Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Viper3220 10-16-06, 03:42 PM	What are you guys' thoughts on this? A friend of mine pointed out a dispelled weapon is susceptible to shatter. This can make any non artifact magic weapon destroyable in 2 rounds.
RecycledDM 10-16-06, 03:47 PM	Dispel Magic can be used "to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item." It does not make the item nonmagical. Thus, Shatter will not work on the Dispelled item. A Disjoined item becomes nonmagical and susceptible to Shatter....
Dalthbar 10-16-06, 03:49 PM	And even then - that's two saves that need to be failed, which makes it far from an auto-destroy scenario.
Viper3220 10-16-06, 03:50 PM	I read the description of dispel magic, for those 1d4 rounds it acts as a nonmagical weapon.
Dalthbar 10-16-06, 03:54 PM	To give some weight to Viper's claim, per the SRD: A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. (emphasis mine) Either way, the double-save still applies. Edit: for clarity, Dispel magic doesn't give a saving throw, you make a dispel check against the item's caster level.
RecycledDM 10-16-06, 04:08 PM	I stand corrected. I did not read deeply enough into the spell description.
tarkin 10-16-06, 04:53 PM	Let's compare: Sunder: Two rolls, does damage, easily to get massive bonuses. Can you say Two handed Adamantine weapon + Improved Sunder feat? Can you say Enlarge Person potion? Can you say goodbye to weapon? Dispell + Shatter: two saves, very dificult to get any bonuses, takes two spells. Dispell + Shatter is FAR harder and more expensive than a Sunder. Yes, they have range, but it costs so much more, that it is silly. You don't use Dispell+Shatter for the same reason you don't sunder: That item you are destroying is your treasure - it just happens to be in the bad guy's hand this second.
psionichamster 10-16-06, 07:04 PM	MUCH better uses of shatter: potion vials...especially as an area of effect spell saddles/saddle-cinches. kinda hard to ride w/o a saddle...well, ok, you take a penalty...and at least a ride check to stay on the horse. holy symbols are key...no divine casting for that enemy cleric. windows/doors/doorhandles are good targets. as are locks, especially when the party rogue is unable to handle that DC 40 check... namaste' the hamster
BW0222 10-16-06, 07:24 PM	Viper3220, As opposed to... a) greasing the weapon, b) sundering the weapon, c) disarming the person, d) warp wood, e) repell wood, f) heat metal, etc. Which are all single actions. Personally, anything which takes two rounds (and requires multiple rolls/saves) isn't a great plan. Presumably after you dispell the weapon, your opponent is going to take her round to switch weapons or at least put away their weapon.
Limousine_Liberal 10-16-06, 08:18 PM	I don't view it as cheesey. Is sundering cheesey? I do think that many a player would avoid it simply because an enemy's weapon often becomes "treasure" a few rounds later. As noted, the dispel check followed by saving throw compensates for the power of the combination.
Bopple 10-16-06, 08:29 PM	Combat round is the most precious resource in D&D combat. And gold is one of the most precious resources in the whole D&D game. Wasting 2 rounds to break a weapon and losing gold is far from cheesy.
Vegepygmy 10-17-06, 01:44 AM	What are you guys' thoughts on this?Super mega-cheesy, IMO, and doesn't work when I'm DM.
Subedei 10-17-06, 02:00 AM	I don't allow shatter at all for one simple reason - I want players and NPCs to be using much cooler, more cinematic spells to break objects. It's also perhaps a bit too destructive for a 2nd level spell. Why would anyone who ever expects to maybe fight a mage at some point in the future use anything made of glass? It's just stupid. I like glass so I remove shatter, simple. I've also removed adamantine's ability to bypass hardness and reduced it's price, disintegrate now deals damage to objects instead of automatically vaporizing them etc. All in the spirit of making the game more consistant, cinematic and fun. Essentially, I view magic mortal magic as not being able to change physical reality or create impossible effects, it follows all the rules. What it does is simply allow the caster to create a physical effect from thin air.
Jhaelen 10-19-06, 04:41 PM	I like glass so I remove shatter, simple. [...] All in the spirit of making the game more consistant, cinematic and fun. And I always thought, shattering glass was VERY cinematic, go figure ;)
ThugorpGimingaldthegnom 10-19-06, 08:00 PM	Let's compare: Sunder: Two rolls, does damage, easily to get massive bonuses. Can you say Two handed Adamantine weapon + Improved Sunder feat? Can you say Enlarge Person potion? Can you say goodbye to weapon? Dispell + Shatter: two saves, very dificult to get any bonuses, takes two spells. Dispell + Shatter is FAR harder and more expensive than a Sunder. Yes, they have range, but it costs so much more, that it is silly. You don't use Dispell+Shatter for the same reason you don't sunder: That item you are destroying is your treasure - it just happens to be in the bad guy's hand this second. how is it cheaper nither shatter nor dispell caust any thing
ThugorpGimingaldthegnom 10-19-06, 08:02 PM	I don't allow shatter at all for one simple reason - I want players and NPCs to be using much cooler, more cinematic spells to break objects. It's also perhaps a bit too destructive for a 2nd level spell. Why would anyone who ever expects to maybe fight a mage at some point in the future use anything made of glass? It's just stupid. I like glass so I remove shatter, simple. I've also removed adamantine's ability to bypass hardness and reduced it's price, disintegrate now deals damage to objects instead of automatically vaporizing them etc. All in the spirit of making the game more consistant, cinematic and fun. Essentially, I view magic mortal magic as not being able to change physical reality or create impossible effects, it follows all the rules. What it does is simply allow the caster to create a physical effect from thin air. Shatter works on all objects (targeted virsion) not just glass so really thats sort of a moot point. also even the non tagetted version works on all cristalin objects/creatures not just glass.