Do ability bonuses from Ioun stones stack with bonuses from other ability items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do ability bonuses from Ioun stones stack with bonuses from other ability items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
scottaeb13
07-23-06, 02:57 AM I have a player who want to use both a Headband of Intelligence and a Scarlet and Blue Ioun stone. Do they stack or is one of the items redundant?
Lotus Crane
07-23-06, 03:08 AM They don't stack. However, this is because they both provide enhancement bonuses to Intelligence, not because they're both magic items. If one of them provided an enhancement bonus to Intelligence, and the other provided an insight, sacred, or unnamed bonus to Intelligence, then they would stack.
Nephlite
07-23-06, 03:17 PM They don't stack. However, this is because they both provide enhancement bonuses to Intelligence, not because they're both magic items. If one of them provided an enhancement bonus to Intelligence, and the other provided an insight, sacred, or unnamed bonus to Intelligence, then they would stack.
I'd think that other bonuses like Insight, etc should cost double.

But than The Ioun stone is normally priced for slot less. So Insight Ioun to AC isn't more expensive...should insight ioun to stat be?
risner
07-24-06, 04:45 PM But than The Ioun stone is normally priced for slot less. So Insight Ioun to AC isn't more expensive...should insight ioun to stat be?

I'm confused.
5,000 gp for for slotless is more than other AC methods.
2,500 gp / Insight AC; 2,000 gp / Deflection; 1,000 gp / Armour

How isn't 2,500 > 2,000 or 1,000?

As for Insight to Abilities, I don't think I have ever seen that before. It sounds a bit easy to exploit if so.
Lotus Crane
07-24-06, 05:22 PM I'd think that other bonuses like Insight, etc should cost double. But than The Ioun stone is normally priced for slot less. So Insight Ioun to AC isn't more expensive...should insight ioun to stat be?
Actually, dusty rose ioun stones are already priced both for granting an insight bonus to AC (an "other" bonus to AC costs bonus^2 x 2500 gp, while an armor bonus only costs x 1000 gp, and deflection and natural armor bonuses cost x 2000 gp), and for being unslotted. 1^2 x 2500 x 2 = 5,000 gp, which is the price of a dusty rose ioun stone, and not coincidentally, what the formula tells us what an unslotted insight bonus to AC should cost.

There's no explicit example in the magic item guidelines for an insight bonus to ability score, so we'll go with making any non-enhancement bonus to ability scores costing twice as much. So a slotted item that provides a +2 insight (or sacred, or luck) bonus to an ability score would cost 8,000 gp, while an ioun stone (or any other unslotted item) that provides a +2 insight (etc.) bonus to an ability score would cost 16,000 gp, which is twice as much as an enhancement bonus ioun stone would.

Of course, because insight bonus to ability score items aren't RAW, and because the magic item guidelines in the DMG are guidelines subject to the DM's whim, not hard and fast rules he can't refuse the players using, a DM doesn't have to allow such items into his game.

In my response to the OP, I wasn't trying to say that such items exist, or should be allowed to exist; I was just trying to answer the OP's question as accurately and in as much detail as possible. I remember reading another recent thread where the OP believed that bracers of armor and a ring of protection couldn't stack because they were both magic items providing bonuses to AC, so I wanted to make sure that this OP knew that items only don't stack when they provide the same type of bonus, not because they're both magic items.

I'm confused. 5,000 gp for for slotless is more than other AC methods. 2,500 gp / Insight AC; 2,000 gp / Deflection; 1,000 gp / Armour
How isn't 2,500 > 2,000 or 1,000?
Turning a slotted item into an unslotted item doubles its price, after taking everything else into account. Dusty rose ioun stones provide a +1 insight bonus to AC, which is worth 2,500 gp by itself, but because they're unslotted items, they double the cost to 5,000 gp.

Bracers of armor +3 cost 9,000 gp, while a ring of protection +2 costs 8,000 gp. But an unslotted item (ioun stone or otherwise, like magic pants or earrings) that provides a +3 armor bonus to AC would cost 18,000 gp (twice as much as the bracers), and an unslotted item that provides a +2 deflection bonus to AC would cost 16,000 gp (twice as much as the ring).

As for Insight to Abilities, I don't think I have ever seen that before. It sounds a bit easy to exploit if so.
It probably doesn't exist in the RAW; I was just using various types (sacred, luck, etc.) as part of my example to the OP. Personally though, I don't think it's all that exploitable, because cost inefficiency starts to outweigh the benefits. For example, if I had a budget of 108,000 gp for magic items, I would much rather buy a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength (36,000 gp), a +6 enhancement bonus to Dexterity (36,000 gp), and a +6 enhancement bonus to Constitution (36,000 gp), than buy a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength (36,000 gp), and a +6 insight/luck/sacred bonus to Strength (72,000 gp).

I'm not sure about other powergaming styles, but in my own experiences min-maxing character builds, I would take +6 Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution over +12 Strength any day of the week.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
scottaeb13 07-23-06, 02:57 AM	I have a player who want to use both a Headband of Intelligence and a Scarlet and Blue Ioun stone. Do they stack or is one of the items redundant?
Lotus Crane 07-23-06, 03:08 AM	They don't stack. However, this is because they both provide enhancement bonuses to Intelligence, not because they're both magic items. If one of them provided an enhancement bonus to Intelligence, and the other provided an insight, sacred, or unnamed bonus to Intelligence, then they would stack.
Nephlite 07-23-06, 03:17 PM	They don't stack. However, this is because they both provide enhancement bonuses to Intelligence, not because they're both magic items. If one of them provided an enhancement bonus to Intelligence, and the other provided an insight, sacred, or unnamed bonus to Intelligence, then they would stack. I'd think that other bonuses like Insight, etc should cost double. But than The Ioun stone is normally priced for slot less. So Insight Ioun to AC isn't more expensive...should insight ioun to stat be?
risner 07-24-06, 04:45 PM	But than The Ioun stone is normally priced for slot less. So Insight Ioun to AC isn't more expensive...should insight ioun to stat be? I'm confused. 5,000 gp for for slotless is more than other AC methods. 2,500 gp / Insight AC; 2,000 gp / Deflection; 1,000 gp / Armour How isn't 2,500 > 2,000 or 1,000? As for Insight to Abilities, I don't think I have ever seen that before. It sounds a bit easy to exploit if so.
Lotus Crane 07-24-06, 05:22 PM	I'd think that other bonuses like Insight, etc should cost double. But than The Ioun stone is normally priced for slot less. So Insight Ioun to AC isn't more expensive...should insight ioun to stat be? Actually, dusty rose ioun stones are already priced both for granting an insight bonus to AC (an "other" bonus to AC costs bonus^2 x 2500 gp, while an armor bonus only costs x 1000 gp, and deflection and natural armor bonuses cost x 2000 gp), and for being unslotted. 1^2 x 2500 x 2 = 5,000 gp, which is the price of a dusty rose ioun stone, and not coincidentally, what the formula tells us what an unslotted insight bonus to AC should cost. There's no explicit example in the magic item guidelines for an insight bonus to ability score, so we'll go with making any non-enhancement bonus to ability scores costing twice as much. So a slotted item that provides a +2 insight (or sacred, or luck) bonus to an ability score would cost 8,000 gp, while an ioun stone (or any other unslotted item) that provides a +2 insight (etc.) bonus to an ability score would cost 16,000 gp, which is twice as much as an enhancement bonus ioun stone would. Of course, because insight bonus to ability score items aren't RAW, and because the magic item guidelines in the DMG are guidelines subject to the DM's whim, not hard and fast rules he can't refuse the players using, a DM doesn't have to allow such items into his game. In my response to the OP, I wasn't trying to say that such items exist, or should be allowed to exist; I was just trying to answer the OP's question as accurately and in as much detail as possible. I remember reading another recent thread where the OP believed that bracers of armor and a ring of protection couldn't stack because they were both magic items providing bonuses to AC, so I wanted to make sure that this OP knew that items only don't stack when they provide the same type of bonus, not because they're both magic items. I'm confused. 5,000 gp for for slotless is more than other AC methods. 2,500 gp / Insight AC; 2,000 gp / Deflection; 1,000 gp / Armour How isn't 2,500 > 2,000 or 1,000? Turning a slotted item into an unslotted item doubles its price, after taking everything else into account. Dusty rose ioun stones provide a +1 insight bonus to AC, which is worth 2,500 gp by itself, but because they're unslotted items, they double the cost to 5,000 gp. Bracers of armor +3 cost 9,000 gp, while a ring of protection +2 costs 8,000 gp. But an unslotted item (ioun stone or otherwise, like magic pants or earrings) that provides a +3 armor bonus to AC would cost 18,000 gp (twice as much as the bracers), and an unslotted item that provides a +2 deflection bonus to AC would cost 16,000 gp (twice as much as the ring). As for Insight to Abilities, I don't think I have ever seen that before. It sounds a bit easy to exploit if so. It probably doesn't exist in the RAW; I was just using various types (sacred, luck, etc.) as part of my example to the OP. Personally though, I don't think it's all that exploitable, because cost inefficiency starts to outweigh the benefits. For example, if I had a budget of 108,000 gp for magic items, I would much rather buy a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength (36,000 gp), a +6 enhancement bonus to Dexterity (36,000 gp), and a +6 enhancement bonus to Constitution (36,000 gp), than buy a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength (36,000 gp), and a +6 insight/luck/sacred bonus to Strength (72,000 gp). I'm not sure about other powergaming styles, but in my own experiences min-maxing character builds, I would take +6 Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution over +12 Strength any day of the week.