[DMG2] Spell Trapping Armor Ability [Archive] - Wizards Community

[DMG2] Spell Trapping Armor Ability [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dielzen
08-24-05, 10:29 PM I'm a bit confused by this special ability. According to the SRD, in the Epic section...

Magic armor and shields with a total effective bonus of +6 to +10 but that have an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and special abilities whose individual market price modifiers are +5 or less use the table for nonepic magic armor to determine price.

This would seem to imply that a Chainmail +1, Spell Resistance (15), Spell Trapping (Chainmail +1 with +8 in enhancements) would be epic.

Given that Spell Trapping is +5, this can't be added to any non-epic item, yet no special mention of such is made in the description. And, personally, I think +5 for that is crazy.
Vaelan
08-25-05, 07:22 AM All that quote says is that a non-epic weapon has an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and can only have a total effective bonus of +10.

Chainmail +1 with +8 in other enhancements is not an epic item.
jaelis
08-25-05, 07:27 AM Unless one of the special abilities has an equivalent bonus greater than +5. That would make it epic.

The OP's example is not epic.
Dielzen
08-25-05, 04:32 PM Magic armor and shields with a total effective bonus of +6 to +10 but that have an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and special abilities whose individual market price modifiers are +5 or less use the table for nonepic magic armor to determine price.

According to the exact text from the SRD, +1 armor with +8 abilities = epic. Both sides of the "and" would have to be true for you to use the nonepic table.

You may rule different, but the RAW clearly states otherwise, and I find it surprising that the DMG2 would omit such a crucial bit of information.
jaelis
08-25-05, 04:47 PM But here none of the individual price modifiers are greater than +5. If there were some +6 property "ultravorpal", then an ultravorpal sword would always be epic. But two +3 properties is no problem.
tarkin
08-25-05, 04:56 PM Yet another person that thinks d20 was written by English teachers.

NO.

It it makes you happy to think that the people that wrote it were grammitaclly challenged, go ahead.

However, in this case, you need to re-read what they wrote.

Using the words they wrote, you are wrong. The + to hit does not get added to anything except the max limit of +10.

Basically, armor is epic if:

1) It is +10 or better, including everything.

2) It is +6 or better to hit/damage

3) They have any ability that by itself costs +6 or more.

Go ahead, re-read what they wrote. Take your time and think about it.

You are allowed to have a +1 armor with a +5 enchantment

You are also allowed to have a +1 armor with a +4 enchantment and also a +5 enchantment.
Dielzen
08-25-05, 06:21 PM So, explain to me exactly how Heavy Fortification (+5) with Fortifying Defense (another +5) isn't clearly pointed out to be epic anywhere in the DMG2?
FlameLover
08-25-05, 06:29 PM What do you mean? Adding two +5 enhancments to a weapon with atleast a +1 magical enhancment makes it effectivley +11 and therefore Epic.

Gosh, Tarkin made it so bleedin' obvious...
Dielzen
08-25-05, 07:38 PM Well, duh, obviously...yet why doesn't DMG2 clearly state this instead of just lumping it in with the rest like it's just a plain-vanilla standard + enhancement?

So now, I'll repeat the question...."So, explain to me exactly how Heavy Fortification (+5) with Fortifying Defense (another +5) isn't clearly pointed out to be epic anywhere in the DMG2?"
StormCrow42
08-25-05, 08:48 PM So now, I'll repeat the question...."So, explain to me exactly how Heavy Fortification (+5) with Fortifying Defense (another +5) isn't clearly pointed out to be epic anywhere in the DMG2?"

Perhaps because the DMG limits the total enhancement of non-epic items to +10 (pages 216-217 of the DMG for armor and page 221 for weapons). No need to repeat it elsewhere.
jaelis
08-25-05, 09:46 PM Dielzen is annoyed because the Fortifying Defense property can only be added to armor that already has some type of fortification property. The additional cost for Fortifying Defense is +5 if it is added to armor with Heavy Fortification. Thus in the table where it says:
... Fortifying Defense (with heavy fortification) ... +5 bonus
this is already a +10 ability bonus and thus an epic item property. None of the other properties on the table are epic, so Dielzen probably thinks there should be a little asterisk or something noting that this is an epic item.

I agree that a note would have been nice. But it doesn't bother me that much.
Dielzen
08-25-05, 10:20 PM Aye, just because I know this item is epic doesn't mean an inexperienced DM does and gets abused by his players in some way.

just like spell trapping on SR 19 armor
Crash01234567890
08-25-05, 11:30 PM I think they probably figured that most people playing the game could add and thus realize that +5+5+1= greater than ten, but I'll admit there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't be able to add it up. The issue though isn't whether the note is needed or not but whether or not it really matters, I'm not loosing sleep at night about it so neither should anyone else.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dielzen 08-24-05, 10:29 PM	I'm a bit confused by this special ability. According to the SRD, in the Epic section... Magic armor and shields with a total effective bonus of +6 to +10 but that have an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and special abilities whose individual market price modifiers are +5 or less use the table for nonepic magic armor to determine price. This would seem to imply that a Chainmail +1, Spell Resistance (15), Spell Trapping (Chainmail +1 with +8 in enhancements) would be epic. Given that Spell Trapping is +5, this can't be added to any non-epic item, yet no special mention of such is made in the description. And, personally, I think +5 for that is crazy.
Vaelan 08-25-05, 07:22 AM	All that quote says is that a non-epic weapon has an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and can only have a total effective bonus of +10. Chainmail +1 with +8 in other enhancements is not an epic item.
jaelis 08-25-05, 07:27 AM	Unless one of the special abilities has an equivalent bonus greater than +5. That would make it epic. The OP's example is not epic.
Dielzen 08-25-05, 04:32 PM	Magic armor and shields with a total effective bonus of +6 to +10 but that have an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and special abilities whose individual market price modifiers are +5 or less use the table for nonepic magic armor to determine price. According to the exact text from the SRD, +1 armor with +8 abilities = epic. Both sides of the "and" would have to be true for you to use the nonepic table. You may rule different, but the RAW clearly states otherwise, and I find it surprising that the DMG2 would omit such a crucial bit of information.
jaelis 08-25-05, 04:47 PM	But here none of the individual price modifiers are greater than +5. If there were some +6 property "ultravorpal", then an ultravorpal sword would always be epic. But two +3 properties is no problem.
tarkin 08-25-05, 04:56 PM	Yet another person that thinks d20 was written by English teachers. NO. It it makes you happy to think that the people that wrote it were grammitaclly challenged, go ahead. However, in this case, you need to re-read what they wrote. Using the words they wrote, you are wrong. The + to hit does not get added to anything except the max limit of +10. Basically, armor is epic if: 1) It is +10 or better, including everything. 2) It is +6 or better to hit/damage 3) They have any ability that by itself costs +6 or more. Go ahead, re-read what they wrote. Take your time and think about it. You are allowed to have a +1 armor with a +5 enchantment You are also allowed to have a +1 armor with a +4 enchantment and also a +5 enchantment.
Dielzen 08-25-05, 06:21 PM	So, explain to me exactly how Heavy Fortification (+5) with Fortifying Defense (another +5) isn't clearly pointed out to be epic anywhere in the DMG2?
FlameLover 08-25-05, 06:29 PM	What do you mean? Adding two +5 enhancments to a weapon with atleast a +1 magical enhancment makes it effectivley +11 and therefore Epic. Gosh, Tarkin made it so bleedin' obvious...
Dielzen 08-25-05, 07:38 PM	Well, duh, obviously...yet why doesn't DMG2 clearly state this instead of just lumping it in with the rest like it's just a plain-vanilla standard + enhancement? So now, I'll repeat the question...."So, explain to me exactly how Heavy Fortification (+5) with Fortifying Defense (another +5) isn't clearly pointed out to be epic anywhere in the DMG2?"
StormCrow42 08-25-05, 08:48 PM	So now, I'll repeat the question...."So, explain to me exactly how Heavy Fortification (+5) with Fortifying Defense (another +5) isn't clearly pointed out to be epic anywhere in the DMG2?" Perhaps because the DMG limits the total enhancement of non-epic items to +10 (pages 216-217 of the DMG for armor and page 221 for weapons). No need to repeat it elsewhere.
jaelis 08-25-05, 09:46 PM	Dielzen is annoyed because the Fortifying Defense property can only be added to armor that already has some type of fortification property. The additional cost for Fortifying Defense is +5 if it is added to armor with Heavy Fortification. Thus in the table where it says: ... Fortifying Defense (with heavy fortification) ... +5 bonus this is already a +10 ability bonus and thus an epic item property. None of the other properties on the table are epic, so Dielzen probably thinks there should be a little asterisk or something noting that this is an epic item. I agree that a note would have been nice. But it doesn't bother me that much.
Dielzen 08-25-05, 10:20 PM	Aye, just because I know this item is epic doesn't mean an inexperienced DM does and gets abused by his players in some way. just like spell trapping on SR 19 armor
Crash01234567890 08-25-05, 11:30 PM	I think they probably figured that most people playing the game could add and thus realize that +5+5+1= greater than ten, but I'll admit there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't be able to add it up. The issue though isn't whether the note is needed or not but whether or not it really matters, I'm not loosing sleep at night about it so neither should anyone else.