Do allies block line of sight or just grant cover? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do allies block line of sight or just grant cover? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SOKAR
12-06-05, 04:45 PM Here's a situation:

X-5-ft Square
E-enemy
A-Ally
C-Archer

E
A
X
X
C

Does C have line of sight to E?

XXEXX
XXAXX
XXXXX
XXCXX

And here?

Could you point me to a rules source that has the answer?
savant_warlord13
12-06-05, 04:53 PM yes, it has line of sight, but there is concealment
SOKAR
12-06-05, 05:02 PM Is it concealment (20% miss chance) or cover (+4ac) and where is this ruling found?
Borris
12-06-05, 05:08 PM It's cover, not concealment, so the enemy will gain a +4 bonus to his AC.
And unless the archer has the Precise Shot feat, he'll take a -4 penalty to his ranged attack roll because the enemy is engaged in melee with an opponent.
Walls block line of sight. Creatures normally don't.

Rules:
Cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover)
Concealment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment)
SOKAR
12-06-05, 05:47 PM It's cover, not concealment, so the enemy will gain a +4 bonus to his AC.
And unless the archer has the Precise Shot feat, he'll take a -4 penalty to his ranged attack roll because the enemy is engaged in melee with an opponent.
Walls block line of sight. Creatures normally don't.

Rules:
Cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover)
Concealment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment)

To understand that, you have to know what a line of effect is.

Fortunatley, i know where the rules for that are.

Thanks for the help.
Nom
12-06-05, 06:07 PM By PH pg 176, you only need a 1 square ft. opening to not block line of effect. Except in the case of some oozes, a medium creatures (say 2-3 ft. diameter) will not occupy the entirity of a 5 ft. x 5 ft. square, and thus not block LoE. I'd use similar rules for LoS, especially since the nowhere do the rules suggest that a creature can block LoS (and see PH pg 150 for explicit examples of seeing past creatures) and they effectively state that creatures cannot block LoE (LoE and LoS are often linked).
ShinAkuma2
12-06-05, 07:01 PM It's cover, not concealment, so the enemy will gain a +4 bonus to his AC.
And unless the archer has the Precise Shot feat, he'll take a -4 penalty to his ranged attack roll because the enemy is engaged in melee with an opponent.

I'd just like to reiterate this to make it clear:

In the above example, the attacker has a -4 to hit, and the defender has a +4 to AC. This is not good for the attacker.
Plothos
12-06-05, 11:02 PM In our game, we've settled on a house rule to the effect that three or more creatures directly in the line of fire can prevent LOS. I don't think there's anything in the RAW to back us up here, except a blurb about how the DM can make rulings as he likes in this gray area, but it makes more sense to us.

We also bend the rules in the other direction. If you're a 6' human firing a crossbow and the character in front of you is an ally, and a 3' halfling, that's more like the shooting-over-a-low-wall situation detailed in the PHB, so we say no cover there either.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SOKAR 12-06-05, 04:45 PM	Here's a situation: X-5-ft Square E-enemy A-Ally C-Archer E A X X C Does C have line of sight to E? XXEXX XXAXX XXXXX XXCXX And here? Could you point me to a rules source that has the answer?
savant_warlord13 12-06-05, 04:53 PM	yes, it has line of sight, but there is concealment
SOKAR 12-06-05, 05:02 PM	Is it concealment (20% miss chance) or cover (+4ac) and where is this ruling found?
Borris 12-06-05, 05:08 PM	It's cover, not concealment, so the enemy will gain a +4 bonus to his AC. And unless the archer has the Precise Shot feat, he'll take a -4 penalty to his ranged attack roll because the enemy is engaged in melee with an opponent. Walls block line of sight. Creatures normally don't. Rules: Cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover) Concealment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment)
SOKAR 12-06-05, 05:47 PM	It's cover, not concealment, so the enemy will gain a +4 bonus to his AC. And unless the archer has the Precise Shot feat, he'll take a -4 penalty to his ranged attack roll because the enemy is engaged in melee with an opponent. Walls block line of sight. Creatures normally don't. Rules: Cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover) Concealment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment) To understand that, you have to know what a line of effect is. Fortunatley, i know where the rules for that are. Thanks for the help.
Nom 12-06-05, 06:07 PM	By PH pg 176, you only need a 1 square ft. opening to not block line of effect. Except in the case of some oozes, a medium creatures (say 2-3 ft. diameter) will not occupy the entirity of a 5 ft. x 5 ft. square, and thus not block LoE. I'd use similar rules for LoS, especially since the nowhere do the rules suggest that a creature can block LoS (and see PH pg 150 for explicit examples of seeing past creatures) and they effectively state that creatures cannot block LoE (LoE and LoS are often linked).
ShinAkuma2 12-06-05, 07:01 PM	It's cover, not concealment, so the enemy will gain a +4 bonus to his AC. And unless the archer has the Precise Shot feat, he'll take a -4 penalty to his ranged attack roll because the enemy is engaged in melee with an opponent. I'd just like to reiterate this to make it clear: In the above example, the attacker has a -4 to hit, and the defender has a +4 to AC. This is not good for the attacker.
Plothos 12-06-05, 11:02 PM	In our game, we've settled on a house rule to the effect that three or more creatures directly in the line of fire can prevent LOS. I don't think there's anything in the RAW to back us up here, except a blurb about how the DM can make rulings as he likes in this gray area, but it makes more sense to us. We also bend the rules in the other direction. If you're a 6' human firing a crossbow and the character in front of you is an ally, and a 3' halfling, that's more like the shooting-over-a-low-wall situation detailed in the PHB, so we say no cover there either.