Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Longarms 10-31-06, 04:38 PM	I asked this before, but how do you handle bonuses for disarming with both ends of the dire flail? It seems to me that: Primary attacks would get a +2 weapon bonus and a +4 weilded-with-two-hands bonus. So a total of +6 Offhand attacks would only get the +2 weapon bonus and would get a -4 light weapon penalty. So a total of -2
Yobgod Ababua 10-31-06, 04:47 PM	In general, a double weapon can be used in either of two ways: 1) Using one end as a two-handed weapon. 2) Using both ends as a one-handed main and light off-hand weapon. This would be case #2, so... primary hand: +2 weapon bonus - applicable TWF penalties off-hand: +2 weapon bonus -4 light weapon - applicable TWF penalties
tarkin 10-31-06, 05:09 PM	I disagree. Disarming says: . The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a disarm attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a -4 penalty It discusses the class of the weapon, not how you are using it. For example, if you take use a Long Sword and happen to be using it two handed style, the weapon is still a One handed weapon. For that reason, you do not get the +4 bonus, even though you are using two hands to wield it. Similarly, when using a Double weapon, you are using a two handed weapon. It does not matter if you are using it to make one attack or using the TWF function to use it as a combination one handed + light weapon. Size counts, not how you use it. P.S. In that way, it is very much unlike sex.
Damionte 10-31-06, 05:20 PM	Size counts, not how you use it. P.S. In that way, it is very much unlike sex. Haha :)
SolenVlos 10-31-06, 05:30 PM	hahahaha Tarkin made a joke ´=D
draconic_swine 10-31-06, 08:17 PM	Although it never occured to me before, I'm going with Tarkin on this one. The fact is you're holding the weapon in two hands. Besides, the text for double weapons states that wielding a double weapon counts as using a one-handed and a light weapon for attack penalties. It doesn't say that it counts as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon for all purposes, nor does it specifiy anything else. Double Weapons Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaffs, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
clannagh 10-31-06, 08:44 PM	cheesy and probably against the original intent of the weapon rules but from a RAW point of view most likely legal
RavenDrake 10-31-06, 11:35 PM	Actually, I disagree completely. If that was true, you wouldn't get the +4 bonus when using a Longsword in two hands(which you DO, since it's being weilded in two hands, even though it is categorically a "One handed weapon"). It has been stated several times that weapons are labeled as Light, One-handed, or Two-handed as a convience, and that thier category (as Two-handed weapons) for the purposes of benefits and feats depends on the size of the weapon, the size of the weilder, AND THE MANER OF THIER USE. The term "two handed weapon" is simply a way of saying "any weapon weilded in two hands for certain benefits, which includes weapons which can only be weilded in two hands, as well as one handed weapons which can be weilded in two hands for certain benefits, but not light weapons, the description of which specifically excludes them from being weilded in two hands for any signifignat benefit, but that we've shortened to just 'Two-handed weapons' so we don't hae to type this whole paragraph out every time." The descriptions of double weapons say they function as a ONE-HANDED weapon and a LIGHT WEAPON for all intents and purposes when used as a Double Weapon. If you counted the Dire Flail as a two-handed weapon when used as a double weapon(ie, when you strike with both heads) and grant BOTH the +4 two-handed weapon benefit, then you'd have to treat BOTH HEADS as a two-handed weapon, graning the weilder a 2:1(or better) power attack ratio on both strikes, instead of them being 1:1 and Not Applicable (being a one-handed and light weapon, respectively).
Longarms 10-31-06, 11:36 PM	Guys, here is a section from the official FAQ that seems to be on point. "Table 7–5 in the Player’s Handbook lists weapons as light, one-handed, or two-handed strictly as a matter of convenience. These size categories are always relative to the wielder’s size, as explained in some detail in the section on weapon size on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook (also see next question). When the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a “two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon. Light weapons are an exception." With the exception pointed out for "light" weapons, it seems clear that the light weapon attack from a dire flail would get a -2 modifier (+2 for being flail, -4 for being light). I am less sure about how the other side of the dire flail works. Are you using it as a one handed weapon or a two handed weapon?
jaelis 11-01-06, 12:16 AM	I think that Tarkin's point of view does best reflect the rules as written, but the FAQ interpretation works fine and makes more sense to me. I would treat a double weapon as a 1H weapon and a light weapon if you try to disarm while wielding both ends. The FAQ does need to be taken with a grain of salt though. (At the very least, the hit points of a weapon are determined by it's true size category, not how you wield it.) You also need to think about how to work it if someone tries to disarm you. I would say that it counts as a 2H weapon in that case, since they can't disarm just one end.
Azzy 11-01-06, 01:27 AM	Guys, here is a section from the official FAQ that seems to be on point. "Table 7–5 in the Player’s Handbook lists weapons as light, one-handed, or two-handed strictly as a matter of convenience. These size categories are always relative to the wielder’s size, as explained in some detail in the section on weapon size on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook (also see next question). When the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a “two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon. Light weapons are an exception." With the exception pointed out for "light" weapons, it seems clear that the light weapon attack from a dire flail would get a -2 modifier (+2 for being flail, -4 for being light). I am less sure about how the other side of the dire flail works. Are you using it as a one handed weapon or a two handed weapon? Going by the FAQ's interpretation, it would be treated as a one-handed weapon.