BladeSinger - Again [Archive] - Wizards Community

BladeSinger - Again [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dragonheart
04-07-07, 11:44 PM Looking through my books as I was building some NPCs I wanted a good bladesinger and realized that the class as written is a bit weak. At least in my opinion and given its great status lore wise as the class for the great elven protectors. Looking through my notes I discovered I had created my own version adn after updating it a bit I Present it here for comment - yes its a fairly strong Prestige class but then its supposed to be lore wise and at the same time it is significantly weaker in some ways that either a fighter or a wizard of comparable level.

Blade Singer –Revised
Requirements: Elven blood, BAB +4, Know: Arcana (6), Able to cast 2L spells, Balance 2, Concentration 4, perform (dance) 2, perform (sing) 2, Tumble 2, combat casting, combat expertise, dodge, weapon focus (long sword, rapier, elven thinblade)

Abilities:
Level BAB FS RS WS Special Spells
1 +1 0 +2 +2 Bladesong style, Somatic Weaponry +1 Level
2 +2 0 +3 +3 Channel Spell 1/d, -10 Spell Failure ----------
3 +3 +1 +3 +3 Song Of Celerity (2L) +1 Level
4 +4 +1 +4 +4 Channel Spell 3/d, -----------
5 +5 +1 +4 +4 Song of Celerity (3L) +1 Level
6 +6 +2 +5 +5 Greater Spell Song, Channel Spell 4/d ---------
7 +7 +2 +5 +5 Song of Celerity (4L) +1 Level
8 +8 +2 +6 +6 Channel Spell 5/d -----------
9 +9 +3 +6 +6 Song of Celerity (5L) +1 Level
10 +10 +3 +7 +7 Arcane Strike -----------

Blade Song Style: class level as dodge bonus to AC (up to Intel bonus with light or no armour and wielding sword one handed).
Somatic Weaponry: You are able to swing your weapon through the motions required to cast your spells rather than using a free hand to do so..
Channel Spell #/d: place any spell castable by PC into sword as a move action. Spell affects next creature hit only. The Spell stays in the sword up to 8 hours. At 2nd level it is usable once perday, this increases to 3/d at 4th level, 4/d at 6th level and 5/d at 8th level.
Song of Celerity: Yu are able to cast a spell of 2nd level or lower as a quickened spell without adding spell levels to it once per day. At 5th level the spell level castable increase to 3rd level, then to 4th at 7th level and 5th at 9th level.
Greater Spell Song: Ignore spell failure for light armour.
Arcane Strike: as the feat in Complete Warrior – channel a spell into an attack (weapon or unarmed) and get an attack bonus equal to the spell level on all attacks that round and a damage bonus of 1d4* spell level on attacks that round.

Any thoughts or comments?
serow_#R
04-08-07, 10:19 AM Have you tried looking at the one in the Elven Netbook posted on these boards here?
Burningspear
04-08-07, 08:10 PM I think game balance wise the Bab is to high, u might think of reducing it to cleric to hit, if i compare it to the DMG Eldritch knight, it only gains 1 bonusfeat and 9 caster levels in addition to +10 bab...i am not quite sure how heavy +10 bab and +5 caster levels + all those abilities would count though..
dragonheart
04-08-07, 08:55 PM I didn't think about cleric progression for BAB - you may wellbe right that it is what should have been used, Ill take a look tomorrow and think that over.
As for the abilities etc think about it this way: the Blade singer is supposed to be a true PRESTIGE class - the ultimate example of elven sword and spell mastery yet even doing the earliest possible progression (F4/W2) at 16th level your only the spellcasting equivalent of a level 7 wizard and melee wise your the equivalent of a 14th level figter WITH the progression as I have it - and your limited to light/no armour. Just for kicks I extended the class out to a 10 level epic progression since this Prc almost requires one lore wise. Assuming you used levels 17-20 for wizard levels and all of levels 21-30 for the progression you would still only match a 16th level wizard (8th level spells maximum) and be will behind a 30th level fighter combat wise those extra abilities are really notr that great a bonus. You could do almost as well simply by alternating fighter and wizard levels and using a few of the fighter feats to take things like Practised spellcaster, somatic weaponry and arcane strike as feats. in MNSHO a prestige class (especially one with the lore bhind it that this one does) should enable its characters to at the very least hold their own with the regular classes and probably offer something substantial in the way of extras to attract characters (before the lore is applied) otherwise why the heck did the first ones come into existence and how the heck did the class gain such prestige and lore?
I could easily see adding practised spellcaster at level 4/5, and a metamagic feat at level 7/8 then possibly adding two applications of the archmage spell power ability and maybe even mastery of counter spelling (done by slicing the spell with the sword a limited number of times a day) to the epic progression. Maybe even adding one additional caster level at levels 6, 10, 16 and 20 to speed up the spell casting progression so that by 30th level they could cast 9th level spells and by 32nd level ( I would take 2 levels of archmage with teh mastery of energy and arcane blast, mastery of shaping or another level of spell penetration) they would have the ability to think about going into epic spells as well. Now that would truely be a PRESTIGE CLASS! Of course it would also probably be considerd way overbalanced sadly. but that would at least fit and explain how the FR lore about blade singers came to be.
Burningspear
04-08-07, 09:24 PM games rules wise vs story wise, i never said it would be easy :tie:
Lord Karsus
04-08-07, 11:23 PM -I've been mulling around the idea lately that Bladesinger might simply be better off an actual Class, and not a Prestige Class.
dragonheart
04-09-07, 08:34 AM LK - your probably right. The more I look at it the more I think it should be a class similar to the ripoff duskblade. Ill have to look that one over again to see how I think it should be modified to create a FR bladesinger.
EytanBernstein
04-09-07, 09:12 AM I think it would be simple enough to have two similar bladesingers, both using the duskblade model as a basic structure. The traditional bladesigners would be able to cast in light armor, gain AC bonuses from Int, and would have a variety of defensive trick style spells (invisibility, dimension door, mirror image, blur, displacement, blink, and other similar spells). The additional powers would be mostly similar (combat casting, minor spell-like abilities, quick-cast), but instead of casting touch spells through melee weapons, bladesigners would be able to cast their defensive spells in the same round as their melee attacks. (I'd probably give them an extra ability chain similar to the Arcane Strike feat).

The duskblades are more brutal, favoring heavier armor (in place of Int bonuses to AC) and gain more offensive spells - touch spells, rays, weapon enhancers, and short range cones. This would follow the lore I outlined in my duskblade article, simultaneously increasing the survivability of bladesigners.
Lord Karsus
04-09-07, 10:34 AM LK - your probably right. The more I look at it the more I think it should be a class similar to the ripoff duskblade. Ill have to look that one over again to see how I think it should be modified to create a FR bladesinger.

-Never seen the Duskblade.

-Anyway, I was thinking that they should have an attack bonus progression like a fighter, and spell progression for the first 10 levels at every other level. The after 10th level, they get +1 Caster level every level.
dragonheart
04-09-07, 05:45 PM LK, I tried that and it didn't work. SO I tried skipping levels 5.10,& 15 and it works well. I used the cleric BAB progression and had to create my own Save progressions but I think I'm close. I also put in a spell progression. WHile the bladesinger has traditionally been seen as a wizard/fighter I've changed that over to a fighter/sorceror - except that I've never been happy with sorceror spells based off charisma so for the Bladesinger they are based off Intelligence.

Eytan, Your probably right that there should be an intelligence based boost to AC but I've left it as dexterity based for the moment. I don't really see the bladesinger as simply using some low level spells for defense so I've kept or added a number of dexterity based improvements. I've basically used feats for abilities to keep things simple in the first go round with this.

I did look at the elven netbook version but I'm not really happy withit either - especially since its a 15 level PrC - if yoru going to go that far why not jsut make it class as I've done below:
Blade Singer

Abilities:
Level BAB FS RS WS Special Spells Spell L.
1 +0 0 +2 +2 Bladesong style, Acrobatic +1 Level 1
2 +1 +1 +3 +3 Somatic Weaponry, -10% Spell Fail. +1 Level 1
3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Channel Spell 1/d, Weapon Focus () +1 Level 2
4 +3 +2 +4 +3 Quick Draw, Song of Celerity (2L) +1 Level 2
5 +3 +2 +4 +4 Evasion, Combat Reflexes ----------
6 +4 +3 +4 +4 Channel Spell 3/d +1 Level 3
7 +5 +3 +5 +5 Greater Spell Song +1 Level 3
8 +6 +4 +5 +5 Combat Expertise +1 Level 4
9 +6 +4 +6 +5 Song of Celerity (4L), Channel Spell 5/d +1 Level 4
10 +7 +5 +6 +6 Uncanny Dodge, Improved Initiative -----------
11 +8 +5 +6 +6 Weapon Finesse (includes LS) +1 Level 5
12 +9 +6 +7 +7 Arcane Strike +1 Level 5
13 +9 +6 +7 +7 Lightning Reflexes +1 Level 6
14 +10 +7 +8 +7 Song of Celerity (6L) +1 Level 6
15 +11 +7 +8 +8 Greater Weapon Focus () -----------
16 +12 +8 +8 +8 +1 Level 7
17 +12 +8 +9 +9 Maximize Spell +1 Level 7
18 +13 +9 +9 +9 +1 Level 8
19 +14 +9 +10 +9 Song of Celerity (8L) +1 Level 8
20 +15 +10 +10 +10 +1 Level 9

Blade Song Style: class level as dodge bonus to AC (up to Intel bonus with light or no armour and wielding sword one handed).
Somatic Weaponry: Your weapon motions include those required to cast your spells rather than using a free hand to do so.
Channel Spell #/d: place any spell castable by PC into sword as a move action. Spell affects next creature hit only. The Spell stays in the sword up to 8 hours. At 3rd level it is usable once per day, this increases to 3/d at 6th level, and 5/d at 9th level.
Song of Celerity: Yu are able to cast a spell of 2nd level or lower as a quickened spell without adding spell levels to it once per day. At 9th level the spell level castable increase to 4th level, then to, 6th at 14th level, and 8th at 19th level.
Greater Spell Song: Ignore spell failure for light armour.
Arcane Strike: as the feat in Complete Warrior – channel a spell into an attack (weapon or unarmed) and get an attack bonus equal to the spell level on all attacks that round and a damage bonus of 1d4* spell level on attacks that round.
Weapon Finesse: In a Bladesinger’s hands even long swords can be used with finesse.

Spell Progression:
Level Spell Level Spells Known/Level Spells/Day/Level
1 1 4/2 4/2
2 1 5/3 5/3
3 2 6/3/1 6/3/1
4 2 6/4/2 6/4/2
5
6 3 7/4/2/1 7/4/2/1
7 3 7/5/3/2 7/5/3/2
8 4 8/5/3/2/1 8/5/3/2/1
9 4 8/5/4/3/2 8/5/4/3/2
10
11 5 9/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/4/3/2/1
12 5 9/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/4/3/2
13 6 9/5/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/5/4/3/2/1
14 6 9/5/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/5/4/3/2
15
16 7 9/5/5/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/5/5/4/3/2/1
17 7 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2
18 8 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/1
19 8 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2
20 9 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/2 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/2

As you see I've limited the number of spells per day to represent the focus on combat as well as spellcraft. Skills would include Perform (dance), Tumble, Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft.

Its a powerful class I'll grant and should rightly have stat requirements to enter but as those were done away with long ago ...

Anyway - comments anyone?
Burningspear
04-09-07, 06:30 PM don't go making your own set of saving throws, i dislike that, it seems unbalanced imo, apart from that, not bad
dragonheart
04-10-07, 08:48 AM Actually if you compare the saves to those in the PH they are fairly balanced. THe bladesinger is a character similar to the ranger, druid, bard and monk in many ways in that it is a dex defense mixed warrior/caster(ki feats for the monk). All the main Classes end at 20th level with a +12 save in thier main area and a +6 in their weak areas for a total of +24 for their saves. the bard,cleric, druid and ranger end wiht 2 +12's and a +6 for a total of +30 while the monk ends with 3 +12 for a total of 36. THe blade singer fits in this group with a total of +30 but as its intended to be as well rounded as the monk while the others are more focused on one aspect of the dex, warrior, caster triad. They have a weak save in one area while the monk has 3 strong saves, so I gave the blade singer 3 save progressions that ended at the same point while not exceeding the total "save points" for the general group. I did consider simply giving it the same progression as the monk but felt that would be overbalancing. for the same reason I used the cleric BAB not the fighter with the following reasoning: the time needed to study and learn to cast magic takes away from the time for practicing with weapons resulting in a somwhat weaker combat capability. SImilarly I chose to make the caster side a sorceror not a wizard (even tho this does conflict somewhat with lore) as a wizard needs much time to study and learn and master spells while sorcerors find the link to the weave and their magic as a more inate thing (this also strikes me as fitting more with the "elven link to the web" ((and please don't get me started on the whole how does an interloper race like the elves end up with a souldeep link to the magic structure of the plane when the native species that evolved there don't" thing - that just hurts my brain something feirce)). FOr the same reason I limited their number of spells per day to less than that of sorcerors since they have less time to draw on that link and focus on their magic since they need time for martial practice and limbering exercises.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonheart 04-07-07, 11:44 PM	Looking through my books as I was building some NPCs I wanted a good bladesinger and realized that the class as written is a bit weak. At least in my opinion and given its great status lore wise as the class for the great elven protectors. Looking through my notes I discovered I had created my own version adn after updating it a bit I Present it here for comment - yes its a fairly strong Prestige class but then its supposed to be lore wise and at the same time it is significantly weaker in some ways that either a fighter or a wizard of comparable level. Blade Singer –Revised Requirements: Elven blood, BAB +4, Know: Arcana (6), Able to cast 2L spells, Balance 2, Concentration 4, perform (dance) 2, perform (sing) 2, Tumble 2, combat casting, combat expertise, dodge, weapon focus (long sword, rapier, elven thinblade) Abilities: Level BAB FS RS WS Special Spells 1 +1 0 +2 +2 Bladesong style, Somatic Weaponry +1 Level 2 +2 0 +3 +3 Channel Spell 1/d, -10 Spell Failure ---------- 3 +3 +1 +3 +3 Song Of Celerity (2L) +1 Level 4 +4 +1 +4 +4 Channel Spell 3/d, ----------- 5 +5 +1 +4 +4 Song of Celerity (3L) +1 Level 6 +6 +2 +5 +5 Greater Spell Song, Channel Spell 4/d --------- 7 +7 +2 +5 +5 Song of Celerity (4L) +1 Level 8 +8 +2 +6 +6 Channel Spell 5/d ----------- 9 +9 +3 +6 +6 Song of Celerity (5L) +1 Level 10 +10 +3 +7 +7 Arcane Strike ----------- Blade Song Style: class level as dodge bonus to AC (up to Intel bonus with light or no armour and wielding sword one handed). Somatic Weaponry: You are able to swing your weapon through the motions required to cast your spells rather than using a free hand to do so.. Channel Spell #/d: place any spell castable by PC into sword as a move action. Spell affects next creature hit only. The Spell stays in the sword up to 8 hours. At 2nd level it is usable once perday, this increases to 3/d at 4th level, 4/d at 6th level and 5/d at 8th level. Song of Celerity: Yu are able to cast a spell of 2nd level or lower as a quickened spell without adding spell levels to it once per day. At 5th level the spell level castable increase to 3rd level, then to 4th at 7th level and 5th at 9th level. Greater Spell Song: Ignore spell failure for light armour. Arcane Strike: as the feat in Complete Warrior – channel a spell into an attack (weapon or unarmed) and get an attack bonus equal to the spell level on all attacks that round and a damage bonus of 1d4* spell level on attacks that round. Any thoughts or comments?
serow_#R 04-08-07, 10:19 AM	Have you tried looking at the one in the Elven Netbook posted on these boards here?
Burningspear 04-08-07, 08:10 PM	I think game balance wise the Bab is to high, u might think of reducing it to cleric to hit, if i compare it to the DMG Eldritch knight, it only gains 1 bonusfeat and 9 caster levels in addition to +10 bab...i am not quite sure how heavy +10 bab and +5 caster levels + all those abilities would count though..
dragonheart 04-08-07, 08:55 PM	I didn't think about cleric progression for BAB - you may wellbe right that it is what should have been used, Ill take a look tomorrow and think that over. As for the abilities etc think about it this way: the Blade singer is supposed to be a true PRESTIGE class - the ultimate example of elven sword and spell mastery yet even doing the earliest possible progression (F4/W2) at 16th level your only the spellcasting equivalent of a level 7 wizard and melee wise your the equivalent of a 14th level figter WITH the progression as I have it - and your limited to light/no armour. Just for kicks I extended the class out to a 10 level epic progression since this Prc almost requires one lore wise. Assuming you used levels 17-20 for wizard levels and all of levels 21-30 for the progression you would still only match a 16th level wizard (8th level spells maximum) and be will behind a 30th level fighter combat wise those extra abilities are really notr that great a bonus. You could do almost as well simply by alternating fighter and wizard levels and using a few of the fighter feats to take things like Practised spellcaster, somatic weaponry and arcane strike as feats. in MNSHO a prestige class (especially one with the lore bhind it that this one does) should enable its characters to at the very least hold their own with the regular classes and probably offer something substantial in the way of extras to attract characters (before the lore is applied) otherwise why the heck did the first ones come into existence and how the heck did the class gain such prestige and lore? I could easily see adding practised spellcaster at level 4/5, and a metamagic feat at level 7/8 then possibly adding two applications of the archmage spell power ability and maybe even mastery of counter spelling (done by slicing the spell with the sword a limited number of times a day) to the epic progression. Maybe even adding one additional caster level at levels 6, 10, 16 and 20 to speed up the spell casting progression so that by 30th level they could cast 9th level spells and by 32nd level ( I would take 2 levels of archmage with teh mastery of energy and arcane blast, mastery of shaping or another level of spell penetration) they would have the ability to think about going into epic spells as well. Now that would truely be a PRESTIGE CLASS! Of course it would also probably be considerd way overbalanced sadly. but that would at least fit and explain how the FR lore about blade singers came to be.
Burningspear 04-08-07, 09:24 PM	games rules wise vs story wise, i never said it would be easy :tie:
Lord Karsus 04-08-07, 11:23 PM	-I've been mulling around the idea lately that Bladesinger might simply be better off an actual Class, and not a Prestige Class.
dragonheart 04-09-07, 08:34 AM	LK - your probably right. The more I look at it the more I think it should be a class similar to the ripoff duskblade. Ill have to look that one over again to see how I think it should be modified to create a FR bladesinger.
EytanBernstein 04-09-07, 09:12 AM	I think it would be simple enough to have two similar bladesingers, both using the duskblade model as a basic structure. The traditional bladesigners would be able to cast in light armor, gain AC bonuses from Int, and would have a variety of defensive trick style spells (invisibility, dimension door, mirror image, blur, displacement, blink, and other similar spells). The additional powers would be mostly similar (combat casting, minor spell-like abilities, quick-cast), but instead of casting touch spells through melee weapons, bladesigners would be able to cast their defensive spells in the same round as their melee attacks. (I'd probably give them an extra ability chain similar to the Arcane Strike feat). The duskblades are more brutal, favoring heavier armor (in place of Int bonuses to AC) and gain more offensive spells - touch spells, rays, weapon enhancers, and short range cones. This would follow the lore I outlined in my duskblade article, simultaneously increasing the survivability of bladesigners.
Lord Karsus 04-09-07, 10:34 AM	LK - your probably right. The more I look at it the more I think it should be a class similar to the ripoff duskblade. Ill have to look that one over again to see how I think it should be modified to create a FR bladesinger. -Never seen the Duskblade. -Anyway, I was thinking that they should have an attack bonus progression like a fighter, and spell progression for the first 10 levels at every other level. The after 10th level, they get +1 Caster level every level.
dragonheart 04-09-07, 05:45 PM	LK, I tried that and it didn't work. SO I tried skipping levels 5.10,& 15 and it works well. I used the cleric BAB progression and had to create my own Save progressions but I think I'm close. I also put in a spell progression. WHile the bladesinger has traditionally been seen as a wizard/fighter I've changed that over to a fighter/sorceror - except that I've never been happy with sorceror spells based off charisma so for the Bladesinger they are based off Intelligence. Eytan, Your probably right that there should be an intelligence based boost to AC but I've left it as dexterity based for the moment. I don't really see the bladesinger as simply using some low level spells for defense so I've kept or added a number of dexterity based improvements. I've basically used feats for abilities to keep things simple in the first go round with this. I did look at the elven netbook version but I'm not really happy withit either - especially since its a 15 level PrC - if yoru going to go that far why not jsut make it class as I've done below: Blade Singer Abilities: Level BAB FS RS WS Special Spells Spell L. 1 +0 0 +2 +2 Bladesong style, Acrobatic +1 Level 1 2 +1 +1 +3 +3 Somatic Weaponry, -10% Spell Fail. +1 Level 1 3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Channel Spell 1/d, Weapon Focus () +1 Level 2 4 +3 +2 +4 +3 Quick Draw, Song of Celerity (2L) +1 Level 2 5 +3 +2 +4 +4 Evasion, Combat Reflexes ---------- 6 +4 +3 +4 +4 Channel Spell 3/d +1 Level 3 7 +5 +3 +5 +5 Greater Spell Song +1 Level 3 8 +6 +4 +5 +5 Combat Expertise +1 Level 4 9 +6 +4 +6 +5 Song of Celerity (4L), Channel Spell 5/d +1 Level 4 10 +7 +5 +6 +6 Uncanny Dodge, Improved Initiative ----------- 11 +8 +5 +6 +6 Weapon Finesse (includes LS) +1 Level 5 12 +9 +6 +7 +7 Arcane Strike +1 Level 5 13 +9 +6 +7 +7 Lightning Reflexes +1 Level 6 14 +10 +7 +8 +7 Song of Celerity (6L) +1 Level 6 15 +11 +7 +8 +8 Greater Weapon Focus () ----------- 16 +12 +8 +8 +8 +1 Level 7 17 +12 +8 +9 +9 Maximize Spell +1 Level 7 18 +13 +9 +9 +9 +1 Level 8 19 +14 +9 +10 +9 Song of Celerity (8L) +1 Level 8 20 +15 +10 +10 +10 +1 Level 9 Blade Song Style: class level as dodge bonus to AC (up to Intel bonus with light or no armour and wielding sword one handed). Somatic Weaponry: Your weapon motions include those required to cast your spells rather than using a free hand to do so. Channel Spell #/d: place any spell castable by PC into sword as a move action. Spell affects next creature hit only. The Spell stays in the sword up to 8 hours. At 3rd level it is usable once per day, this increases to 3/d at 6th level, and 5/d at 9th level. Song of Celerity: Yu are able to cast a spell of 2nd level or lower as a quickened spell without adding spell levels to it once per day. At 9th level the spell level castable increase to 4th level, then to, 6th at 14th level, and 8th at 19th level. Greater Spell Song: Ignore spell failure for light armour. Arcane Strike: as the feat in Complete Warrior – channel a spell into an attack (weapon or unarmed) and get an attack bonus equal to the spell level on all attacks that round and a damage bonus of 1d4* spell level on attacks that round. Weapon Finesse: In a Bladesinger’s hands even long swords can be used with finesse. Spell Progression: Level Spell Level Spells Known/Level Spells/Day/Level 1 1 4/2 4/2 2 1 5/3 5/3 3 2 6/3/1 6/3/1 4 2 6/4/2 6/4/2 5 6 3 7/4/2/1 7/4/2/1 7 3 7/5/3/2 7/5/3/2 8 4 8/5/3/2/1 8/5/3/2/1 9 4 8/5/4/3/2 8/5/4/3/2 10 11 5 9/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/4/3/2/1 12 5 9/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/4/3/2 13 6 9/5/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/5/4/3/2/1 14 6 9/5/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/5/4/3/2 15 16 7 9/5/5/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/5/5/4/3/2/1 17 7 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2 18 8 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/1 9/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/1 19 8 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2 20 9 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/2 9/5/5/5/5/5/4/3/2/2 As you see I've limited the number of spells per day to represent the focus on combat as well as spellcraft. Skills would include Perform (dance), Tumble, Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft. Its a powerful class I'll grant and should rightly have stat requirements to enter but as those were done away with long ago ... Anyway - comments anyone?
Burningspear 04-09-07, 06:30 PM	don't go making your own set of saving throws, i dislike that, it seems unbalanced imo, apart from that, not bad
dragonheart 04-10-07, 08:48 AM	Actually if you compare the saves to those in the PH they are fairly balanced. THe bladesinger is a character similar to the ranger, druid, bard and monk in many ways in that it is a dex defense mixed warrior/caster(ki feats for the monk). All the main Classes end at 20th level with a +12 save in thier main area and a +6 in their weak areas for a total of +24 for their saves. the bard,cleric, druid and ranger end wiht 2 +12's and a +6 for a total of +30 while the monk ends with 3 +12 for a total of 36. THe blade singer fits in this group with a total of +30 but as its intended to be as well rounded as the monk while the others are more focused on one aspect of the dex, warrior, caster triad. They have a weak save in one area while the monk has 3 strong saves, so I gave the blade singer 3 save progressions that ended at the same point while not exceeding the total "save points" for the general group. I did consider simply giving it the same progression as the monk but felt that would be overbalancing. for the same reason I used the cleric BAB not the fighter with the following reasoning: the time needed to study and learn to cast magic takes away from the time for practicing with weapons resulting in a somwhat weaker combat capability. SImilarly I chose to make the caster side a sorceror not a wizard (even tho this does conflict somewhat with lore) as a wizard needs much time to study and learn and master spells while sorcerors find the link to the weave and their magic as a more inate thing (this also strikes me as fitting more with the "elven link to the web" ((and please don't get me started on the whole how does an interloper race like the elves end up with a souldeep link to the magic structure of the plane when the native species that evolved there don't" thing - that just hurts my brain something feirce)). FOr the same reason I limited their number of spells per day to less than that of sorcerors since they have less time to draw on that link and focus on their magic since they need time for martial practice and limbering exercises.