Post/Author/DateTime	Post
staalmannen 08-13-07, 03:32 PM	Hi all! I have tried to look around a bit for suitable classes to make a wizard specialized in the forces of life - in particular making odd hybrids, mutants etc. I am a bit surprised that I have not found any prc or class variant that have this focus since this is a "classical" role for a mage villain. There are even lots of references to mage-assisted-fertilization for some of the odder hybrids found in the DnD worlds. Since I have not found any clear classes that fit this (I do not think fleshwarper or Alienist really covers the concept), i started to list things that could be cool in a wizard PRC devoted to life magic - "biomancer" or "abberationist"...I have not decided on the name yet... Some ideas: 1) BAB and saves like wizard, the PRC opens up for druid-specific spells as arcane spells, but BARS all necromancy spells and spells related to extra-planar creatures (except those that can be cast by druids). 2) An arcane "abberrat wild shape" version of druid "wild shape" (different body parts change independently to different things - generating a on the whole odd-looking creatures) 3) All "summon monster" or "summon natures ally" is changed to summoning of abberrations/mutated/chimeric versions of normal animals 4) Familiar turns into a "Familiar companion" which consists of parts from at least two kinds of (plants or) animals (distantly related - like a "birdsquid" or something like that) 5) Gains some degree of animal control (wild empathy) and other druid-related feats. ... well... this might be the wrong forum for posting a whole class concept, but I was more interested in if there are any classes that come somewhere close to what I am thinking about.
421 08-13-07, 05:03 PM	Forget the PrC, just create a mage or a necromancer with some specialized and very rare spells. Check the spells; Evolve and Lifeblend in Pages from the Mages
staalmannen 08-14-07, 06:20 AM	Thanks! I had not seen those spells... Too bad that they are such high-level stuff though... I suppose one could use fleshwarper early on just to add the whole abberation flavour to familiar and character while waiting for those yummy 9th level spells...
Karsus the Mad 08-14-07, 07:11 AM	3.5 versions are in Serpent Kingdoms I believe. Also, the Sarrukh were masters of genetic engineering (it's pretty much a racial ability for them) of scaled ones.
Suin Bahhar 08-14-07, 08:27 AM	Inspired by Simic guild from Ravnica are we? Some ideas: 1) BAB and saves like wizard, the PRC opens up for druid-specific spells as arcane spells, but BARS all necromancy spells and spells related to extra-planar creatures (except those that can be cast by druids). Good but I would prefer to create a bunch of new spells geared toward shapemelding, with lower level spells emulating specific parts of the evolve and lifeblend spells. 2) An arcane "abberrat wild shape" version of druid "wild shape" (different body parts change independently to different things - generating a on the whole odd-looking creatures) Meh. Sells like alter self would work fine here. Make the abberation options a 3rd level spell. 3) All "summon monster" or "summon natures ally" is changed to summoning of abberrations/mutated/chimeric versions of normal animals Flavor. no need to make templates. 4) Familiar turns into a "Familiar companion" which consists of parts from at least two kinds of (plants or) animals (distantly related - like a "birdsquid" or something like that) Good idea. 5) Gains some degree of animal control (wild empathy) and other druid-related feats. Agreed. But only on his own abberationlike animalfollowers.
staalmannen 08-14-07, 11:54 AM	Great feedback Suin I do not know the simics from Ravcna... Will check it out ;) The idea with new spells focused on shapemelding etc. are great. I was just lazy and suggested life-oriented spells from druid list, but ofcourse it would be cooler with a bit more "twisted" life forms from the "genetic engineer" wizard (although I think they can definitely share large parts of the druid ethos (opposing constructs and undead etc) eventhough they want to master life rather than serve it). You are right about the "wild shape" thing as well ofcourse. It could just as well be made by spells (but I was sort of looking into the whole "natural spell" thingy too...could have been neat).
dragonheart 08-14-07, 12:04 PM	Check out the grafting abilities (feats) for Yaun ti and illithids - I would modify them somewhat for the PRC your thinking of as lower level abilities.
staalmannen 08-14-07, 03:14 PM	I googled a bit for the Simics and yeah...it was something like that I thought about for this "arcane druid"/biomancer/abberationist type of class when it comes to their ethics - Altering Life to stand a better chance to survive (sort of helping out in the "survival of the fittest" game) You all have some great suggestions. Apparently there are lots of neat stuff out there already that can be combined to make sort of the thing I am looking for.
Suin Bahhar 08-14-07, 04:08 PM	Personally I loved the flavor for the Ravnica setting, a Magic world covered entirely by an ancient cosmopolitan city. There was a project somewhere to convert it to D&D. Really good ideas over there... Simic In their horrible labs, twisted creatures lay sprawled out on labs, while twisted creatures breath life into them. The Simic are a clan of creators, pushing new life into the city. The Simic were originally responsible for the preservation of the native life. Having thusly failed, they have taken to making life capable of thriving in the city. Alignment: Neutral. Complete scientific displacement. Their colors are Blue and Green. Their symbol is a willow with a tidal wave for branches. Leader: An elvish biomancer named Momir Vig, inventor of cytoplastic technology. Vig is the soul of the Simic, and most of the researchers follow his example. Lands: Simic lands are unpleasant to travel through. They tend to be dank, cramped laboratories and study chambers filled with wretched monsters and creeping mold. Novijen is the largest lab, Vig’s personal testing site. Classes: The Simic favor the research-minded and tend to focus on intellectual rather than physical pursuits. They favor Calculators, Flesh Magi, Paragons, Psychic Warriors, Tattoo Magi, and Enchanters. Races: Nearly any race might end up as a Simic war monster. However, the wizards themselves tend towards Verrik, Bothan, Illumian, Mongrelfolk, and Phaerlock. Religion: Most Simic are too engaged in their studies to bother. An odd handful pray to Baccob or Obad-Hai. Quote: “Look beyond, to the vascular awareness that all life is a map to greater knowledge” Roleplaying Tips: The Simic researchers are bit known for being outspoken or boisterous. However, underlying their quiet veneers are hearts of hidden passion. The Simic really do believe that what they do is worthwhile. It grows on them like a sickness, consuming all their time and attention. Be dedicated, reserved, and above all sober. -- Simic researchers gain Knowledge: Nature and Knowledge: Dungeoneering as class skills. These aid them in constructing their monsters and abominations. 1.) Research is the first and last word of the Simic. They gain Knowledgeable as a bonus feat. 2.) Simic magi have affinity with the creation of beasts. The mage gains as a bonus feat Improved Familiar or Improved Animal Companion. If they do not meet the prerequisites of these feats, they gain Summon Familiar as a bonus feat without needing the prerequisites. 1.) The experimenter must be experimented upon. One of the researcher’s seven levels must be Paragon. 2.) Further autoexperimetnia is needed. Two of the researcher’s twelve levels must be Paragon. Here is the thread http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=640470&highlight=ravnica The cytoplasm stuff is a bit out there for the realms. I dont think the realms has the knowledge of germs and bacteria yet, so minuscule nanolike lifeforms as enhancers is a bit too advanced. A nice spell for you I created: TraitCopy transmutation 4th level spell Range: touch Target: 2 target living creatures Duration: 1 minute per level Action: standard Save: Fort This biomancy spell lets the caster give a target creature the physical movement mode, ability score adjustment, racial feat, racial extraordinairy special ability or racial skill bonus of a second target creature for the duration of this spell. Only one choice can be made per casting and movement modes can override previous ones (DM interpretation). For example a target gnoll can get the wings of a target avariel to get the same fly speed as the avariel. Please critique.
staalmannen 08-15-07, 10:56 AM	A nice spell for you I created: TraitCopy transmutation 4th level spell Range: touch Target: 2 target living creatures Duration: 1 minute per level Action: standard Save: Fort This biomancy spell lets the caster give a target creature the physical movement mode, ability score adjustment, racial feat, racial extraordinairy special ability or racial skill bonus of a second target creature for the duration of this spell. Only one choice can be made per casting and movement modes can override previous ones (DM interpretation). For example a target gnoll can get the wings of a target avariel to get the same fly speed as the avariel. Please critique. Looks pretty cool! A flexible and nice spell that could be useful "on the fly" to adopt to various situations (like needing to fly, swim under water etc). That is otherwise the problem with crafter-type classes ofcourse, that they need to prepare everything even before the adventure starts.
sleyvas 08-15-07, 12:18 PM	Yeah, it is kind of weird that there isn't a prestige class with some kind of focus towards this. There could even be some feat lines towards it. I'd once proposed a class where it was a mage who was all about providing intelligence to things. Basically, they learned how to "awaken" things similar to the druid spell. I can see things like awaken undead, awaken ooze, awaken construct, awaken magic item (essentially giving an item intelligence and the ability to control its own powers), awaken living spell, etc....
Suin Bahhar 08-15-07, 03:35 PM	I was thinking of making the Traitcopy spell first level, as it requires touching 2 creatures and gives a fortitude save. Maybe this is cool for the geneticly enhanced summoned creatures you can have as a lifeblender or biomancer. Feat: Biomancers Magemark [General] Your summoned animal creatures bare your signature. Prerequisites: Knowledge Nature and Dungeoneering 8 ranks, Ability to summon animal, monstrous humanoid and abberration creatures. Benefit: Animals you summon bear your unique magemark, each summoned creature gain temporary bonus hit points equal to your HD. Summoned Animals, magical beasts, abberations and monstrous humanoid creatures gain the benefit granted by this feat. Biomancers Graft [General] Your summoned animals are enhanced with your personal grafts. Prerequisites: Biomancy Initiate, Knowledge Nature and Dungeoneering 5 ranks, Ability to summon animal, monstrous humanoid and abberration creatures. Benefit: Animals you summon bear your unique grafts, each summoned creature gain one ability granted by the grafts you know. Summoned Animals, magical beasts, abberations and monstrous humanoid creatures gain the benefit granted by this feat. Biomancy Shaper [General] Prerequisites: Knowledge Arcane and Heal 5 ranks, Benefit: Your understanding of the weave and the human bodies limits enabled you to enhance living creatures with improvements. You can create grafts. Biomancy Initiate [General] Prerequisites: Knowledge Nature 5 ranks Benefit: You can apply one graft to yourself. In addition you can now summon Abberations and Animals with any summon spell you know. (can someone help me with a list or so). These feats can replace the need for a PrC which you can only advance from from 6th level... Something for grafts: Creating grafts will be the foremost way of enhancing the power of a biomancer. You can emulate a creatures ability or traits in a special graft. Grafting an ability costs gp equal to [ 2 + ability creatures HD + creatures level adjustment] * 2000. So grafting the eyesight of an elf costs 6000 gp. Grafting an beholder eyestalk would cost 26000 gp. Sometimes special extra components are needed (as the DM sees fit) and you have to expend 1/25 part of the price in xp. The power of a graft is determined by its cost. 1-8000 gp is a least, 8001-36000 gp a lesser and 36001+ is a greater graft. A creature can have a number of grafts equal to its con modifier. Any more grafts require a fortitude save (dc 20 + number of grafts already present). Failure means death.
staalmannen 08-16-07, 04:42 AM	Suin I LOVE those ideas! And I really like the concept of making a feat chain for a normal wizard rather than a whole new PRC (too many of them already, I think). Personally I would think that these feats would also be available on the Wizard bonus feat list (i.e. a wizard can progress faster as a biomancer than any other caster) I will try to come with more constructive critique than "I love it" later... But right now I got a VERY good feeling about these ideas you got. Will copy-paste them and start thinking a bit more on them when I am not at work :cool:
Suin Bahhar 08-17-07, 07:20 PM	Something else. This area of study is quite known for its mishaps. So... Everytime a biomancer grafts someting onto a creature or tries to make a chimeric creature by combining two there can be small or big failures that occur. Roll d20. On a 6 or more nothing happens. On a 5 or less roll oncemore on the mishap table. 1-4 bonding: grafts or creatures bond wrong, like only shared legs 5-8 imperfect melding: grafts in wrong places, bodyparts centaurlike 9-12 pseudo-lycanthrophy: at times grafts or the other creature become active 13-16 dominance: subject of bonding favors one creature or graft controls action 17-18 death: graft or bonding kills subject 19 vengance: subject hates maker 20 disaster (biohazard)
The WarOverlord 08-20-07, 01:37 AM	Hi all! I have tried to look around a bit for suitable classes to make a wizard specialized in the forces of life - in particular making odd hybrids, mutants etc. I am a bit surprised that I have not found any prc or class variant that have this focus since this is a "classical" role for a mage villain. There are even lots of references to mage-assisted-fertilization for some of the odder hybrids found in the DnD worlds. Since I have not found any clear classes that fit this (I do not think fleshwarper or Alienist really covers the concept), i started to list things that could be cool in a wizard PRC devoted to life magic - "biomancer" or "abberationist"...I have not decided on the name yet... Some ideas: 1) BAB and saves like wizard, the PRC opens up for druid-specific spells as arcane spells, but BARS all necromancy spells and spells related to extra-planar creatures (except those that can be cast by druids). 2) An arcane "abberrat wild shape" version of druid "wild shape" (different body parts change independently to different things - generating a on the whole odd-looking creatures) 3) All "summon monster" or "summon natures ally" is changed to summoning of abberrations/mutated/chimeric versions of normal animals 4) Familiar turns into a "Familiar companion" which consists of parts from at least two kinds of (plants or) animals (distantly related - like a "birdsquid" or something like that) 5) Gains some degree of animal control (wild empathy) and other druid-related feats. ... well... this might be the wrong forum for posting a whole class concept, but I was more interested in if there are any classes that come somewhere close to what I am thinking about. Necromancers dabble with life and death and in fact raising the dead, healing, and harming all fall into the Necromancers turf (Though Clerics are most known for such Spells in the Realms, other Worlds have Mages that can cast Heal Spells and Cure Spells...it's a Necromancer specialty though) In the Pages of the Mages there is the Spell "Life Blend" that allows you to mix 2 or more creatures into a "New Form" as well as the Spell "Evolve" that lets you turn any Mammal, insect, fowl, or reptile/Fish form into a HUminoid creating new versions of Humaniod life from Scratch. Alchemy is the closest thing to Science in the Realms and the Necromancer learning some Alchemy can even "Shake and Bake" an Army of creatures from living Monstrosities made from body parts of different creatures to mutating globs of flesh of super human stregth from magically and alchemically altering the the DNA sequence in creatures.
staalmannen 08-21-07, 01:33 PM	About Necromancers dealing with both life and death: I agree that some necromancy spells definitely would qualify for "dealing with life" such as "cause disease" etc (and in particular the two spells you took as example). On the other hand, I think undeath and life are fundamentally different and necromancy (as indicated by the name) is primarily focused on the undeath part. A biomancer on the other hand would be proficient in healing based on arcane knowledge rather than divine devotion and generate terrible aberations - which are still very much alive in contrast to undead stuff (since in contrast to a druid, a biomancer would use the forces of life to "improve" for his own personal means rather than just "serve" life). So, essentially, a biomancer is the exact opposite of a necromancer - but still they are very much alike in ambitions and are both probably considered to bring terrible corruption to the world by for example druids. Personally I am just surprised that this has not been discussed further rule-wise since a lot of the mythology of different monsters involve "mad wizards making terrible experiments". According to the D20SRD (which is the only thing I got available presently) Healing is a sub-school of conjuration and not necromancy.... PS: I will come to more constructive criticism on the "biomancer" feat chain soon - I am just terribly busy at work at the moment :( Ds.