Battlerager? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battlerager? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nivek_kpk
07-24-07, 11:44 AM Hi folks,
I'm looking to create a battlerager type character, but I don't know if the prc in Races of Faerun is still 'usable' and I'm not sure if it's the best bang for my buck.

Can anyone provide assistance in creating my Shield Dwarf "butt kicker"?
Drew1369r
07-24-07, 12:46 PM The PrC in RoF killed the flavor of the Battlerager... BUT your best bet is to take one lvl of barb the rest fighter and then the PrC for the namesake. Talk with the DM and create some feats like armor fighting or something of that nature.
Purple Dragon Knight
07-26-07, 12:43 PM Yes, I replaced some of Battlerager's bonus feats for Improved Grapple and other things... I'm not in front of my house computer right now but I'll check later and give you the details... I remember the changes I made back then brought back the class to its original flavor (~ish) and my player was quite satisfied power-wise... very satisfied! :)
Nivek_kpk
07-26-07, 03:36 PM PDK I'd be interested in your revised Battlerager build (obiously) if you could toss it too me that'd be great
Purple Dragon Knight
07-27-07, 08:13 PM Wow! it's easier than I thought!

I just replaced Reckless Offensive by Improved Grapple! :D
Purple Dragon Knight
07-27-07, 08:33 PM Note that Battleragers have the Tumble skill as one of their class skills... I remember that player had a Mithral Full Plate and made heavy use of the Tumble skill to get right in the middle of a big frantic melee.

He could almost never be caught in a grapple or swallowed whole thanks to his Close-Quarter Fighting feat. Fearless is a NICE addition too, as barbarian/fighter types usually have a crappy Will save.

I remember the player using a dwarven thrower MAUL (same enchantments as the DMG version, but on a MAUL instead; yes, this meant only one ranged attack per round instead of multiples, but still... with Power Attack, it was... nice! :D [read: over 100 dmg OFTEN] )

Improved Grapple is more useful to Battleragers than Reckless Offensive IMO. Otherwise the game is thrown out of proportion damage-wise, while the Battlerager becomes a constant drain on healing resources due to his ridiculously low AC. I especially like the descriptive text on armor spikes, in the PHB: "You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack."

This means a Battlerager with all 5 levels (Improved Unarmed Strike + Improved Grapple) deals 1d3 bludgeoning + STR bonus + 1d6 piercing in a grapple. Not bad considering he/she doesn't have to drop his/her big two-handed weapon in the process. If someone tries to grappble them, they whack them with a two-handed weapon hit, add that dmg to their grapple bonus +4 from the Improved Grapple feat; if this still fails, they make checks at +4 in the following round using their spiked armor. Can you say Pwent? :D
BadCatMan
07-28-07, 12:00 AM See Armour Razors from Underdark - just like spikes, but slashing, which as I recall was what Pwent had.

And the Spiked Helmet from Races Of Faerun.
Mad Mage
07-28-07, 01:11 AM See Armour Razors from Underdark - just like spikes, but slashing, which as I recall was what Pwent had.

And the Spiked Helmet from Races Of Faerun.

Yeah, Pwent likely had those, alongside spiked gauntlets.

I dunno why, but every time I think of Pwent doing his thing, I can hear some sort of saw or lathe in my head shredding a piece of wood to pieces. :embarrass

Ahem!

@ Purple Dragon Knight: Yeah, I can kinda get what you're getting at with Improved Grapple as a replacement for Reckless Offense. If you ask me, though, the Battlerager, as it stands in RoF, was more meant for characters like Korgan Bloodaxe from the Realms computer game Baldur's Gate 2. Imp Grapple for the Gutbuster Brigade, yeah.
Borris
07-28-07, 01:27 AM I would also strongly recommend the blood-spiked charger feat from the Player's Handbook II. It grants you a series of melee combat maneuvers with armor spikes and shield spikes.
Purple Dragon Knight
07-28-07, 02:31 AM Hmmm... cool! thanks Borris!
Purple Dragon Knight
07-28-07, 02:34 AM Good point BadCatMan: I think armor razors might be more useful in general... I think I read a swallow whole ability description somewhere which called for "slashing damage from a light weapon" being the only way out of that critter's gut... (but I am not sure if it just said "light weapon" or "light slashing OR piercing weapon"; I'm almost 99% sure that "light bludgeoning" are of no help whatsoever... DHTBIFOM though...)
Passivearmada
07-29-07, 08:43 AM ah, pwent.... good memories of those books.
ive been considering putting a group with a Gutbuster Brigade feel, and ive been looking for this. i think that they should kind of have the monk's unarmed damage, but it would be armed unarmed damage.
so it would be equal to (in my opinion)=1d3+STR bonus+1d6 spikes+1d6 class feature, but then you're getting the equivalent of a greatsword (almost). maybe even a d4 instead of a d6. i remember somewhere in the books, it was mentioned that Pwent and the Gutbusters were exceptionally good brawlers (duh), and i think they'd be just as good as fighting armorless, in say, a tavern brawl (which i've wanted to do for sooooooooo long!). of course, minus the spikes, so -1d6 (or d4), but still the d3, STR, d6. just an idea, because i know they were like expert grapplers, but i think they should do better in an actual fight (damage-wise) than what we're giving them.
Purple Dragon Knight
07-29-07, 12:55 PM Remember that they have Improved Unarmed Attack (IUA) already, which means that they do 1d3 REAL damage when unarmed (if they want to, they can deal subdual only... a good idea in a town setting), and that they do not provoke AoOs when attacking unarmed. They, in turn, get an AoO if an unarmed person without the IUA feat attacks them...

So, in a brawl... the general populace or novel narrator would describe them as deadly for that very reason. It would be akin to a bunch of pro boxers showing at a local pub and get into a brawl: one would clearly see that these guys have a bit of an "edge"... :D
Passivearmada
07-29-07, 01:24 PM They get an Attack of Opportunity against attackers without Improved Unarmed Strike when they attack them unarmed?!?!?!?!? THAT'S CRAZY!!!!!!!!
Still a little too...wimpy for me. I envision these guys punching so hard, they'd do as much damage as a club. Let's say that this Battlrager was a dwarf with.... 17 Strength (+3). He (on a succesful hit) could deal anywhere from (with a spiked gauntlet) 5-12 damage with one attack. Not bad for a single attack, but with two.... And do you need to have the Two-Weapon-Fighting feat to be able to use both fists? Does that count as wielding two weapons?
captaincarot
07-29-07, 01:32 PM it would count a wielding 2 light weapons, so you could get down to -2/-2 on your dual attacks.
Passivearmada
07-30-07, 10:14 AM Hmmm... I see. That's what I figured- thank you Captain Carot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nivek_kpk 07-24-07, 11:44 AM	Hi folks, I'm looking to create a battlerager type character, but I don't know if the prc in Races of Faerun is still 'usable' and I'm not sure if it's the best bang for my buck. Can anyone provide assistance in creating my Shield Dwarf "butt kicker"?
Drew1369r 07-24-07, 12:46 PM	The PrC in RoF killed the flavor of the Battlerager... BUT your best bet is to take one lvl of barb the rest fighter and then the PrC for the namesake. Talk with the DM and create some feats like armor fighting or something of that nature.
Purple Dragon Knight 07-26-07, 12:43 PM	Yes, I replaced some of Battlerager's bonus feats for Improved Grapple and other things... I'm not in front of my house computer right now but I'll check later and give you the details... I remember the changes I made back then brought back the class to its original flavor (~ish) and my player was quite satisfied power-wise... very satisfied! :)
Nivek_kpk 07-26-07, 03:36 PM	PDK I'd be interested in your revised Battlerager build (obiously) if you could toss it too me that'd be great
Purple Dragon Knight 07-27-07, 08:13 PM	Wow! it's easier than I thought! I just replaced Reckless Offensive by Improved Grapple! :D
Purple Dragon Knight 07-27-07, 08:33 PM	Note that Battleragers have the Tumble skill as one of their class skills... I remember that player had a Mithral Full Plate and made heavy use of the Tumble skill to get right in the middle of a big frantic melee. He could almost never be caught in a grapple or swallowed whole thanks to his Close-Quarter Fighting feat. Fearless is a NICE addition too, as barbarian/fighter types usually have a crappy Will save. I remember the player using a dwarven thrower MAUL (same enchantments as the DMG version, but on a MAUL instead; yes, this meant only one ranged attack per round instead of multiples, but still... with Power Attack, it was... nice! :D [read: over 100 dmg OFTEN] ) Improved Grapple is more useful to Battleragers than Reckless Offensive IMO. Otherwise the game is thrown out of proportion damage-wise, while the Battlerager becomes a constant drain on healing resources due to his ridiculously low AC. I especially like the descriptive text on armor spikes, in the PHB: "You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack." This means a Battlerager with all 5 levels (Improved Unarmed Strike + Improved Grapple) deals 1d3 bludgeoning + STR bonus + 1d6 piercing in a grapple. Not bad considering he/she doesn't have to drop his/her big two-handed weapon in the process. If someone tries to grappble them, they whack them with a two-handed weapon hit, add that dmg to their grapple bonus +4 from the Improved Grapple feat; if this still fails, they make checks at +4 in the following round using their spiked armor. Can you say Pwent? :D
BadCatMan 07-28-07, 12:00 AM	See Armour Razors from Underdark - just like spikes, but slashing, which as I recall was what Pwent had. And the Spiked Helmet from Races Of Faerun.
Mad Mage 07-28-07, 01:11 AM	See Armour Razors from Underdark - just like spikes, but slashing, which as I recall was what Pwent had. And the Spiked Helmet from Races Of Faerun. Yeah, Pwent likely had those, alongside spiked gauntlets. I dunno why, but every time I think of Pwent doing his thing, I can hear some sort of saw or lathe in my head shredding a piece of wood to pieces. :embarrass Ahem! @ Purple Dragon Knight: Yeah, I can kinda get what you're getting at with Improved Grapple as a replacement for Reckless Offense. If you ask me, though, the Battlerager, as it stands in RoF, was more meant for characters like Korgan Bloodaxe from the Realms computer game Baldur's Gate 2. Imp Grapple for the Gutbuster Brigade, yeah.
Borris 07-28-07, 01:27 AM	I would also strongly recommend the blood-spiked charger feat from the Player's Handbook II. It grants you a series of melee combat maneuvers with armor spikes and shield spikes.
Purple Dragon Knight 07-28-07, 02:31 AM	Hmmm... cool! thanks Borris!
Purple Dragon Knight 07-28-07, 02:34 AM	Good point BadCatMan: I think armor razors might be more useful in general... I think I read a swallow whole ability description somewhere which called for "slashing damage from a light weapon" being the only way out of that critter's gut... (but I am not sure if it just said "light weapon" or "light slashing OR piercing weapon"; I'm almost 99% sure that "light bludgeoning" are of no help whatsoever... DHTBIFOM though...)
Passivearmada 07-29-07, 08:43 AM	ah, pwent.... good memories of those books. ive been considering putting a group with a Gutbuster Brigade feel, and ive been looking for this. i think that they should kind of have the monk's unarmed damage, but it would be armed unarmed damage. so it would be equal to (in my opinion)=1d3+STR bonus+1d6 spikes+1d6 class feature, but then you're getting the equivalent of a greatsword (almost). maybe even a d4 instead of a d6. i remember somewhere in the books, it was mentioned that Pwent and the Gutbusters were exceptionally good brawlers (duh), and i think they'd be just as good as fighting armorless, in say, a tavern brawl (which i've wanted to do for sooooooooo long!). of course, minus the spikes, so -1d6 (or d4), but still the d3, STR, d6. just an idea, because i know they were like expert grapplers, but i think they should do better in an actual fight (damage-wise) than what we're giving them.
Purple Dragon Knight 07-29-07, 12:55 PM	Remember that they have Improved Unarmed Attack (IUA) already, which means that they do 1d3 REAL damage when unarmed (if they want to, they can deal subdual only... a good idea in a town setting), and that they do not provoke AoOs when attacking unarmed. They, in turn, get an AoO if an unarmed person without the IUA feat attacks them... So, in a brawl... the general populace or novel narrator would describe them as deadly for that very reason. It would be akin to a bunch of pro boxers showing at a local pub and get into a brawl: one would clearly see that these guys have a bit of an "edge"... :D
Passivearmada 07-29-07, 01:24 PM	They get an Attack of Opportunity against attackers without Improved Unarmed Strike when they attack them unarmed?!?!?!?!? THAT'S CRAZY!!!!!!!! Still a little too...wimpy for me. I envision these guys punching so hard, they'd do as much damage as a club. Let's say that this Battlrager was a dwarf with.... 17 Strength (+3). He (on a succesful hit) could deal anywhere from (with a spiked gauntlet) 5-12 damage with one attack. Not bad for a single attack, but with two.... And do you need to have the Two-Weapon-Fighting feat to be able to use both fists? Does that count as wielding two weapons?
captaincarot 07-29-07, 01:32 PM	it would count a wielding 2 light weapons, so you could get down to -2/-2 on your dual attacks.
Passivearmada 07-30-07, 10:14 AM	Hmmm... I see. That's what I figured- thank you Captain Carot.