Balor vs. Pit Fiend [Archive] - Wizards Community

Balor vs. Pit Fiend [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Beaver
08-01-07, 02:45 AM Who would win in this epic duel?
Slayergnome
08-01-07, 02:55 AM I think the Belor will win. Vorpal blade, a tad bit more hit points. Though the Pit Fiend would be immune to his fire oriented stuff. Then there is also the fact even if the Pit Fiend did destroy the Belor the Death throes special attack would likely kill the Pit Fiend as well..so it would be either a win for the Belor or a draw as they'd both die. Of course the luck of the rolls and who gets the drop on who plays a big part.
Green Elven Vampire
08-01-07, 02:57 AM 3ED Pit Fiend would beat a 3ED Balor. I don't have the 3.5 MM.
Panurg
08-01-07, 08:17 AM In 3.5 a Pit Fiend is a bit more powerfull. He has more and deadlier spell like abs. and higher spell resistance also his abilities are slightly higher.
So in a conflict like a war between the two and their armies, the Pit Fiend has better chances in my opinion.

But in a direct confrontation I think the extra hit dice and weaponry of a Balor make the day. Also mind that the Balor is more than twice as heavy as the pit fiend, thogh they are nearly the same sice if I remember corectly, so this should also have an impact on judging on a physical confrontation.
Eli_the_Tanner
08-01-07, 09:51 AM Unless the Balor has some way of enchanting his weapons as good and silver he will be unable to 'kill' the Pit fiend, the best that can be acheived is a defeat or a forced retreat. Purely on these mechanics we would have to say that the Pit Fiend would win in a battle to the death (barring unlucky saves against implosion etc.).
Drew1369r
08-01-07, 06:53 PM The pit fiend wouldn't get himself caught in a direct battle with a balor to begin with
Zebppir
08-01-07, 07:36 PM The pit fiend wouldn't get himself caught in a direct battle with a balor to begin with

yes he would for two reasons

1. pit fiends are devils devils hate/fear chaos its one of the things that scare a devil
A. balor= demon=evil chaos/balor big embodiment of chaotic evil
B. if said pit fiend was in a battle with a balor he would attack it first as one
its stategic to kill the leader/commander/general over fodder
Drew1369r
08-01-07, 08:05 PM This was talking about a one on one battle... a pit fiend would find its way around a direct confrontation and kill it smartly rather then a full frontal battle...

Yes they are pure enemies but would still try and avoid a direct fight with the Balor...
starfalconkd
08-01-07, 08:30 PM Depending on exactly how regeneration and a vorpal sword interact would determine the winner of this fight. However the pit fiend's wish ability could alter the outcome significantly.
I'd say the balor could kill the pit fiend by decapitating it, but the pit fiend is never going to get close enough to a balor to let that happen. So the balor would resort to save or die implosion until the pit fiend died. While the pit fiend casts mass hold monster until he holds the balor and the coup de grace's him. I think it's really just a matter of dice, how the pit fiend uses his wish, and whether the balor can close for melee.
Lord Karsus
08-01-07, 08:42 PM -Go ask the Character Optimization people...:rolleyes:
Drew1369r
08-01-07, 10:17 PM The only problem with implosion is that it only works once against someone during the spell time frame... he has one chance with implosion
Lady_Mhaor
08-02-07, 09:12 AM Who would win in this epic duel?

easy, the thayians that summoned the to fight
ShadezofDis
08-02-07, 09:58 AM -Go ask the Character Optimization people...:rolleyes:

FTW
Voric
08-02-07, 10:37 AM Most likely the Pit Fiend would be too Intelligent and calculating to find himself in any sort of one-on-one with a Balor.

And the Balor would definitely rather send lesser minions after the Fiend than himself, for Balor's are quite cowardly at heart. They prefer weaker victims they can torture and terrorize rather than a challenege that might result in their end.
Lykor
08-02-07, 11:13 AM Pit Fiend has more AC and Regeneration, while balor has more raw HP. Both have DR 15/good and X. Both have unholy aura, greater teleport, and greater dispel as a spell like ability and similar immunities (fire, poison). Balors have Implosion and Confusion and true seeing, while pit fiends have hold monster, invisibility, and a fear aura. Both have similar saves, BAB, and grapple. Both have similiar feat selections.

Essentially, the fight hinges on 3 things:
1) In a spell like ability war, both have DC 27 save or die spells against a DC 19. Works out to luck either way. However, pit fiends have 4 greater SR.

2) In a melee fight, the pit fiend has a distinct advantage. Most of the balor's weapons don't do enough damage to penetrate DR, while the pit fiend has several. Plus, the pit fiend's greater AC advantage means that it can power attack for more. Toss in the improved grab ability and the pit fiend will own a balor.

3) Vorpal. 5% chance a round for automatic win, but it can't use this while grappled.

Advantage: I'll have to go with the pit fiend. It's grappling means seems a bit much for the balor to overcome.
Eli_the_Tanner
08-02-07, 05:38 PM I've posted this question to the CO boards and already some crazy stuff is coming back. It seems though they are siding with the Pit fiend, partly due to it's Wish.

Here is the link to the discussion: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13280365#post13280365
Drew1369r
08-02-07, 05:47 PM The CO people are turds
Lord Karsus
08-02-07, 06:43 PM I've posted this question to the CO boards and already some crazy stuff is coming back.

-See, I told you.
Eli_the_Tanner
08-02-07, 06:59 PM One should never doubt the ability of the CO boards to render a perfectly good debate redundant.
Splarg
08-09-07, 04:59 AM the pit fiend i'm pretty sure would use his wish to blitz the vorpal sword, thus taking it out of the equation.
msatran
08-10-07, 02:57 PM Here's how that works.

Pit Fiend: Lieutennant Thrax. Could I possibly persuade you to wish that I would be completely unable to be harmed by that Balor over there for the rest of my life?

Lieutennant Thrax: I obey.

Pit Fiend walks over to Balor and slaughters him.

Pit Fiend: Thank you, Lieutennant Thrax. You are now Colonel Thrax. Have a good day.
arveiaturace_nartheling
08-10-07, 09:15 PM pit fiend walks over stabs then loots leaves. that how that works
Lord Karsus
08-11-07, 12:03 AM pit fiend walks over stabs then loots leaves. that how that works

-This is what I got from that:

[The] Pit Fiend walks over [and] stabs [itself, causing it's death in the process]. Then [, a group of adventurers arrive. One] loots [the dead corpse, but is turned into] leaves [growing on a tree].
GothicDan
08-11-07, 12:41 AM Or perhaps he loots the leaves.
Lord Karsus
08-11-07, 06:10 PM -How, exactly, does one loot leaves? You scrape off the cell wall, or something?
Passivearmada
08-12-07, 04:11 PM Let's see. I'm not an expert on D&D or many of the monsters, and I don't think I ever will be, but I must say that the Pit Fiend entry seems to outshine the Balor's. The battle could go either way, depending on several factors:

A. Where the battle is. If it's on the Abyss, the Balor will likely lose, because an outsider can only truly be killed on its home plane, and the same applies for the Pit Fiend. The aggressor's soldiers, when "killed" would simply return to their home plane to fight another day.

B. The element of surprise. I don't really need to explain that, do I?

C. Preparation. I am unsure about Pit Fiends, but I know Balors are immortal of age as long as they are in the Abyss. As the entry in the MMv3.5 states, due to this immortality, Balors are very patient and have all the time they need to plan, prepare, or wait out until their enemy dies.

Just some stuff that came to my mind right away, and I'm sure you brilliant people can find a flaw somewhere in there. I view it less as "would the Balor or Pit Fiend win?" and more as "Why would they be fighting in the first place?"
Aren't Pit Fiends too busy with chaotic good folk, and Balors more busy with the lawful good folk?
Eli_the_Tanner
08-13-07, 09:12 AM "Why would they be fighting in the first place?"
Aren't Pit Fiends too busy with chaotic good folk, and Balors more busy with the lawful good folk?

Have you heard of the Blood War - it's little get-together that demons and devils have.
shadowninja05
08-14-07, 02:39 PM Have you heard of the Blood War - it's little get-together that demons and devils have.

It's more of a traditional social event ;) lmao, except each side express their opinion with blades and hellfire...
Eli_the_Tanner
08-14-07, 07:49 PM It's more of a traditional social event ;) lmao, except each side express their opinion with blades and hellfire...

I think they are required to bring cake and punch aswell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beaver 08-01-07, 02:45 AM	Who would win in this epic duel?
Slayergnome 08-01-07, 02:55 AM	I think the Belor will win. Vorpal blade, a tad bit more hit points. Though the Pit Fiend would be immune to his fire oriented stuff. Then there is also the fact even if the Pit Fiend did destroy the Belor the Death throes special attack would likely kill the Pit Fiend as well..so it would be either a win for the Belor or a draw as they'd both die. Of course the luck of the rolls and who gets the drop on who plays a big part.
Green Elven Vampire 08-01-07, 02:57 AM	3ED Pit Fiend would beat a 3ED Balor. I don't have the 3.5 MM.
Panurg 08-01-07, 08:17 AM	In 3.5 a Pit Fiend is a bit more powerfull. He has more and deadlier spell like abs. and higher spell resistance also his abilities are slightly higher. So in a conflict like a war between the two and their armies, the Pit Fiend has better chances in my opinion. But in a direct confrontation I think the extra hit dice and weaponry of a Balor make the day. Also mind that the Balor is more than twice as heavy as the pit fiend, thogh they are nearly the same sice if I remember corectly, so this should also have an impact on judging on a physical confrontation.
Eli_the_Tanner 08-01-07, 09:51 AM	Unless the Balor has some way of enchanting his weapons as good and silver he will be unable to 'kill' the Pit fiend, the best that can be acheived is a defeat or a forced retreat. Purely on these mechanics we would have to say that the Pit Fiend would win in a battle to the death (barring unlucky saves against implosion etc.).
Drew1369r 08-01-07, 06:53 PM	The pit fiend wouldn't get himself caught in a direct battle with a balor to begin with
Zebppir 08-01-07, 07:36 PM	The pit fiend wouldn't get himself caught in a direct battle with a balor to begin with yes he would for two reasons 1. pit fiends are devils devils hate/fear chaos its one of the things that scare a devil A. balor= demon=evil chaos/balor big embodiment of chaotic evil B. if said pit fiend was in a battle with a balor he would attack it first as one its stategic to kill the leader/commander/general over fodder
Drew1369r 08-01-07, 08:05 PM	This was talking about a one on one battle... a pit fiend would find its way around a direct confrontation and kill it smartly rather then a full frontal battle... Yes they are pure enemies but would still try and avoid a direct fight with the Balor...
starfalconkd 08-01-07, 08:30 PM	Depending on exactly how regeneration and a vorpal sword interact would determine the winner of this fight. However the pit fiend's wish ability could alter the outcome significantly. I'd say the balor could kill the pit fiend by decapitating it, but the pit fiend is never going to get close enough to a balor to let that happen. So the balor would resort to save or die implosion until the pit fiend died. While the pit fiend casts mass hold monster until he holds the balor and the coup de grace's him. I think it's really just a matter of dice, how the pit fiend uses his wish, and whether the balor can close for melee.
Lord Karsus 08-01-07, 08:42 PM	-Go ask the Character Optimization people...:rolleyes:
Drew1369r 08-01-07, 10:17 PM	The only problem with implosion is that it only works once against someone during the spell time frame... he has one chance with implosion
Lady_Mhaor 08-02-07, 09:12 AM	Who would win in this epic duel? easy, the thayians that summoned the to fight
ShadezofDis 08-02-07, 09:58 AM	-Go ask the Character Optimization people...:rolleyes: FTW
Voric 08-02-07, 10:37 AM	Most likely the Pit Fiend would be too Intelligent and calculating to find himself in any sort of one-on-one with a Balor. And the Balor would definitely rather send lesser minions after the Fiend than himself, for Balor's are quite cowardly at heart. They prefer weaker victims they can torture and terrorize rather than a challenege that might result in their end.
Lykor 08-02-07, 11:13 AM	Pit Fiend has more AC and Regeneration, while balor has more raw HP. Both have DR 15/good and X. Both have unholy aura, greater teleport, and greater dispel as a spell like ability and similar immunities (fire, poison). Balors have Implosion and Confusion and true seeing, while pit fiends have hold monster, invisibility, and a fear aura. Both have similar saves, BAB, and grapple. Both have similiar feat selections. Essentially, the fight hinges on 3 things: 1) In a spell like ability war, both have DC 27 save or die spells against a DC 19. Works out to luck either way. However, pit fiends have 4 greater SR. 2) In a melee fight, the pit fiend has a distinct advantage. Most of the balor's weapons don't do enough damage to penetrate DR, while the pit fiend has several. Plus, the pit fiend's greater AC advantage means that it can power attack for more. Toss in the improved grab ability and the pit fiend will own a balor. 3) Vorpal. 5% chance a round for automatic win, but it can't use this while grappled. Advantage: I'll have to go with the pit fiend. It's grappling means seems a bit much for the balor to overcome.
Eli_the_Tanner 08-02-07, 05:38 PM	I've posted this question to the CO boards and already some crazy stuff is coming back. It seems though they are siding with the Pit fiend, partly due to it's Wish. Here is the link to the discussion: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13280365#post13280365
Drew1369r 08-02-07, 05:47 PM	The CO people are turds
Lord Karsus 08-02-07, 06:43 PM	I've posted this question to the CO boards and already some crazy stuff is coming back. -See, I told you.
Eli_the_Tanner 08-02-07, 06:59 PM	One should never doubt the ability of the CO boards to render a perfectly good debate redundant.
Splarg 08-09-07, 04:59 AM	the pit fiend i'm pretty sure would use his wish to blitz the vorpal sword, thus taking it out of the equation.
msatran 08-10-07, 02:57 PM	Here's how that works. Pit Fiend: Lieutennant Thrax. Could I possibly persuade you to wish that I would be completely unable to be harmed by that Balor over there for the rest of my life? Lieutennant Thrax: I obey. Pit Fiend walks over to Balor and slaughters him. Pit Fiend: Thank you, Lieutennant Thrax. You are now Colonel Thrax. Have a good day.
arveiaturace_nartheling 08-10-07, 09:15 PM	pit fiend walks over stabs then loots leaves. that how that works
Lord Karsus 08-11-07, 12:03 AM	pit fiend walks over stabs then loots leaves. that how that works -This is what I got from that: [The] Pit Fiend walks over [and] stabs [itself, causing it's death in the process]. Then [, a group of adventurers arrive. One] loots [the dead corpse, but is turned into] leaves [growing on a tree].
GothicDan 08-11-07, 12:41 AM	Or perhaps he loots the leaves.
Lord Karsus 08-11-07, 06:10 PM	-How, exactly, does one loot leaves? You scrape off the cell wall, or something?
Passivearmada 08-12-07, 04:11 PM	Let's see. I'm not an expert on D&D or many of the monsters, and I don't think I ever will be, but I must say that the Pit Fiend entry seems to outshine the Balor's. The battle could go either way, depending on several factors: A. Where the battle is. If it's on the Abyss, the Balor will likely lose, because an outsider can only truly be killed on its home plane, and the same applies for the Pit Fiend. The aggressor's soldiers, when "killed" would simply return to their home plane to fight another day. B. The element of surprise. I don't really need to explain that, do I? C. Preparation. I am unsure about Pit Fiends, but I know Balors are immortal of age as long as they are in the Abyss. As the entry in the MMv3.5 states, due to this immortality, Balors are very patient and have all the time they need to plan, prepare, or wait out until their enemy dies. Just some stuff that came to my mind right away, and I'm sure you brilliant people can find a flaw somewhere in there. I view it less as "would the Balor or Pit Fiend win?" and more as "Why would they be fighting in the first place?" Aren't Pit Fiends too busy with chaotic good folk, and Balors more busy with the lawful good folk?
Eli_the_Tanner 08-13-07, 09:12 AM	"Why would they be fighting in the first place?" Aren't Pit Fiends too busy with chaotic good folk, and Balors more busy with the lawful good folk? Have you heard of the Blood War - it's little get-together that demons and devils have.
shadowninja05 08-14-07, 02:39 PM	Have you heard of the Blood War - it's little get-together that demons and devils have. It's more of a traditional social event ;) lmao, except each side express their opinion with blades and hellfire...
Eli_the_Tanner 08-14-07, 07:49 PM	It's more of a traditional social event ;) lmao, except each side express their opinion with blades and hellfire... I think they are required to bring cake and punch aswell.