DM new to death [Archive] - Wizards Community

DM new to death [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ChronosCrow
08-16-05, 04:38 AM I'm a realtivly new DM (only 4 or so years under the belt and the first two weren't really much). I'm usually a pretty benevolent DM and my first two players have died in the game. First one died a year ago and they lost his body. The Second one died last Friday.

Well low and behold the party buried the member, moarned her, and then split up her magic items amongst themselves. I honestly see no reason they can't do that in a world sense. But it seems kinda too nice to just let them walk away with them. I'd also like to refrain from the idea of me going out of my way to make sure those items either get lost or destroyed b/c I'm just not so hot on some kind of pushing out one thing so promanently in my storytelling.

I'm was wondering if there were any actual rules governing such circumstance or at least looking for advice that doesn't look like it screws the players. It's a tough dilemma for me.
Temrek
08-16-05, 04:42 AM At least your players moarn each others.

Mine:

"Hey you died in the fight, right?"
"Yeah"
"Give me your inventory list!"
ChronosCrow
08-16-05, 05:47 AM At least your players moarn each others.

Mine:

"Hey you died in the fight, right?"
"Yeah"
"Give me your inventory list!"

Pft! jeeze!!! That's amazing. Kinda heartless too. They didn't do an expert job of it and an NPC was the only one to tie in religon to the death. But I should give the kudos points for looking sad, making a pebble mound for her and caring just the slight bit.
Santrilla
08-16-05, 08:03 AM I'm impressed that your players put that much roleplay into it. For our group, death essentially means your inventory is copy-pasted onto the Loot Sheet immediately. I'm surprised the characters don't carry a donor card. :P

Keeping the items might be considered disrespectful; in many societies, usually a dead person's belongings are buried with them (of course, these days people write a will :P).

What about the player of that character? Have they made a new character?

You could have the character's vengeful ghost appear and demand that the items are returned to the place of burial, or else the ghost will haunt the party for the rest of their days. Or maybe the Temple demands it as a mark of respect. Consider it a sidequest, and reward XP accordingly :)
peanut35
08-16-05, 09:21 AM one way to run it is to always have the party leave somce percent of the dead players wealth with the body. Or, if they worship a particular god that might fit the profile, curse one of the items. or the previous suggestion, have them return it to a church. However, if the person does not worship a god. Let the players take the loot. It happens. Or if the player really liked the character and wants the party to res her, then have them res her and give her loot back
Kursk
08-16-05, 12:54 PM I'm a realtivly new DM (only 4 or so years under the belt and the first two weren't really much). I'm usually a pretty benevolent DM and my first two players have died in the game. First one died a year ago and they lost his body. The Second one died last Friday.

Well low and behold the party buried the member, moarned her, and then split up her magic items amongst themselves. I honestly see no reason they can't do that in a world sense. But it seems kinda too nice to just let them walk away with them. I'd also like to refrain from the idea of me going out of my way to make sure those items either get lost or destroyed b/c I'm just not so hot on some kind of pushing out one thing so promanently in my storytelling.

I'm was wondering if there were any actual rules governing such circumstance or at least looking for advice that doesn't look like it screws the players. It's a tough dilemma for me.

1st; This isn't an area for a DM to get into. Interaction between PC's isn't your area.

2nd; Players are eventually take advantage of you as your game is too cream puff.
DarknessEternal
08-16-05, 03:53 PM Why not split the departed's possessions? Real life works EXACTLY like that. When someone dies and you inherit all their stuff, you keep what you want and discard the rest. (If you can sell the crap you don't want, more power to you). That's just the way life works.
ChronosCrow
08-16-05, 04:16 PM What about the player of that character? Have they made a new character?

You could have the character's vengeful ghost appear and demand that the items are returned to the place of burial, or else the ghost will haunt the party for the rest of their days. Or maybe the Temple demands it as a mark of respect. Consider it a sidequest, and reward XP accordingly :)

Yeah, they're going to roll up a new one I think.

I like the vengeful ghost idea, however when the character died the player seemed pretty apathetic to the idea and didn't seem to mind the death. Though in concept it might make sense, the dead character is a gypsy and them gypsies can be quiet restless.
ChronosCrow
08-16-05, 04:24 PM 1st; This isn't an area for a DM to get into. Interaction between PC's isn't your area.

2nd; Players are eventually take advantage of you as your game is too cream puff.

I kinda beg to differ on your first remark (which only seems natural to me).
As DM I am required to watch the balance in the game of items that the players have. Maybe if I don't take this item away, then somewhere down the line the balance still needs to be kept. Other players may covet the idea of getting the few magic items, but didn't get anything and I won't let that kind of party dynamic screw up my game. In this such case, if I let them just keep the items, then I dumb down or remove the items that players will recieve through the rest of the dungeon that they need to go through.

Thank you, also, for calling me cream puff before even hearing anything about my experiences as a DM and how I can tend to act like differently in RPG situations with my players. So, I said I can be nice. Big deal, that's no evidence that I'm not hard driven to create a realistic atmosphere in my world that challenges my players and gives them a really hard time. Both deaths were spectacular to a fault and as long as these people RPG they'll always remember them. That, is what I'm going for and if individuals feel that's wrong I feel they're missing the idea and just fail to name calling.
ChronosCrow
08-16-05, 04:26 PM Why not split the departed's possessions? Real life works EXACTLY like that. When someone dies and you inherit all their stuff, you keep what you want and discard the rest. (If you can sell the crap you don't want, more power to you). That's just the way life works.

Yeah, and that's exactly what they did. The unfortunate thing is that not everyone was there at the time and also there weren't really very many items. The player had basically dropped alll their character creation GP into two or three items and the party has about 7 people in it. So not enough items to go around the ones to be had are pretty dang good improving those few characters kinda messing up the bell curve theory.
ChronosCrow
08-16-05, 04:28 PM one way to run it is to always have the party leave somce percent of the dead players wealth with the body. Or, if they worship a particular god that might fit the profile, curse one of the items. or the previous suggestion, have them return it to a church. However, if the person does not worship a god. Let the players take the loot. It happens. Or if the player really liked the character and wants the party to res her, then have them res her and give her loot back

It's an Eberron game, so res is pretty rare, though the PC's may actually be at the point to do that kind of thing. And if I finally come down to the desicion that the powerful sword is just too much to be had by a character than I'll probably end up cursing it till the person gets an "attonement" or sets the sword on the grave. Totally up to the PC in the end. But if the good in the character is to shine through they'll probably do it.
peanut35
08-16-05, 04:37 PM i just want to understand something: You allowed a player to purchase a 'powerful sword' and then died. The rest of the party now has access to this sword. How is this unbalanced at all? You allowed the item to enter the party in the first place. What i'm getting at is that if this was an item off an NPC or Monster, it might be different. But that isn't what happened. An actual PC owned the item originally, and used it, so how does this unbalance it? It shouldn't, as death is part of the game, and wealth of a party is also part of a game. If the item is an artifact or something it is different, but if it is something that can be purchased in a town or with some mild difficulty, then the party should retain this, as it is a 'spoil' of the party's adventure, whether purchased initially or later bought or earned or killed for. I say let them keep it, personally. But as a DM it is always your call. Not to slight you, but if you let this 'powerful' item enter the party, why would you object to it staying in the party?
ChronosCrow
08-16-05, 04:45 PM i just want to understand something: You allowed a player to purchase a 'powerful sword' and then died. The rest of the party now has access to this sword. How is this unbalanced at all? You allowed the item to enter the party in the first place. What i'm getting at is that if this was an item off an NPC or Monster, it might be different. But that isn't what happened. An actual PC owned the item originally, and used it, so how does this unbalance it? It shouldn't, as death is part of the game, and wealth of a party is also part of a game. If the item is an artifact or something it is different, but if it is something that can be purchased in a town or with some mild difficulty, then the party should retain this, as it is a 'spoil' of the party's adventure, whether purchased initially or later bought or earned or killed for. I say let them keep it, personally. But as a DM it is always your call. Not to slight you, but if you let this 'powerful' item enter the party, why would you object to it staying in the party?

Well, maybe not so much "uber powerful". I need a bit more perspective here. In Eberron strong magic items are a rare occrance. That makes getting your first +1 sword is a hard thing to do. The Part avg ECL is 8. Most of them have maybe 1 or two low magic items and then one good magic item for their level. This one player died with an 18,000 gp value sword and will now be making another NEW character. this character completely replaces the old one and will probably have the same amount value of equipment items. That means effectivly the party lost a member (value stays the same), but as soon as they gain the replace character their party value is now surplus the value of one whole person that is not alive anymore. Sure in a life sense these things happen, but my DM sense tells me I need to balance this out.

Though, so many people are trying to thwap me on the head I'm not exactly sure if what my DM sense tells me is all too correct.

Edit: the item is only what I call powerful in perspective/comprarrison to the other items the party members have. It has a +1 enhancement with flaming and shock so it's a +3 value weapon while all of the party has either +1 or +2.
HidroliX
08-16-05, 06:28 PM We play in a big group

Most of them are level 6 or 4
and there are 2 level 10 pc's.

If a level 6 or 4 pc dies he is not even the worhtwhile to revive him or anything!

But the level 10 guys(if they ever die) They have an entire ceremony prepared!
Its so funny. (Its a roleplaying campain! so level is not that big isseau!)

But its about.. the higher the level the higher your repetation is in the game!

Thousands of soldiers die in combat! mostly only the heroes or generals are burried in a special manner!

And about the items!
they wont need them anyway but if they where very personal like a amulat that gives NAB but was passed on from generation to generation in the familie I think you cant take that from the PC!

Items found during killing monsters or any other reason can be given back to the party I assume!
mvincent
08-16-05, 06:57 PM if you let this 'powerful' item enter the party, why would you object to it staying in the party?I think the point is that a new character (with new character wealth) will be entering the party, while the old character's wealth never leaves. A player could potentially inflate the parties wealth simply by repeatedly dying. This system effectively rewards players for letting their buddies die.

I don't discourage parties from scavenging the corpses of their fallen comrads only if their wealth levels are below average for their ECL. Once they are no longer struggling, they really should be giving the deceased's loot to his next of kin (or his church).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChronosCrow 08-16-05, 04:38 AM	I'm a realtivly new DM (only 4 or so years under the belt and the first two weren't really much). I'm usually a pretty benevolent DM and my first two players have died in the game. First one died a year ago and they lost his body. The Second one died last Friday. Well low and behold the party buried the member, moarned her, and then split up her magic items amongst themselves. I honestly see no reason they can't do that in a world sense. But it seems kinda too nice to just let them walk away with them. I'd also like to refrain from the idea of me going out of my way to make sure those items either get lost or destroyed b/c I'm just not so hot on some kind of pushing out one thing so promanently in my storytelling. I'm was wondering if there were any actual rules governing such circumstance or at least looking for advice that doesn't look like it screws the players. It's a tough dilemma for me.
Temrek 08-16-05, 04:42 AM	At least your players moarn each others. Mine: "Hey you died in the fight, right?" "Yeah" "Give me your inventory list!"
ChronosCrow 08-16-05, 05:47 AM	At least your players moarn each others. Mine: "Hey you died in the fight, right?" "Yeah" "Give me your inventory list!" Pft! jeeze!!! That's amazing. Kinda heartless too. They didn't do an expert job of it and an NPC was the only one to tie in religon to the death. But I should give the kudos points for looking sad, making a pebble mound for her and caring just the slight bit.
Santrilla 08-16-05, 08:03 AM	I'm impressed that your players put that much roleplay into it. For our group, death essentially means your inventory is copy-pasted onto the Loot Sheet immediately. I'm surprised the characters don't carry a donor card. :P Keeping the items might be considered disrespectful; in many societies, usually a dead person's belongings are buried with them (of course, these days people write a will :P). What about the player of that character? Have they made a new character? You could have the character's vengeful ghost appear and demand that the items are returned to the place of burial, or else the ghost will haunt the party for the rest of their days. Or maybe the Temple demands it as a mark of respect. Consider it a sidequest, and reward XP accordingly :)
peanut35 08-16-05, 09:21 AM	one way to run it is to always have the party leave somce percent of the dead players wealth with the body. Or, if they worship a particular god that might fit the profile, curse one of the items. or the previous suggestion, have them return it to a church. However, if the person does not worship a god. Let the players take the loot. It happens. Or if the player really liked the character and wants the party to res her, then have them res her and give her loot back
Kursk 08-16-05, 12:54 PM	I'm a realtivly new DM (only 4 or so years under the belt and the first two weren't really much). I'm usually a pretty benevolent DM and my first two players have died in the game. First one died a year ago and they lost his body. The Second one died last Friday. Well low and behold the party buried the member, moarned her, and then split up her magic items amongst themselves. I honestly see no reason they can't do that in a world sense. But it seems kinda too nice to just let them walk away with them. I'd also like to refrain from the idea of me going out of my way to make sure those items either get lost or destroyed b/c I'm just not so hot on some kind of pushing out one thing so promanently in my storytelling. I'm was wondering if there were any actual rules governing such circumstance or at least looking for advice that doesn't look like it screws the players. It's a tough dilemma for me. 1st; This isn't an area for a DM to get into. Interaction between PC's isn't your area. 2nd; Players are eventually take advantage of you as your game is too cream puff.
DarknessEternal 08-16-05, 03:53 PM	Why not split the departed's possessions? Real life works EXACTLY like that. When someone dies and you inherit all their stuff, you keep what you want and discard the rest. (If you can sell the crap you don't want, more power to you). That's just the way life works.
ChronosCrow 08-16-05, 04:16 PM	What about the player of that character? Have they made a new character? You could have the character's vengeful ghost appear and demand that the items are returned to the place of burial, or else the ghost will haunt the party for the rest of their days. Or maybe the Temple demands it as a mark of respect. Consider it a sidequest, and reward XP accordingly :) Yeah, they're going to roll up a new one I think. I like the vengeful ghost idea, however when the character died the player seemed pretty apathetic to the idea and didn't seem to mind the death. Though in concept it might make sense, the dead character is a gypsy and them gypsies can be quiet restless.
ChronosCrow 08-16-05, 04:24 PM	1st; This isn't an area for a DM to get into. Interaction between PC's isn't your area. 2nd; Players are eventually take advantage of you as your game is too cream puff. I kinda beg to differ on your first remark (which only seems natural to me). As DM I am required to watch the balance in the game of items that the players have. Maybe if I don't take this item away, then somewhere down the line the balance still needs to be kept. Other players may covet the idea of getting the few magic items, but didn't get anything and I won't let that kind of party dynamic screw up my game. In this such case, if I let them just keep the items, then I dumb down or remove the items that players will recieve through the rest of the dungeon that they need to go through. Thank you, also, for calling me cream puff before even hearing anything about my experiences as a DM and how I can tend to act like differently in RPG situations with my players. So, I said I can be nice. Big deal, that's no evidence that I'm not hard driven to create a realistic atmosphere in my world that challenges my players and gives them a really hard time. Both deaths were spectacular to a fault and as long as these people RPG they'll always remember them. That, is what I'm going for and if individuals feel that's wrong I feel they're missing the idea and just fail to name calling.
ChronosCrow 08-16-05, 04:26 PM	Why not split the departed's possessions? Real life works EXACTLY like that. When someone dies and you inherit all their stuff, you keep what you want and discard the rest. (If you can sell the crap you don't want, more power to you). That's just the way life works. Yeah, and that's exactly what they did. The unfortunate thing is that not everyone was there at the time and also there weren't really very many items. The player had basically dropped alll their character creation GP into two or three items and the party has about 7 people in it. So not enough items to go around the ones to be had are pretty dang good improving those few characters kinda messing up the bell curve theory.
ChronosCrow 08-16-05, 04:28 PM	one way to run it is to always have the party leave somce percent of the dead players wealth with the body. Or, if they worship a particular god that might fit the profile, curse one of the items. or the previous suggestion, have them return it to a church. However, if the person does not worship a god. Let the players take the loot. It happens. Or if the player really liked the character and wants the party to res her, then have them res her and give her loot back It's an Eberron game, so res is pretty rare, though the PC's may actually be at the point to do that kind of thing. And if I finally come down to the desicion that the powerful sword is just too much to be had by a character than I'll probably end up cursing it till the person gets an "attonement" or sets the sword on the grave. Totally up to the PC in the end. But if the good in the character is to shine through they'll probably do it.
peanut35 08-16-05, 04:37 PM	i just want to understand something: You allowed a player to purchase a 'powerful sword' and then died. The rest of the party now has access to this sword. How is this unbalanced at all? You allowed the item to enter the party in the first place. What i'm getting at is that if this was an item off an NPC or Monster, it might be different. But that isn't what happened. An actual PC owned the item originally, and used it, so how does this unbalance it? It shouldn't, as death is part of the game, and wealth of a party is also part of a game. If the item is an artifact or something it is different, but if it is something that can be purchased in a town or with some mild difficulty, then the party should retain this, as it is a 'spoil' of the party's adventure, whether purchased initially or later bought or earned or killed for. I say let them keep it, personally. But as a DM it is always your call. Not to slight you, but if you let this 'powerful' item enter the party, why would you object to it staying in the party?
ChronosCrow 08-16-05, 04:45 PM	i just want to understand something: You allowed a player to purchase a 'powerful sword' and then died. The rest of the party now has access to this sword. How is this unbalanced at all? You allowed the item to enter the party in the first place. What i'm getting at is that if this was an item off an NPC or Monster, it might be different. But that isn't what happened. An actual PC owned the item originally, and used it, so how does this unbalance it? It shouldn't, as death is part of the game, and wealth of a party is also part of a game. If the item is an artifact or something it is different, but if it is something that can be purchased in a town or with some mild difficulty, then the party should retain this, as it is a 'spoil' of the party's adventure, whether purchased initially or later bought or earned or killed for. I say let them keep it, personally. But as a DM it is always your call. Not to slight you, but if you let this 'powerful' item enter the party, why would you object to it staying in the party? Well, maybe not so much "uber powerful". I need a bit more perspective here. In Eberron strong magic items are a rare occrance. That makes getting your first +1 sword is a hard thing to do. The Part avg ECL is 8. Most of them have maybe 1 or two low magic items and then one good magic item for their level. This one player died with an 18,000 gp value sword and will now be making another NEW character. this character completely replaces the old one and will probably have the same amount value of equipment items. That means effectivly the party lost a member (value stays the same), but as soon as they gain the replace character their party value is now surplus the value of one whole person that is not alive anymore. Sure in a life sense these things happen, but my DM sense tells me I need to balance this out. Though, so many people are trying to thwap me on the head I'm not exactly sure if what my DM sense tells me is all too correct. Edit: the item is only what I call powerful in perspective/comprarrison to the other items the party members have. It has a +1 enhancement with flaming and shock so it's a +3 value weapon while all of the party has either +1 or +2.
HidroliX 08-16-05, 06:28 PM	We play in a big group Most of them are level 6 or 4 and there are 2 level 10 pc's. If a level 6 or 4 pc dies he is not even the worhtwhile to revive him or anything! But the level 10 guys(if they ever die) They have an entire ceremony prepared! Its so funny. (Its a roleplaying campain! so level is not that big isseau!) But its about.. the higher the level the higher your repetation is in the game! Thousands of soldiers die in combat! mostly only the heroes or generals are burried in a special manner! And about the items! they wont need them anyway but if they where very personal like a amulat that gives NAB but was passed on from generation to generation in the familie I think you cant take that from the PC! Items found during killing monsters or any other reason can be given back to the party I assume!
mvincent 08-16-05, 06:57 PM	if you let this 'powerful' item enter the party, why would you object to it staying in the party?I think the point is that a new character (with new character wealth) will be entering the party, while the old character's wealth never leaves. A player could potentially inflate the parties wealth simply by repeatedly dying. This system effectively rewards players for letting their buddies die. I don't discourage parties from scavenging the corpses of their fallen comrads only if their wealth levels are below average for their ECL. Once they are no longer struggling, they really should be giving the deceased's loot to his next of kin (or his church).