Bard [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Bard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
balfor
07-11-07, 09:44 AM I like to stay open minded about the possibilities behind every character class, but time and time again I keep asking myself what use is a bard really? I know the generalist theory, but most parties are going to have at least 1 arcane spellcaster and a rogue so what good is the bard. I would appreciate everyone's opinion. :confused:
Passivearmada
07-11-07, 12:08 PM personally, i think the bard is the party's diplomat. this allows the rogue to focus more on stealth and acrobatics rather than being a people person. the bard is a good supporting man, too. if you have a ton of enchantments on you, a few bard spells can be the secret ingredient to invincibility for a few rounds. and who doesnt want some music on the long quiet road? a bard is the only class i can name offhand that has the speak language skill, so you can communicate with lots of people. it makes me angry when people say bard suck and theyre useless, cause those people are usually half-orc barbarians (suckers- how can you survive being so unintelligent? i'd like to some of those face off againts an epic psion! or other master of the mind. does anyone know what the best book for money is for a psionic character? ive been dying to find one!)bards also have spells, so if your wizards is knocked out, the bard might be able to help clean up until the wizard is healed up. which proposes another question- what is the bighuge difference between a wizard and a sorcerer? besides the spells per day and bonus feats, that is.
arveiaturace_nartheling
07-11-07, 12:24 PM its a good basic class but theres better ones
Passivearmada
07-11-07, 12:24 PM also, the bard is usually the witty one. i, as a DM, like to propose more challenges tham just-
"yes, you walk into the treasure hold and about 150 zombies jump out. now since you're all level 17, i think you'll be able to handle this pretty well..."
roleplaying isn't all combat- then it'd be called combatplaying. like, set up a chendelier over the zombies, or somehow use the environment to your advantage.
and who says that you can't talk your way out of a battle (not in the zombie case)? allies are nice to have when you're approaching the illithid lich-lord.
especially if they were trying to kill you a few minutes ago, cause then you don't feel bad if they die (well, im chaotic neutral, so, uh.... i guessi dont care....).
i will admit that bards are pretty useless if you just have the PHB, but if you buy other resource books, you have a greater edge.
only people that are a little tired of the hack-and-slash approch to life should try being a bard.
customdrapery
07-11-07, 02:42 PM I like the Bard, despite being somewhat weak compared to some of the other core classes, but that's because it is a jack-of-all-trades and master of none. I like them because they have a decent selection of skills, decent combat and spellcasting. I use the bard as kind of a spell-casting rogue, with some healing spells thrown in.
Faraer
07-11-07, 07:33 PM . . . so what good is the bard. I would appreciate everyone's opinion. :confused:What use is a comedian, a storyteller, a diplomat, a lorekeeper, a musician? Is it so confusing? Bards' fighting abilities -- though puissant in the right circumstances and with intelligent play -- are secondary.

Read "Mintiper's Chapbook" (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/mc) for insight into bards in the Realms -- this being a Realms message board.
Passivearmada
07-11-07, 10:05 PM um... im not sure i got your message, faraer....
dragonheart
07-11-07, 10:16 PM Faraer's message can be boiled down to:

ROLE PLAY (not roll play)

which I agree with whole heartedly. If you stop to think about things either "realistically" or "historically" then the bard is the ultimate adventurer - he is constantly on the move, into everything to try to get his stories and a jack of all trades. One of these days I'm going to talk a group of players into doing an all bard party - one will be the cleric of Finder but still really a bard.:D
Eli_the_Tanner
07-31-07, 08:44 PM I don't think the arguement that the Bard is the 'Roleplaying' class is very fair. All the classes are there to be role-played, from the humble fighter to the reality shaping Wizard.

I see the Bard as the character who can always compete, always has a use. A Bard is always in the running, whether he's the best is another thing. A fighter can't compete with a wizard in a spell-duel or sneak up on the rogue...but the Bard can. The Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, cleric all have something that they will have to say "Someone else will have to deal with this" Wheras the Bard can always say "I can have a go". This is what makes him the ideal support role, but also the most versatile of the classes.

Choose Bard, Choose Options.
wilekat
08-02-07, 08:04 AM You'd be surprised how much Bardic Music can help with difficult combats. There a source of secondary healing for when the primary drops. Bardic Knowledge when well DM'd can be ace.

Also re: Bardic Spells. Though it is difficult to make a Bard a primary arcane cast in a party I have seen it being done. However as a secondary they rock. They can have the useful things like charms that are awesome but maybe not needed everyday... let alone the useful Bard only spells.

And finally most Bards, due to the need of Charisma as a primary stat and with Decipher Script and spellcraft as class skills, have a kick-arse UMD score.
Faraer
08-02-07, 08:39 AM I don't think the arguement that the Bard is the 'Roleplaying' class is very fair. All the classes are there to be role-played, from the humble fighter to the reality shaping Wizard.Certainly. But it is the supreme talking -- and singing and playing and storytelling -- class, and this is the particular fun of playing a bard, more than just being a jack-of-all-trades combat playing piece.
ShadezofDis
08-02-07, 12:56 PM Bard's are wonderfully useful in any type of urban campaign, or really any situation where one would employ social skills (trying to convince the goblins not to eat you or things along these lines)

Further, bards are a huge source of information, through bardic knowledge and other knowledge skills. Need to know who's good at getting rid of hot items? Go to a bard. Need to know what groups are plotting out a way to perform a large heist? Go to a bard. Bards are in a societal position to be told news, to overhear news and to corrilate that news with existing knowledge.

It's also a pretty easy way to get an inn keeper to like you, almost any inn would love to have a bard playing as it typically will draw more customers and inn keepers (or barmen or whomever) are wonderful sources of information.

While they may not be as sneaky as rogues, as powerful a spell caster as a wizard or cleric or as good a fighter as a fighter they do have a smattering of all these abilities and if played in an intelligent manner they can be a huge boon to any adventuring party.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
balfor 07-11-07, 09:44 AM	I like to stay open minded about the possibilities behind every character class, but time and time again I keep asking myself what use is a bard really? I know the generalist theory, but most parties are going to have at least 1 arcane spellcaster and a rogue so what good is the bard. I would appreciate everyone's opinion. :confused:
Passivearmada 07-11-07, 12:08 PM	personally, i think the bard is the party's diplomat. this allows the rogue to focus more on stealth and acrobatics rather than being a people person. the bard is a good supporting man, too. if you have a ton of enchantments on you, a few bard spells can be the secret ingredient to invincibility for a few rounds. and who doesnt want some music on the long quiet road? a bard is the only class i can name offhand that has the speak language skill, so you can communicate with lots of people. it makes me angry when people say bard suck and theyre useless, cause those people are usually half-orc barbarians (suckers- how can you survive being so unintelligent? i'd like to some of those face off againts an epic psion! or other master of the mind. does anyone know what the best book for money is for a psionic character? ive been dying to find one!)bards also have spells, so if your wizards is knocked out, the bard might be able to help clean up until the wizard is healed up. which proposes another question- what is the bighuge difference between a wizard and a sorcerer? besides the spells per day and bonus feats, that is.
arveiaturace_nartheling 07-11-07, 12:24 PM	its a good basic class but theres better ones
Passivearmada 07-11-07, 12:24 PM	also, the bard is usually the witty one. i, as a DM, like to propose more challenges tham just- "yes, you walk into the treasure hold and about 150 zombies jump out. now since you're all level 17, i think you'll be able to handle this pretty well..." roleplaying isn't all combat- then it'd be called combatplaying. like, set up a chendelier over the zombies, or somehow use the environment to your advantage. and who says that you can't talk your way out of a battle (not in the zombie case)? allies are nice to have when you're approaching the illithid lich-lord. especially if they were trying to kill you a few minutes ago, cause then you don't feel bad if they die (well, im chaotic neutral, so, uh.... i guessi dont care....). i will admit that bards are pretty useless if you just have the PHB, but if you buy other resource books, you have a greater edge. only people that are a little tired of the hack-and-slash approch to life should try being a bard.
customdrapery 07-11-07, 02:42 PM	I like the Bard, despite being somewhat weak compared to some of the other core classes, but that's because it is a jack-of-all-trades and master of none. I like them because they have a decent selection of skills, decent combat and spellcasting. I use the bard as kind of a spell-casting rogue, with some healing spells thrown in.
Faraer 07-11-07, 07:33 PM	. . . so what good is the bard. I would appreciate everyone's opinion. :confused:What use is a comedian, a storyteller, a diplomat, a lorekeeper, a musician? Is it so confusing? Bards' fighting abilities -- though puissant in the right circumstances and with intelligent play -- are secondary. Read "Mintiper's Chapbook" (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/mc) for insight into bards in the Realms -- this being a Realms message board.
Passivearmada 07-11-07, 10:05 PM	um... im not sure i got your message, faraer....
dragonheart 07-11-07, 10:16 PM	Faraer's message can be boiled down to: ROLE PLAY (not roll play) which I agree with whole heartedly. If you stop to think about things either "realistically" or "historically" then the bard is the ultimate adventurer - he is constantly on the move, into everything to try to get his stories and a jack of all trades. One of these days I'm going to talk a group of players into doing an all bard party - one will be the cleric of Finder but still really a bard.:D
Eli_the_Tanner 07-31-07, 08:44 PM	I don't think the arguement that the Bard is the 'Roleplaying' class is very fair. All the classes are there to be role-played, from the humble fighter to the reality shaping Wizard. I see the Bard as the character who can always compete, always has a use. A Bard is always in the running, whether he's the best is another thing. A fighter can't compete with a wizard in a spell-duel or sneak up on the rogue...but the Bard can. The Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, cleric all have something that they will have to say "Someone else will have to deal with this" Wheras the Bard can always say "I can have a go". This is what makes him the ideal support role, but also the most versatile of the classes. Choose Bard, Choose Options.
wilekat 08-02-07, 08:04 AM	You'd be surprised how much Bardic Music can help with difficult combats. There a source of secondary healing for when the primary drops. Bardic Knowledge when well DM'd can be ace. Also re: Bardic Spells. Though it is difficult to make a Bard a primary arcane cast in a party I have seen it being done. However as a secondary they rock. They can have the useful things like charms that are awesome but maybe not needed everyday... let alone the useful Bard only spells. And finally most Bards, due to the need of Charisma as a primary stat and with Decipher Script and spellcraft as class skills, have a kick-arse UMD score.
Faraer 08-02-07, 08:39 AM	I don't think the arguement that the Bard is the 'Roleplaying' class is very fair. All the classes are there to be role-played, from the humble fighter to the reality shaping Wizard.Certainly. But it is the supreme talking -- and singing and playing and storytelling -- class, and this is the particular fun of playing a bard, more than just being a jack-of-all-trades combat playing piece.
ShadezofDis 08-02-07, 12:56 PM	Bard's are wonderfully useful in any type of urban campaign, or really any situation where one would employ social skills (trying to convince the goblins not to eat you or things along these lines) Further, bards are a huge source of information, through bardic knowledge and other knowledge skills. Need to know who's good at getting rid of hot items? Go to a bard. Need to know what groups are plotting out a way to perform a large heist? Go to a bard. Bards are in a societal position to be told news, to overhear news and to corrilate that news with existing knowledge. It's also a pretty easy way to get an inn keeper to like you, almost any inn would love to have a bard playing as it typically will draw more customers and inn keepers (or barmen or whomever) are wonderful sources of information. While they may not be as sneaky as rogues, as powerful a spell caster as a wizard or cleric or as good a fighter as a fighter they do have a smattering of all these abilities and if played in an intelligent manner they can be a huge boon to any adventuring party.