Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tyshanis 05-29-07, 02:32 PM	I have been finally asked asked to make a character instead of dming, I want to creat a bladesinger (when it becomes available to me), But which one should i use the Realms version or the Non-realms version?
GothicDan 05-29-07, 02:38 PM	Technically, the Realms version in RoF is the one that's 'canon' for the Realms (if anything could be said about mechanics). I prefer the Complete Warrior version and feel it's slightly truer to the original one presented in 2E's Complete Book of Elves, myself.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 05-29-07, 03:03 PM	Dont know anything about the races of Fr version, but the Complete warior version is on the weak side from a co perspectave. Fighter 1, Wizard 5, Ek 1, Spellsword 1, Abjurant champion 5, and finish off with more eldrich knight, gives similar bab, better casting, and requires fewer feats. with the right enchantments can cast in anything up to fullplate with 0 spell falure.
Grandmaster_Kane 05-29-07, 03:32 PM	it is weak from every perscpective but it does provide some interesting flavour at higher levels
Lord Zeb 05-29-07, 10:05 PM	Check out the PHB II Duskblade core class. Rename it Bladesinger and go from there.
MerrikCale 05-29-07, 10:18 PM	it is weak from every perscpective but it does provide some interesting flavour at higher levels the strength of the bladesinger has always been its flavor and role-play potential
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 12:31 AM	-Use of the Elves of Faerūn alternative. -I actually was thinking about sitting down and fiddling with it, to turn the PrC into a base class. I have too much on my plate right now, though.
Steelwind 05-30-07, 04:11 AM	I have been finally asked asked to make a character instead of dming, I want to creat a bladesinger (when it becomes available to me), But which one should i use the Realms version or the Non-realms version? Neither, you want to play a great Bladesinger then play 2E. ;)
Diffan 05-30-07, 04:54 PM	Go with the version on the Elven Netbook found on the message boards. It's the best one of them all and with a full spell and BAB progression you can't go wrong. Any PrC that requires you to get a whole new spell list, and/or take out 5 spell casting levels just isn't worth it.
GothicDan 05-30-07, 05:05 PM	Dont know anything about the races of Fr version, but the Complete warior version is on the weak side from a co perspectave. Fighter 1, Wizard 5, Ek 1, Spellsword 1, Abjurant champion 5, and finish off with more eldrich knight, gives similar bab, better casting, and requires fewer feats. with the right enchantments can cast in anything up to fullplate with 0 spell falure. But then you're not a Bladesinger. If you take a PrC, you should want to belong to all of the attendant social and culture standards that go along with it. That being said... I'd totally punch any player that tried to do the above. Just the fact that you're mixing Ek and Spellsword, which are identical lore-wise, means that there's no possible chance that you could really roleplay the level dipping out. And there's also the fact that in campaign settings with established cultures and history, training available for prestige classes wouldn't be found commonly throughout the world. Outside of Elves, it's exceptionally rare to find competant Arcane casters/Fighter-types, because the Elves have been perfecting the art for millennia, and have lived in relatively unbroken culture in Evermeet, allowing the arts to be passed down in whole and added to and improved.
Stigger 05-30-07, 05:30 PM	Somehow, I think if he's looking at the min-max route he seems to be, I don't think the RP reasonings as to why its not feasible are going to matter much... the approach is not inherently right or wrong, just one of many different styles of playing the game.
GothicDan 05-30-07, 05:46 PM	This sort of goes beyond standard "RP reasons," though. The Ek and the Spellsword are about as dissimilar to each other as a Necromancer is from an Illusionist. It would be almost like being able to take levels in Wizard (Necro) and Wizard (Illu) at the same time. They're almost the exact same thing, with a little twist.
Diffan 05-30-07, 09:06 PM	Yea, I don't understand the reason someone would go EK then Spellsword? Just for the channeling ability and 5% off Spell Failure? Just take the Smiting Spell feat and Armored Mage level substitution at 1st level fighter and there ya go!
Dark Wizard 05-30-07, 10:07 PM	A lot depends on the cultures present in the game. With their rather minimal flavor removed, EK and Spellsword could be viewed as natural progression of the same fighter-mage ideal. After you take Spellsword or EK, it really doesn't feel right to go back to alternating between fighter and wizard. You spent all that hard work weaving the two disciplines together, then you abruptly return to continuing them in the haphazard, water-and-oil swirl method you started your career with rather than a homogenous path. Then again, I think a major shortcoming of 3e is the inability to create a competent fighter-mage (or the like) without a PrC (EK being amongst the most basic of "fixes"). In a game with lots of culture and history tied to a PrC (as it should be), then we're stretching the multiclassing concept. One of the things I like about Rokugan/L5R d20 is that you should only take one PrC, ever. To do so would be insulting the organization of your original PrC ("What are we, not good enough to warrant your full attention?") They actually made their PrCs worthwhile to take all the way to the end. They enveloped, interwined, suffused them with history and significance (when you become a Kakita Kenshinzen or a Mirumoto Niten Swordmaster, you know full well there are over a thousand years of history within each of the moves you make). You know, making them prestigious and all that good stuff. This doesn't even begin to chip the iceberg of my complaints against the term Prestige Class. Some of them are just Advanced Classes, few are actually prestigious. Prestigious is partly why the (2e) Bladesinger has remained in the collective imagination of many gamers for so long.
Penknight 05-30-07, 10:24 PM	Neither, you want to play a great Bladesinger then play 2E. ;)Yeah, no sh... um, heh, no kidding. ;) I prefer the Complete Warrior version and feel it's slightly truer to the original one presented in 2E's Complete Book of Elves, myself.As do I. It remains my personal favorite as far as the "official" bladesinger is concerned.
MerrikCale 05-30-07, 10:55 PM	-I actually was thinking about sitting down and fiddling with it, hey now
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 12:23 AM	-My girlfriend went to Cape May for the week. But, that's neither here nor there...
GothicDan 05-31-07, 12:16 PM	LK, stop sinning. Dark Wizard, I still want to platonically marry you. But me and Old Sage are already together. Perhaps I can discuss a platonic intellectual affair with your brain and gamestyle. Rokugan sounds better and better to me. I so want to play a Lion or Phoenix or Dragon Clan something or other. A Mounted Lion type would be awesome.
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 02:16 PM	LK, stop sinning. -I was just making conversation that my girlfriend is vacationing in Cape May. Get your mind out of the gutter. Dark Wizard, I still want to platonically marry you. But me and Old Sage are already together. Perhaps I can discuss a platonic intellectual affair with your brain and gamestyle. -Have a psychic affair, like Emma and Scott. -And, a warrior type mounted on a lion does sound cool. I might have to find a way to use that idea.
GothicDan 05-31-07, 05:07 PM	Random note: I've been to Cape May a few times. Love the zoo there. One of my fraternity brothers lives there, too. Also: my mind's always in the gutter. You mentioning psychic affairs and Scott, for instance? Mmmm... Also: Scott drawn in Endsong? I'm going to go read that again.. Oh yeah...
MerrikCale 05-31-07, 06:55 PM	Random note: I've been to Cape May a few times. Love the zoo there. One of my fraternity brothers lives there, too. you ever been to the Bronx Zoo?
Green Elven Vampire 05-31-07, 07:06 PM	-Use of the Elves of Faerūn alternative. -I actually was thinking about sitting down and fiddling with it, to turn the PrC into a base class. I have too much on my plate right now, though. Elves of Faerun? When did this book come out?
Green Elven Vampire 05-31-07, 07:10 PM	Try this version... The Bladesinger Bladesingers are elves who have blended art, sword-play, and arcane magic into a harmonious whole. In battle, a bladesinger's lithe movements and subtle tactics seem beautiful, and belie their deadly martial efficiency. Multiclassed fighter/wizards can become bladesingers most easily, though any elf who can wield a martial weapon and can cast arcane spells can become a bladesinger. Bladesinging ranger/wizards, rogue/wizards and sorcerer/rogues, sorcerer/rangers and bladesinger bards are not unknown. Bladesingers are known to be in the divine services of Corellon, Sehanine, Hanali, Erevan, Anggaradth(sp), Rillifane and very rarely Deep Sashelas. Bladesingers command great respect in most elf communities and NPC bladesingers usually serve as itinerant guardians and champions of the elf community at large. Hit Die: d8. Requirements: To qualify to become a Bladesinger, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Race: Character must be a Elf or Half Elf. Base Attack: +5 Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Perform (dance), (sing): 3 ranks each, Tumble 3 ranks. Feats: Combat casting, Dodge, Expertise, Still spell, Weapon focus (longsword/Rapier). Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1'st level arcane spells. Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Tumble (Dex), concetration (Con), Perform (Cha), jump (Str), Knowledge (any)(Int). Skill points at each level: 2 + Int Modifier. Class Features: Weapon & Armor Proficiency. Bladesingers gain proficiency with small or light weapons. Spells per day: A Bladesingers training focuses on magic as much as sword-play. Thus, when a character gains a new Even level of Bladesinger, she gains new spells per day as if she aso gained a level in whatever spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not however gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. Bladesong Style: At 1'st level when weilding a longsword in one hand (and nothing in the other), the bladesinger begins to dance in a hauntingly graceful style of combat. While spinning, and arching her blades at impossible angles, with stunning speed and agility, she gains a dodge bonus to AC equal to his Int. Modifier. Bonus Feat: At 2'nd, 6'th, and 10'th level, the bladesinger gains a bonus feat. This must be a metamagic feat, or a feat from the following list: Chain Spell, Mobility, Quick draw, spring attack, Whirlwind attack, Two-weapon fighting, and Chink in the Armor. Duel Bladesong Style: At 1'st level, when using a longsword in one hand, and a smaller weapon in the off hand, the bladesinger begins a beautiful, ancient dance, while whirrling, and twirling her duel blades in a graceful, yet deadly style of bladesong. She gains a +2 Melee and damage bonus, OR she can use the +2 bonus to add to her AC, and Saving Throws while fighting in this style. NOTE: You cannot use both bladesong style, and duel bladesong style at the same time during a round. Lesser Spellsong: At 3rd level When wielding a longsword in one hand (and nothing in the other), the bladesinger can take 10 when making a Concentration check to cast defensively. Combat song: At 3'rd level the bladesinger can sing a powerful song during combat gaining a +1 bonus to Initiative rolls. This inceases by +2 at 9'th level. Graceful Disarm: At 4'th level the bladesinger who succeeds in disarming an opponent and has a free hand, can grab the weapon herself instead of letting it fall to the ground. If you can weild that weapon in one hand, you can immediately make a single attack with it, though you suffer the usual penalty for a second attack with an off hand weapon. Song of Celerity: At 5th level When wielding a longsword in one hand (and nothing in the other) and using the full attack action, the bladesinger can cast one spell each round as a free action. Greater Spellsong: At 6th level The bladesinger ignores arcane spell failure when wearing light armor. Song of Fury: At 7th level When wielding a longsword in one hand (and nothing in the other) and using the full attack action, the bladesinger can make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack, but this attack and each other attack made that round suffer a -2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it affects attacks of opportunity the bladesinger might make before his next action. Blood Dance: At 9'th level the bladesinger who has been injured sevearly and is within 20 hitpoints of death, or 10 hitpoints of 0, can sing a death song to the Seldarine and is granted the ability to Rage (as per the barbarian ability) for as many rounds as you have bladesinger levels, plus your Con. Modifier. CL-BAB-FS-RS-WS-Special- Spells per day 1'st-+1-+0-+2-+2-bladesong, duel bladesong style. 2'nd-+2-+0-+3-+3-bonus feat-+1level 3'rd-+3-+1-+3-+3- Combat song- lesser spellsong 4'th-+4-+1-+4-+4-+1level- graceful disarm 5'th-+5-+1-+4-+4- song of celerity 6'th-+6-+2-+5-+5-bonus feat- greater spellsong-+1level 7'th-+7-+2-+5-+5- song of fury 8'th-+8-+2-+6-+6-+1level 9'th-+9-+3-+6-+6- blood dance 10'th-+10-+3-+7-+7-bonus feat-+1level
GothicDan 05-31-07, 07:13 PM	You ever been to the Bronx Zoo? No... In fact, I've only been to NY for a few hours, for a doctor's appointment. The Cape May one is free, and allows you to get dangerously close to the animals. I should have pet the cheetah when I had the chance. :(
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 08:18 PM	you ever been to the Bronx Zoo? -Too expensive, and I think the Bronx Zoo is overrated. I went there over the summer with my cousins- long story. But, it was definitley not as "magical" as my childhood memories made me believe. Elves of Faerun? When did this book come out? -GEV, how many times do I need to explain this to you? This is the third time that I can remember! :P No... In fact, I've only been to NY for a few hours, for a doctor's appointment. -You bum. You should come over, and pick up Merrik on your way. I'll give Markus a call, and we'll all play D&D. :) I should have pet the cheetah when I had the chance. :( -Ouch. You'll never get a chance like that again, I'll bet. Though, when I went to Myrtle Beach once, I got to hold a tiger cub. It was quite warm, and very heavy, surprisingly. He was a nice little guy. So, who knows?
GothicDan 05-31-07, 08:52 PM	-You bum. You should come over, and pick up Merrik on your way. I'll give Markus a call, and we'll all play D&D. Me and you will play Sun Elves and Markus will play a Drow! I don't know about Merrik. I also have a fraternity brother that lives in NY (well, probably a lot more than one; just one from my Chapter). He's a roleplayer, too. -Ouch. You'll never get a chance like that again, I'll bet. Though, when I went to Myrtle Beach once, I got to hold a tiger cub. It was quite warm, and very heavy, surprisingly. He was a nice little guy. So, who knows? Oddly enough, if I ever get rich or just have a good amount of money to spend, one of my major goals is to contribute to a Big Cat preserve and/or a Wolf reserve. I love wolves and big cats like woah.
Penknight 05-31-07, 09:03 PM	-GEV, how many times do I need to explain this to you? This is the third time that I can remember! :PWell my friend, maybe you should put a reminder in your sig. That way everyone knows. ;)
MerrikCale 05-31-07, 10:07 PM	-Too expensive, and I think the Bronx Zoo is overrated. I went there over the summer with my cousins- long story. But, it was definitley not as "magical" as my childhood memories made me believe. I should have you flogged.
Dark Wizard 05-31-07, 10:17 PM	Dark Wizard, I still want to platonically marry you. But me and Old Sage are already together. Perhaps I can discuss a platonic intellectual affair with your brain and gamestyle. Quite touching. Know that there is plenty of me to go around. Rokugan sounds better and better to me. I so want to play a Lion or Phoenix or Dragon Clan something or other. A Mounted Lion type would be awesome. It's fun with the right group. Coincidentally, those are the same clans I like. I played a Dragon swordmaster once, the strong stoic warrior monk type of few words but quick with his blades and sharp with his lines when need be. Meanwhile another player was a Crane duelist (with some Scorpion clan heritage), who was his betrothed. The awkwardness was lovely, she's the courtly duelist with the classic beauty of the Crane (emperors married Crane maidens on a fairly consistent basis) and the voluptuousness and sensuality of the Scorpion, who didn't really find the idea of marrying my character too appealing. My character really couldn't careless, more into spiritual and philosophical ponderings at the edge of a sword, which bothered her somewhat since she's used to at least some attention from most things with a Y chromosome. We were of two clans with a millennium of swordsmanship rivalry and that situation played out between us despite the emerging respect due to common ground. "One man, one sword, one strike." "Two hands." My Lion samurai was virtually in permanent self-exile to remove himself from politics and burdening ties in order to go on a warrior pilgrimage to put his skill and his clan's martial tradition to practice in respect to his ancestors and mentors; to show the empire that while Crane and Dragon swordsmanship were the feuding princes of blade work, a great general of impressive skill was in their midst. As for my Phoenix character, he was a master of fire magics, paid for with the price of numerous burn scars; with a temperament and personality as irascible as the elements at his wrathful command - too useful to kill and too dangerous to try. One who was amused by the imperial establishment and scoffed at the more useless of the empire's traditions because his predates theirs. Yes, Rokugan can be quite fun indeed. Have a psychic affair, like Emma and Scott. Works for me because it will lead to a kinky physical relationship where one uses their powers to become invincible while the other blasts them with their optic beams in order to view them in their full buck-nekkid glory. I'd be into that. I must return to reading Annihilation now. Can't wait for Nova #2.
GothicDan 05-31-07, 10:28 PM	Quite touching. Know that there is plenty of me to go around. Oh my. It's fun with the right group. Coincidentally, those are the same clans I like. I played a Dragon swordmaster once, the strong stoic warrior monk type of few words but quick with his blades and sharp with his lines when need be. Meanwhile another player was a Crane duelist (with some Scorpion clan heritage), who was his betrothed. The awkwardness was lovely, she's the courtly duelist with the classic beauty of the Crane (emperors married Crane maidens on a fairly consistent basis) and the voluptuousness and sensuality of the Scorpion, who didn't really find the idea of marrying my character too appealing. My character really couldn't careless, more into spiritual and philosophical ponderings at the edge of a sword, which bothered her somewhat since she's used to at least some attention from most things with a Y chromosome. We were of two clans with a millennium of swordsmanship rivalry and that situation played out between us despite the emerging respect due to common ground. "One man, one sword, one strike." "Two hands." People seem to forget how fun romantic interest can be to roleplay. My Lion samurai was virtually in permanent self-exile to remove himself from politics and burdening ties in order to go on a warrior pilgrimage to put his skill and his clan's martial tradition to practice in respect to his ancestors and mentors; to show the empire that while Crane and Dragon swordsmanship were the feuding princes of blade work, a great general of impressive skill was in their midst. Isn't that the Lions' primary claim to fame - tactics and organization and such? As for my Phoenix character, he was a master of fire magics, paid for with the price of numerous burn scars; with a temperament and personality as irascible as the elements at his wrathful command - too useful to kill and too dangerous to try. One who was amused by the imperial establishment and scoffed at the more useless of the empire's traditions because his predates theirs. Sounds similar in some respect to the Fire Genasi Fire Mage I played back in the old days. :) Yes, Rokugan can be quite fun indeed. I can tell. My last ex really enjoyed it, as well as the card game. Works for me because it will lead to a kinky physical relationship where one uses their powers to become invincible while the other blasts them with their optic beams in order to view them in their full buck-nekkid glory. I'd be into that. Love. Endsong.
MerrikCale 05-31-07, 10:55 PM	this thread has taken a strange turn.
GothicDan 05-31-07, 11:01 PM	But it's a good turn.
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 11:43 PM	Me and you will play Sun Elves and Markus will play a Drow! I don't know about Merrik. I also have a fraternity brother that lives in NY (well, probably a lot more than one; just one from my Chapter). He's a roleplayer, too. -Sounds good to me! :) Well my friend, maybe you should put a reminder in your sig. That way everyone knows. ;) -Ironically, it already is! ;) I should have you flogged. -Why? There is nothing that I said that is false. this thread has taken a strange turn. But it's a good turn. -What thread that everyone has been involved in hasn't taken a strange turn?
MerrikCale 06-01-07, 10:20 PM	- -Why? There is nothing that I said that is false. Have you seen my profile?
MerrikCale 06-01-07, 10:24 PM	Me and you will play Sun Elves and Markus will play a Drow! I don't know about Merrik. just make me a ranger or a rogue. Or maybe an Air Genasi Scout
GothicDan 06-01-07, 10:27 PM	I approve of Genasi.
Penknight 06-01-07, 11:24 PM	-Ironically, it already is! ;)Heh, oops!! :D
Tyshanis 06-02-07, 07:07 PM	Wow what a huge turn this post has taken even for this forum.:) Any way Why do i want to take 5 classes over 2. I want A bladesinger not an uber slasher. The bladesinger is role play through combat. the elgant side of the sword. No, straight fighter mage with blade singer prc when available. So what your saying is the non realms version is closer to the 2nd edition version than the Rof version but Rof is cannon, so I have to go Rof? And thank you GEV for your awsome post but not what I'm looking for. Two weapons is not a blasdesinger its Drizzt and thought I like the character I hate what he's done to the FR universe. And as i love the elven netbook bladesinger my dm strickly runs on published material (elbow, elbow, wink wink) and wont allow it even if he loves it. God makes wanna play a 2-d human fighter.
Lord Karsus 06-02-07, 08:02 PM	Have you seen my profile? -Oh. Uh...The Prospect Park Zoo is also overrated... And as i love the elven netbook bladesinger my dm strickly runs on published material (elbow, elbow, wink wink) and wont allow it even if he loves it. -Tell your DM that he/she can go to hess! :P -Why won't he allow it, though? I mean, it's not like we made it, "L0l, SuprblAdeSingrzz!!11!". We stayed truer to the canon than the actual, official PrC did! Heh, oops!! :D -Some people just need to open their eyes! :P
MerrikCale 06-02-07, 09:38 PM	-Oh. Uh...The Prospect Park Zoo is also overrated... You're on a fantasy gaming discussion board, you're criticizing a zoo, what were the chances you were talking directly to someone who has volunteered there for 17 years?
Lord Karsus 06-02-07, 11:26 PM	-Not in my favor, apparently. ;)
MerrikCale 06-03-07, 12:08 AM	I approve of Genasi. How about a Goliath Favored Soul or a Whisper Gnome Warmage?
Diffan 06-03-07, 04:22 AM	*sigh* When will we get past 2.E??????!!! I thought the Elven Netbook version was the best and still think so. If you want to make a bladesinger, then go ahead and use one from the Races of Faerun or Complete Warrior but at least know that it's not going to be a great build. I know some people use the these version for strictly role playing stand-point, but honestly don't expect a lot from your Character (game play wise). If anything, you would do better to make up your own PrC and maybe have your DM approve it? I know it's a long shot, but it's worth a try!
Tyshanis 06-04-07, 09:17 PM	i was gonna gonna compinsate with feats and when my dm found out how long a single combat would take me he aloowed the ENB version so....i win and you guys rock
Lord Karsus 06-04-07, 11:13 PM	-Excellent...:emp:
Alediran 06-05-07, 10:36 AM	I can play with Alediran then, he is lvl 8 at this moment.
C.R.A.F.T. 06-27-07, 07:26 PM	Neither, you want to play a great Bladesinger then play 2E. ;) You have my vote!!!
Siridar 06-28-07, 09:00 AM	I enjoyed playing Rokugan also I was a Unicorn Samurai/Kishi Charger. It was cool course only problem I had was DM wouldn't let me tell the Diamyo how our leader royally screwed up in the name of honor.