Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sol_Odlanier 10-22-07, 04:26 PM	-IF an N/PC Becomes a vampire can it come back to life in a other body? (using Miracle or Wish or whatever spell)
Lord Karsus 10-22-07, 05:56 PM	-We're talking about a normal old vampire, right? Presuming that we are, normally they wouldn't be able to. But, if someone uses a Wish spell, or a Miracle spell, as a DM, I'd allow it. Remember, these spells are extremely powerful, and literally alter reality!
MerrikCale 10-22-07, 11:11 PM	I would have to agree with LK. Seems logical to me that if the vamp could cast a wish in this life to change bodies, I don't see why he/she couldn't in unlife
Sol_Odlanier 10-23-07, 08:43 AM	How bout this? Let's say in a regular party Mr. Fighter gets killed and becomes a vampire blah blah blah..... Should I as the DM let Mr. Vampire Fighter "live" while Mr. Fighter's soul comes back to a new body?:confused: :twitch: Can Thy Both Exist at the same time?
Lord Karsus 10-23-07, 12:25 PM	How bout this? Let's say in a regular party Mr. Fighter gets killed and becomes a vampire blah blah blah..... Should I as the DM let Mr. Vampire Fighter "live" while Mr. Fighter's soul comes back to a new body?:confused: :twitch: Can Thy Both Exist at the same time? -Barring magic, no, I don't believe they can exist at the same time. However, those two extremely powerful spells mentioned before can allow that, I would say. There is also a lower level (3rd? 4th?) Cleric spell called Reincarnation. It basically allows a dead person to come back to life in a new body. If this were case on Mr. Fighter, then I'd allow his body to be a vampire, while his soul was in another body somewhere else.
selunatic2397 10-23-07, 01:10 PM	That sounds logical to me Lord Karsus, besides it gives the DM the chance to kick the players hoop with his own character...:D As a DM I could never turn down that opportunity. :evillaugh
Lord Karsus 10-23-07, 01:13 PM	That sounds logical to me Lord Karsus, besides it gives the DM the chance to kick the players hoop with his own character...:D As a DM I could never turn down that opportunity. :evillaugh -Exactly. It's an amazing plothook, and definitley makes that song "Anything you can do, I can do better" something that should send chills down a player's spine.
Sol_Odlanier 10-23-07, 02:51 PM	That sounds logical to me Lord Karsus, besides it gives the DM the chance to kick the players hoop with his own character...:D As a DM I could never turn down that opportunity. :evillaugh Thats's exactly why am asking one of my players got Wish back to life by this NPC that owned them a favorand they think (with good reason) that his Vampire counterpart is destroyed:evillaugh :schemes: Thanks both of you:)
selunatic2397 10-23-07, 04:04 PM	No problem Sol_Odlanier, glad to help! :)
Puritan13 10-23-07, 07:29 PM	So what happens when the character gets turned into a vampire by his old body? Does he get reincarnated again? and again... and again... and again... etc.
Another Gnome 10-23-07, 07:42 PM	Becoming a vampire is like a parasite taking over your dead body and absorbing your memories into itself (while the soul of the original person is having a party in the afterlife). You don't really need to go all the way to wish to get around that, resurrection works just fine if only you can retrieve a piece of the vampire body (a single hair will do). The spell description of resurrection says you can resurrect someone who's become an undead creature and later destroyed (however, this is an inclusive statement), while the undead creature type states that resurrection reverts an undead creature back to what it was before it became an undead. Neither of those descriptions prevents resurrecting a dead person from a piece of the original corpse without affecting the undeath-infested body. The spell clearly states the condition of the remains is no factor; a part separated from an undead body is not undead in itself, and was part of the original body at the time of death, so those criteria are also met. A case of undeath that traps the actual soul of the victim (such as the devour essence ability of the devourer) instead of merely re-animating his dead body is another matter, but in those cases the individual ability description says as much. I'm sure lots of people would disagree with me on this, but at least my theory ensures you won't run into a question of what happens if the friendly neighborhood priest is in the middle of resurrecting you from a severed finger, but some necromancer animates the remaining skeleton during the casting. Or better yet, you get resurrected, and then that same necromancer animates your old corpse. Does that mean you become an undead? What happens the next time someone tries to resurrect you? Does the spell fail because there's an undead copy of your corpse already roaming the countryside? (Remember that the rules don't make a difference between a skeleton and a vampire where the state of being an undead is concerned.)
Suin Bahhar 10-23-07, 08:55 PM	The real question with resurrection and undead is: "where does the soul reside?". Intelligent undead still have their own souls, but undead bodies. Zombies and skeletons are like animated corpses and soulless. Resurrection rebuilds the body and snaps the soul back into it, so any non intelligent undead will remain animated but intelligent undead could either resist or be soulless and destroyed.
The_Shaman 10-24-07, 04:59 AM	Interesting... That could be a nice hook: the vampire reverts to a mindless state - like a skeleton or zombie, perhaps just barely sentient - as the soul gets wrested away, and it has to be destroyed. Alternatively, the soul that is taken back is somehow "tainted" and the player has to cope with anything from urges to eat raw meat/drink blood to demihomicidal tendencies to an alternate personality. Sweet, a good player can really go to town with that one.
Sol_Odlanier 10-24-07, 09:56 AM	The real question with resurrection and undead is: "where does the soul reside?". Intelligent undead still have their own souls, but undead bodies. Zombies and skeletons are like animated corpses and soulless. Resurrection rebuilds the body and snaps the soul back into it, so any non intelligent undead will remain animated but intelligent undead could either resist or be soulless and destroyed. :teach: If I'm not mistaken (I'm at work and can't get my books) in Libris Mortis say that "Undead are animated by negative energy" the negative energy "revitalize" the brain and everything else, other than that it just a dead body. the soul is with its god/goddess IMO.:hides:
Sol_Odlanier 10-24-07, 10:10 AM	Interesting... That could be a nice hook: the vampire reverts to a mindless state - like a skeleton or zombie, perhaps just barely sentient - as the soul gets wrested away, and it has to be destroyed. Alternatively, the soul that is taken back is somehow "tainted" and the player has to cope with anything from urges to eat raw meat/drink blood to demihomicidal tendencies to an alternate personality. Sweet, a good player can really go to town with that one. :whatsthis Hmm. I don't see why would be mindless, if is just negative enegy animating the body the vampire should still remain his mind. Mind and soul aren't the same thing and IMO that would be a cool plot in itself (your un-dead version is after your a$$ because "It can only be one." or better yet to make :OMG! ANOTHER one just like him!!!). that would work REALLY good with a Paladin (and having the Vampire counterpart becoming a blackguard). I'm inspired today.:D :ton:
Lord Karsus 10-24-07, 10:54 AM	-Another alternative could be that the soul travels to a Stasis Clone body, while the original is animated as a vampire. This could further thicken the plotline, as the character will now be wondering why he/she had a Stasis Clone in the first place, and who created it! :plotting:
Sol_Odlanier 10-24-07, 11:10 AM	-Another alternative could be that the soul travels to a Stasis Clone body, while the original is animated as a vampire. This could further thicken the plotline, as the character will now be wondering why he/she had a Stasis Clone in the first place, and who created it! :plotting: :clap: :bow: -With a No.#7 tattooed on the back of his neck to give the ipretion there's more than one clone:pile:
18DELTA 10-24-07, 01:29 PM	-Another alternative could be that the soul travels to a Stasis Clone body, while the original is animated as a vampire. This could further thicken the plotline, as the character will now be wondering why he/she had a Stasis Clone in the first place, and who created it! :plotting: That sounds alot like the Manshoon clone bit. Isnt one of his clones the leader of the Night Masks in Westgate?;)
Sol_Odlanier 10-24-07, 01:49 PM	That sounds alot like the Manshoon clone bit. Isnt one of his clones the leader of the Night Masks in Westgate?;) I think so... :confused:but I'm not really sure, I'm virtually a newcomer in FR and keeping up with all of it is mindbending to the very least:rolleyes: -But I'm not TOTALLY ripping the whole thing of, they are two different type of creatures, aligments, abilities scores (possibly even classes If you do the Paladin/Blackguard thing) and all that good stuff...
18DELTA 10-24-07, 01:57 PM	Sometimes you have to beg, borrow, and or steal to accomplish your mission. Anything to screw with your players emotions is acceptable in my book. Hell I will eventually steal this idea, for my game!:D