmed attack provoking another AoO. Can I claim my longspear as an improvised weapon to strike the creature that normally a reach weapon could not be used? If I had a Shocking Grasp spell on hold, no TS, and successfully disarmed my opponent, he should be standing in front of me. If he attacks unarmed, I get my AoO with SG?
strumbleduck 05-07-06, 08:21 PM	Can the beast stop it's charge in the square where it dropped it's weapon? Sure. Can it draw a weapon between the square it was disarmed and the square in front of me? As long as it has a BAB of +1 or higher. (having Combat Reflexes) The beast is in front of me and uses an unarmed attack provoking another AoO. Can I claim my longspear as an improvised weapon to strike the creature that normally a reach weapon could not be used? I'm not sure -- I wouldn't think you could normally threaten an area with an improvised weapon, which means no AoO. If I had a Shocking Grasp spell on hold, no TS, and successfully disarmed my opponent, he should be standing in front of me. If he attacks unarmed, I get my AoO with SG? Yes, but I'm not sure how you were holding both a longspear and a charge of shocking grasp.
ClementWillowbreaker 05-07-06, 09:44 PM	You can threaten normally with an improvised weapon, but the point is that you *were not* wielding the spear that round as a choked-up club. You can't change how you are wielding a weapon when it is not your turn.
Vegepygmy 05-08-06, 02:40 AM	Can it draw a weapon between the square it was disarmed and the square in front of me?As long as it has a BAB of +1 or higher.Um, no. "If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can combine one of these actions with a regular move." (PHB, page 141, footnote 3.) Charging is a "special full-round action," not a "regular move." So one cannot draw a weapon during a charge using the "+1 BAB rule," and since the orc has already used a full-round action to Charge, it has no move action left over to draw another weapon. If it had the Quick Draw feat it could do so, but I can't think of any other way.
Raven Dark 05-08-06, 03:00 AM	Can the beast stop it's charge in the square where it dropped it's weapon? Sure. This is wrong. The barbarian MUST end up in a square in which he could have made an attack from, as per the rules of the charge. In order to get the free movement and the attack that charging gives, he needs to abide by the restrictions the rules provide for such an action. Charge Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move. Movement During a Charge You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent. You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge. If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn. Note the underlined text. The only exception is when something interrupts the charger's movement, such as a successful trip attack from an AoO.
Nyaz 05-08-06, 04:39 AM	I would, as a houserule, allow the charging character a DEX check DC 15 to stop his movement mid-way (but this is not official, obviously). The orc can hit you with his fist/knee/head for an unarmed attack, and you do not get an attack of opportunity as you do not threaten the square next to you (this is official). He cannot draw a weapon in the next five feet unless he has the QD feat.
Kimokeo 05-08-06, 07:09 AM	I agree the charging opponent needs to finish the charge, now unarmed. An improvised weapon threatens. From what I can read, is causes lethal damage. Since a polearm is not designed for the use intended (a club) it would be an improvised weapon. Has there ever been a ruling on this? I consider polearms to be 1d4 damage since a club being 1d6 is more designed to cause this damage. The polearm is designed for a particular function and I reduce the damage accordingly. Not to mention the non-proficiency penalty. Holding a charge is addressed twice in the PHB that I can find in the Index. Holding a charge is permissable. Cast another spell, you lose it. It states if you do an unarmed attack or use a natural weapon and hit, the spell discharges but if you miss it doesn't. It doesn't address using a melee weapon. I see no rule that says I can't use the polearm at the 10' reach on the move that caused the AoO and use either improvised weapon or shocking grasp as the 2nd AoO if the Orc uses a unarmed attack. The weapon isn't a conduit for the touch attack. If it was, I'd cast touch spells and use a whip @ 15'.
Vegepygmy 05-08-06, 02:43 PM	I agree the charging opponent needs to finish the charge, now unarmed.I don't. Charging is a full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack. If the charging character wishes to give up the attack and stop moving at some point during the charge, I see no reason not to retcon the action into a double move (or frankly, a single move if he has only moved up to 1x his speed at the point he decides to abort the charge).
tarkin 05-08-06, 02:53 PM	With a reach weapon, I would rule that if you interupt the charge, the charger has the right to stop moving. By definition, ready action happens before the action. Part of the penalty of this is it lets the victim change their action. We are ruling that the ready action can occure in the middle of an action, but that still should leave the victim the right to change their actions. Discussion of using it without a reach weapon: Actually, I can't see a way for the person to disarm him without houseruling somewhat. Ready action has limitations, and it does not over-ride charge rules. Yes, the person that readied an action gets to go first. But this does NOT allow him to interefere with an attack that is already in progress. I.E. You are not allowed to do the following: Munchkin Move #23: I ready an action to step 5ft to the right just before an arrow hits me. Because Ready actions happen just before the triggered event, that means I move 5ft to the right and am in a different square so the arrow automatically misses. Nah nah nah. Ready actions have limitations on what you can and can not do. One of those things is that you can not interupt an attack that is already in progress. Yes, you can act BEFORE the attack begins, but not in the middle of one. By that I mean you can ready an action to step behind Total Cover when someone shoots at you, but not after the archer has fired and before it hits. Similarly, a Charge is a single attack action that has an inbuilt requirement that you attack as soon as you get within range. It is part of the Charge action, when you get within range, you MUST attack. Because it is a requirement inbuilt into the rules, it can not be stopped by a readied action. I.E. Charge rule over-rides the Ready rule, not the other way around. People simply can not move fast enough between the time you get within range to interefere with the attack, just as an arrow attack is too quick.
ScipioX 05-08-06, 03:26 PM	Munchkin Move #23: I ready an action to step 5ft to the right just before an arrow hits me. Because Ready actions happen just before the triggered event, that means I move 5ft to the right and am in a different square so the arrow automatically misses. Nah nah nah. Actually, I see very little wrong with this idea. Assuming an initial arrow speed of 200 feet per second, a target 100 feet away would have 0.5 seconds to respond to an arrow fired at him. An average character moves 60 feet in 6 seconds, or 10 feet a second. So in 0.5 seconds, a character can move 5 feet. So I'd allow a readied move to automatically succeed at 100 feet or more from the shooter. At distances less than that, I'd require a reflex save to respond quickly enough. An arrow moves around the same speed as a paintball round, if not slower. And anybody who's played paintball knows how easy it is to dodge individual paintballs at medium to long range. (Dodging a whole swarm of paintballs is a bit harder, but an single ball is easy to avoid.)
sizbut 05-08-06, 03:59 PM	Back to the start of the thread, all very good but a charge doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Its one of the few special attacks that doesn't provoke an aoc. The penalty on a charge is -2 on your AC. So yes, you could try disarming the big bad orc, but unfortunately it wouldn't be until after the big bad double axe hits you.
Urzza 05-08-06, 05:31 PM	^Remeber, he's useing a spear. So he hits the orc before the orc can hit him^
mvincent 05-08-06, 05:31 PM	a charge doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Its one of the few special attacks that doesn't provoke an aoc.Charging by itself doesn't provoke, but your movement provokes as normal. The initial example is correct. Your's is not an uncommon mistake though.
Vaelan 05-08-06, 06:26 PM	With a reach weapon, I would rule that if you interupt the charge, the charger has the right to stop moving. The last five feet of movement is what provoked the AoO which interrupted the charge. Since if the last 5 feet of movement isn't taken the AoO doesn't happen, giving the charger the right to stop moving doesn't really make any sense as it is basically letting them take back something they already declared. By definition, ready action happens before the action. Irrelevant. This wasn't a readied action, it was an AoO.
mvincent 05-08-06, 08:25 PM	The last five feet of movement is what provoked the AoO which interrupted the charge. Since if the last 5 feet of movement isn't taken the AoO doesn't happen, giving the charger the right to stop moving doesn't really make any sense as it is basically letting them take back something they already declared.From the Rules of the Game: "Resolve an attack of opportunity before you resolve the action that triggered it, not after. Sometimes, the attack of opportunity will prevent the triggering action (such as when the attack of opportunity proves lethal to a moving character)." "Attacks of opportunity you make in response to a foe's spellcasting or use of a spell-like ability are an exception " So the AoO would occur even if the provoker doesn't actually finish moving out of the threatened square. Whether he has a choice after provoking is unclear. While I often see players allowed to discontinue movement if something interupts them, I would probably mandate that the charging player in this case still had to move the final 5' (but did not have to still attack, obviously).