archlich [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

archlich [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rantingelf
06-21-07, 09:02 PM I was unsure of where to post this, eiher here or the magic & god section.

originally I heard about these as good elves who gave up their lives to protect the people as liches. I assumed they were normal liches only good aligned, but then I saw an elf with the template archlich I believe it was in Lost Empires of Faerūn. so i looked it up and naturally the whole thing bothered me, archliches are eternally youthful elven liches and are essentially invincible as their Phylacterys are bound to the elven pantheon. so anyone know anything else about them? such as how to be approved as one by their gods and are they just mindless hands for the pantheon. has there ever been an instance where they turn on the pantheon and somehow retrieve their Phylactery?

and most importantly are there any official stats for them? if so what sourcebook?

any help would be appreciated.
Mad Mage
06-21-07, 10:41 PM Archliches & Baelnorns (aka: The "good elf lich") both appear in Monsters of Faerun.
Lord Karsus
06-23-07, 08:14 PM -Archliches are not Baelnorn, mind you.
Alac Luin
06-23-07, 09:08 PM You can find some information on Baelnorns in Cormanthor: Empire of Elves. A 2ed product available for free on wizards' site under the clasic realms download page.

It really is good on lore, if not rules.
Karsus the Mad
06-23-07, 11:08 PM Unrelated question. Why are they called "arch" liches? They're no more greater than other liches:confused: Also, why "demi" lich? They're not half-liches...
rantingelf
06-24-07, 01:01 PM I don't really know but demi-liches are simply really old liches who gave up their physical body to pursue knowledge in other realms and bit by bit their bodies become nothing more then a pile of dust which they posesss from time to time so they aren't really true liches anymore.

as for arch-lich, well I'll attributable that to the elven superiority complex.
Faraer
06-24-07, 01:13 PM 'Demi' in the name 'demilich' 'refers to the state of the lich. Only a small part of the body of the lich remains' (original Monster Manual II). I'm not sure why archliches are so called -- they aren't elven -- and I'm happy not to know, as a bit of obscured etymology makes coined words more believable.
Karsus the Mad
06-24-07, 01:22 PM I know all that:) I'm just curious why they used improper wording. A simple check of what the prefix arch and demi denote would have helped. An archlich isn't greater, or higher than other liches. Demi-liches aren't half liches. They're more accurately described as archliches. That and demi-humans. Elves, dwarves, etc are anything but demi-humans. Meh, just one of my weird quirks:)
GothicDan
06-24-07, 03:55 PM Demi- originally simply meant "part," not less or under. That would be "infer" or "infra."
Karsus the Mad
06-24-07, 04:37 PM Demi- originally simply meant "part," not less or under. That would be "infer" or "infra."
I didn't say demi meant less.
Demi means half, part, so forth. It's incorrect usage to have the term "demi-human" applied to a race that has nothing to do with humans. I never saw elves, dwarves, etc, as "part human" or "half humans". The demi-lich part, I can see it. It's "part" lich in the sense that it retains it's original lich abilities, but retains only partial aspects of it's physicality. I still think it's not the choicest of prefixes.
Arch (in such usage as archmagi, archangel, archbishop, etc) denotes higher posistion/standing (ie: chief). Why good liches are regarded as archliches simply doesn't make any sense to me. It makes more sense to me to simply remove the alignment requirement of the lich template (they had no problem forgetting it with Ioulaum!:P), thus any lich with a good alignment is just that, a good aligned lich. Demi-liches, imo, are bettered termed as archliches, as they are a type of lich above and beyond standard liches.
Faraer
06-24-07, 05:02 PM As I mentioned, real language is often not that logical, or we'd be using simplified spelling or Esperanto. 'Demihuman' is more a game than an in-world term, referring to humanlike nonhuman races that aren't monsters -- as I'm sure you know too.

Archliches are different from other liches, both practically -- their lichnee process doesn't call for the death of sapient beings -- and culturally, among those who know what they are.
Karsus the Mad
06-24-07, 05:09 PM As I said, it's just one of my quirks:P
I am talking about out-of-game usage btw:)
Paix
06-24-07, 08:31 PM The prefix comes from greek and that one being a specific language contrary to english it did not retain the entire etymology. It has a dual meaning depending on the spelling and usage; it can be used to denote a higher staion (the usage in english) but it alsa means 'beginning' or 'first'.

Perhaps in terms of lore it can be explained that archliches came into existence first while the more infamous relatives came into existence after them. Or perhaps it can be used to denote that they live through positive energy, related to creation that came before destruction (negative energy).

Just some lore I used in my game for a player researching liches and the lore surrounding them.
Lord Karsus
06-25-07, 10:56 AM as for arch-lich, well I'll attributable that to the elven superiority complex.

-For the second time, Archliches are not exclusivley Elven.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rantingelf 06-21-07, 09:02 PM	I was unsure of where to post this, eiher here or the magic & god section. originally I heard about these as good elves who gave up their lives to protect the people as liches. I assumed they were normal liches only good aligned, but then I saw an elf with the template archlich I believe it was in Lost Empires of Faerūn. so i looked it up and naturally the whole thing bothered me, archliches are eternally youthful elven liches and are essentially invincible as their Phylacterys are bound to the elven pantheon. so anyone know anything else about them? such as how to be approved as one by their gods and are they just mindless hands for the pantheon. has there ever been an instance where they turn on the pantheon and somehow retrieve their Phylactery? and most importantly are there any official stats for them? if so what sourcebook? any help would be appreciated.
Mad Mage 06-21-07, 10:41 PM	Archliches & Baelnorns (aka: The "good elf lich") both appear in Monsters of Faerun.
Lord Karsus 06-23-07, 08:14 PM	-Archliches are not Baelnorn, mind you.
Alac Luin 06-23-07, 09:08 PM	You can find some information on Baelnorns in Cormanthor: Empire of Elves. A 2ed product available for free on wizards' site under the clasic realms download page. It really is good on lore, if not rules.
Karsus the Mad 06-23-07, 11:08 PM	Unrelated question. Why are they called "arch" liches? They're no more greater than other liches:confused: Also, why "demi" lich? They're not half-liches...
rantingelf 06-24-07, 01:01 PM	I don't really know but demi-liches are simply really old liches who gave up their physical body to pursue knowledge in other realms and bit by bit their bodies become nothing more then a pile of dust which they posesss from time to time so they aren't really true liches anymore. as for arch-lich, well I'll attributable that to the elven superiority complex.
Faraer 06-24-07, 01:13 PM	'Demi' in the name 'demilich' 'refers to the state of the lich. Only a small part of the body of the lich remains' (original Monster Manual II). I'm not sure why archliches are so called -- they aren't elven -- and I'm happy not to know, as a bit of obscured etymology makes coined words more believable.
Karsus the Mad 06-24-07, 01:22 PM	I know all that:) I'm just curious why they used improper wording. A simple check of what the prefix arch and demi denote would have helped. An archlich isn't greater, or higher than other liches. Demi-liches aren't half liches. They're more accurately described as archliches. That and demi-humans. Elves, dwarves, etc are anything but demi-humans. Meh, just one of my weird quirks:)
GothicDan 06-24-07, 03:55 PM	Demi- originally simply meant "part," not less or under. That would be "infer" or "infra."
Karsus the Mad 06-24-07, 04:37 PM	Demi- originally simply meant "part," not less or under. That would be "infer" or "infra." I didn't say demi meant less. Demi means half, part, so forth. It's incorrect usage to have the term "demi-human" applied to a race that has nothing to do with humans. I never saw elves, dwarves, etc, as "part human" or "half humans". The demi-lich part, I can see it. It's "part" lich in the sense that it retains it's original lich abilities, but retains only partial aspects of it's physicality. I still think it's not the choicest of prefixes. Arch (in such usage as archmagi, archangel, archbishop, etc) denotes higher posistion/standing (ie: chief). Why good liches are regarded as archliches simply doesn't make any sense to me. It makes more sense to me to simply remove the alignment requirement of the lich template (they had no problem forgetting it with Ioulaum!:P), thus any lich with a good alignment is just that, a good aligned lich. Demi-liches, imo, are bettered termed as archliches, as they are a type of lich above and beyond standard liches.
Faraer 06-24-07, 05:02 PM	As I mentioned, real language is often not that logical, or we'd be using simplified spelling or Esperanto. 'Demihuman' is more a game than an in-world term, referring to humanlike nonhuman races that aren't monsters -- as I'm sure you know too. Archliches are different from other liches, both practically -- their lichnee process doesn't call for the death of sapient beings -- and culturally, among those who know what they are.
Karsus the Mad 06-24-07, 05:09 PM	As I said, it's just one of my quirks:P I am talking about out-of-game usage btw:)
Paix 06-24-07, 08:31 PM	The prefix comes from greek and that one being a specific language contrary to english it did not retain the entire etymology. It has a dual meaning depending on the spelling and usage; it can be used to denote a higher staion (the usage in english) but it alsa means 'beginning' or 'first'. Perhaps in terms of lore it can be explained that archliches came into existence first while the more infamous relatives came into existence after them. Or perhaps it can be used to denote that they live through positive energy, related to creation that came before destruction (negative energy). Just some lore I used in my game for a player researching liches and the lore surrounding them.
Lord Karsus 06-25-07, 10:56 AM	as for arch-lich, well I'll attributable that to the elven superiority complex. -For the second time, Archliches are not exclusivley Elven.