Calculating phaerimm CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Calculating phaerimm CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jhiroth
06-08-07, 09:46 PM Revered Elder Phaerimm with other class levels would be CR21 + (# of class levels) or am I mistaken?

Ex. Revered Elder phaerimm Wiz25 would be CR46? Any help is appreciated!
Dielzen
06-09-07, 08:55 AM Mostly correct. The information you're looking for is in the Monster Manual:

Associated Class Levels

Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1.
Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability.
Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage.
A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability.

Nonassociated Class Levels

If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated, and things get a little more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1.
Levels in NPC classes are always treated as nonassociated.
Dielzen
06-09-07, 09:01 AM So a 19hd Phaerimm gaining 26 non-associated class levels would equal a bump of 16 CR, or 37 CR.
Jhiroth
06-09-07, 06:19 PM I would say arcane casting class levels "increase a monster’s existing strengths" in a phaerimm's case, no?
The Simbul
06-10-07, 12:23 PM If a Phaerimm took levels in the sorcerer class, or a prestige class which increased it's effective level of sorcerer spellcasting ability, then it would be an associated class. Taking levels in wizard is not.
Dielzen
06-10-07, 01:17 PM A Phaerimm Wiz26 would be better off taking Wiz16 and Ultimate Magus 10 (I think it's a 10-level, anyway) -- and those 10 levels would be associated, even if they didn't add to Sorc level (for simplicity, tho it's not unreasonable to do it level-by-level and make any that don't grant a bump to Sorc non-associated)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jhiroth 06-08-07, 09:46 PM	Revered Elder Phaerimm with other class levels would be CR21 + (# of class levels) or am I mistaken? Ex. Revered Elder phaerimm Wiz25 would be CR46? Any help is appreciated!
Dielzen 06-09-07, 08:55 AM	Mostly correct. The information you're looking for is in the Monster Manual: Associated Class Levels Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1. Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability. Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage. A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability. Nonassociated Class Levels If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated, and things get a little more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1. Levels in NPC classes are always treated as nonassociated.
Dielzen 06-09-07, 09:01 AM	So a 19hd Phaerimm gaining 26 non-associated class levels would equal a bump of 16 CR, or 37 CR.
Jhiroth 06-09-07, 06:19 PM	I would say arcane casting class levels "increase a monster’s existing strengths" in a phaerimm's case, no?
The Simbul 06-10-07, 12:23 PM	If a Phaerimm took levels in the sorcerer class, or a prestige class which increased it's effective level of sorcerer spellcasting ability, then it would be an associated class. Taking levels in wizard is not.
Dielzen 06-10-07, 01:17 PM	A Phaerimm Wiz26 would be better off taking Wiz16 and Ultimate Magus 10 (I think it's a 10-level, anyway) -- and those 10 levels would be associated, even if they didn't add to Sorc level (for simplicity, tho it's not unreasonable to do it level-by-level and make any that don't grant a bump to Sorc non-associated)