Can Non-Humans Be Red Wizards? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can Non-Humans Be Red Wizards? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nevercme
07-21-07, 04:13 PM I realize that the Red Wizard Prestige Class requires that you be Human, but what about just obtaining the title. What I mean is could a Tiefling (Aasimar, Half-Elf, Elf, Genasti) Wizard (or Sorcerer Considering it says that it is possible) be a Red Wizard without taking Levels in the Class? Thanks in advance.
Andyr
07-21-07, 07:53 PM I don't think a non-human would be accepted as a Red Wizards by other Red Wizards. The one exception might be if they were a genasi, tiefling, half-fiend or the like with their human component of the appropriate ethnic group.

You mention Sorcerors--I think the Red Wizards also disallow Sorcerors from joining their order because they don't see it as being 'proper' magic.
Zevox
07-21-07, 09:02 PM Well, to start with, all Red Wizards are drawn from Thay's Noble population, so Elves or other non-humans don't even have a chance to begin with. Half-Elves are almost certainly never going to happen either, for the reason that no Thayan Noble is anywhere near likely to mate with an Elf - Thayans, and especially the Red Wizards, are some seriously xenophobic bastards (most of the non-humans in Thay are either slaves or mere warriors in their armies). Genasi, Tieflings, and other Planetouched, might be permitted, if they were lucky enough to get a more lenient superior. Unapproachable East says on page 158 that "Tieflings and other planetouched creatures can be found [in Thay] as well, although these rare folk are judged more by their human anscestry than their physical appearance." So Planetouched aren't treated as badly as other non-Humans in Thay, which means if they could be accepted, presuming their human blood comes from a noble Thayan root.

As for Sorcerers, according to the FRCS, since they don't follow the sort of regimented systems set out in Thayan magic schools, they're seen as freaks and misfits, and those that don't suppress their talents and focus on Wizardry instead often flee the country. They're there, but they're a tiny, tiny minority.

Zevox
runestar
07-22-07, 01:29 AM You first need the tattoo focus feat, which only humans and planetouched can take. The Zulkir of Conjuration is rumoured to be a tiefling (though his stats put him as a human), so I guess it might be possible with the correct rp (ie: you somehow manage to pass yourself off as a human and get a red wizard to tutor you).:)
Steropes
07-22-07, 08:08 AM --all Red Wizards are drawn from Thay's Noble population--

It is in other way: if you can cast spells and you are Thayan you will be taken from you parents and send to training. If you surive the training and become Red Wizard you become Thayan Noble. It reminds Platos idea of philosophy rulers: it is not plutocracy, but aristocrasy: the best rule.(or if the best are all mages:magocracy)
So in sqeezed up form:it doesn't mather are you child of wizards or from middle class, as long as you are wizard.
Red_Wizard
07-22-07, 09:40 AM For a human, you must be Mulani in order to be legitimatly trained. Some of the lesser Rashemi make the cut, but this is only when extreme talent is displayed, the child is born of a fling and thus taken under one parents wing, or it is done in secret, with the youths heritage being hidden until they possess the sufficient power to stave off the resulting uprising against them.

Planetouched are equally common, as it is often Mulani Wizard/ Fiendish breeding that results in their creation. Ofter this spawns creatures far more arrogant than the straight Mulan, as they then see themselves as the superior race.

Aaisimar are extremly unlikely, and without a very good storyline, most likely non existent. Genasi make a guest appearance somewhere in the middle of these two, with fire genasi leading the way -- most likely as firelords for the god kossuth-- and Air trailing much nearer an Aaisimar for unlikelyhood.

Lastly sorcerers are treated much as Rashemi are. There is no respect given to their wild talents, and little benifet they can hope to draw from entering into the RW prestige class. The answer to being a Red Wizard without the class is no.

A Mage does not enter the presdigious ranks of the Red Wizard until they complete training, and are gifted the red robes. This generally takes place around level 5 out of game, and gaining the red robes is taking the first level in the prestige class.

Until a level is taken, they are only Wizards, and thus are still held accountable to donning the colour if they have not been initiated. Wearing of Red in Thay is punishable by death, regardless of station, race, or gender.
Nevercme
07-22-07, 09:43 PM Wow Thank you All. Tatoo Focus Only requires that you be from Thay. I kind of Figured Elves couldn't become Red Wizards, but considering their Prowess in the Art I thought that there may be an exception :allalone: . It does say that Sorcerers and Bards are possible, but would be looked-down upon. They could hide their variation of the Art (i.e. spending a lot of book reading time, pretending to prepare spells, and hiding their instruments.) :incog: Also it mentions the skills Scry, Innuedo, and Intuit Direction (yes I realize that is a Hathran skill). Could any one provide a link to a page explaing these. Already searched my book and found nothing. Thanks again. :)
KnightErrantJR
07-22-07, 11:38 PM The skills you are mentioning are 3rd edition skills, as opposed to the updated 3.5 skills. The 3.5 version of the Red Wizard prestige class are in the Dungeon Master's Guide (3.5).

There are arcane casters, even wizards, in Thay that aren't Red Wizards. Richard Lee Byers' novel Unclean features a wizard that is part of Thay's military but isn't a Red Wizard, mainly because he isn't ruthless enough and is of Rashemi descent.

As has been said, Red Wizards are paranoid, insular lot. For the most part they view Mulan humans as the pinnacle humankind. Even the Rashemi that get indoctrinated into the ranks aren't treated very well (though they get a lot more perks that the average Rashemi in the nation would).
runestar
07-23-07, 12:07 AM IMO, the human restriction is more of a rp limitation than a mechanical one (in theory, there is nothing stopping a drow from taking up the red wizard prc if only he could find a willing tutor). Contrast this with more "physical" limitations, such as the large prereq for war-hulk. A medium-sized human wouldn't be able to take said prc regardless of good a tutelage he obtained.
Red_Wizard
07-23-07, 09:01 AM You aren't taught the PrC though. Thus you can not simply find a willing tutor, and then "BE" a Red Wizard.

You are trained as a regular specialist wizard by your master, and then when they either feel you are of sufficient power to move into the ranks, they have exploited you as far as they can, or you do away with them, then, and only then, are you indoctrinated into the Red Robes via a special ceremony in which you don the Garments signifying your acquired rank.

At this point you now begin learning the inner secrets of the upper class that are the Red Wizards, NOT before.

All this is summarized in game terms via the Prestige class. It isn't however something you can simply pay a single person to teach you.
sleyvas
07-23-07, 11:17 AM It is in other way: if you can cast spells and you are Thayan you will be taken from you parents and send to training. If you surive the training and become Red Wizard you become Thayan Noble. It reminds Platos idea of philosophy rulers: it is not plutocracy, but aristocrasy: the best rule.(or if the best are all mages:magocracy)
So in sqeezed up form:it doesn't mather are you child of wizards or from middle class, as long as you are wizard.

The red wizards are NOT bloody Rashemi. If you possess the talent for wizardry, then you better HOPE you are of the proper lineage and can garner enough respect to be taken in and trained. If your parents are nobles and/or red wizards this makes it a lot easier. If they aren't nobles, then the only reason a red wizard has to train you is if you can work his circles... and if that red wizard can't tattoo folk yet, he's got to beg another red wizard to tattoo you for him. That's not happening all that often unless they you can make it worth their while with some money.
As to the original question, the red wizards are extremely proud of their Mulan heritage. Finding a rashemi blooded human amongst their ranks is rare, but not unheard of. Finding a mixed breed like a half demonic individual MIGHT happen, but then that mixed breed is VERY likely to find himself slain by another red wizard unless he were part of a powerful noble Thayan family that could (and WOULD... not many would) protect him. You might find some fire genasi, given the recent salamander war, in the next generation. However, I'd see the story behind those being that their mothers maybe didn't know WHO the father was (i.e. raped, but they had been trying to have a child with their husband, etc...). Given that some genasi could probably pass their first few years looking human (their eyes glowing when they're angry might be seen as a latent magical power, or might not occur till they're older), they could probably live long enough that their parents wouldn't want them killed (especially if they worship Kossuth).
Those who possess some skill with arcane magic but facing a lack of willing trainers might actually find themselves likely to recieve training from groups who are considered lesser paths of arcane magic. This part would be non-canon, but I think it works well for Thay. For instance, the dread necromancer and warmage classes work well in Thay. The beguiler would also make a good Thayan class, though a little less common. There would also be wizards who start off getting trained, but aren't felt to be "ready" to take the red robes and would be herded towards other prestige classes (perhaps they have no political aspirations and instead seek to wield the sword, serve their god, or learn the roguish arts). Others may seek an entirely different discipline, such as combining wizardry with binder magic.

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Steropes
07-23-07, 01:15 PM The red wizards are NOT bloody Rashemi. If you possess the talent for wizardry, then you better HOPE you are of the proper lineage and can garner enough respect to be taken in and trained. If your parents are nobles and/or red wizards this makes it a lot easier. If they aren't nobles, then the only reason a red wizard has to train you is if you can work his circles... and if that red wizard can't tattoo folk yet, he's got to beg another red wizard to tattoo you for him. That's not happening all that often unless they you can make it worth their while with some money.

All Thayan children are examined for magical apitudet and those who show the signes will be trained to become Red wizard. (see page 205 of FRCS)
Thayan is land ruled by mages, not powerfull families, therefore it does not mather who did seed or cary you.

Those who possess some skill with arcane magic but facing a lack of willing trainers--

There won't be any proplems.(see page 205 in FRCS) You either are gifted in Right Art(means Wizardy) or you are dangerous and chaotic outlaw who does uses ones might carelessly and must be strip of you power/our life(latter more common way) .(sorceres, beguilers, warmages, warlocks, etc.)
Red_Wizard
07-23-07, 01:46 PM True Thayans are only the Mulani. They are the only ones to be openly tested for aptitude. While some Rashemi are tested at the behest of important parents, it is not a common practice.

Also, there are powerful families within Thay, and many of their children take presidance in choice of tutors, and speed/ ease of study based on their lineage. The Tam family is a prime example of this, sporting several prominent wizards to their name.
MarkusTay63
07-23-07, 04:08 PM However, a Red Wizard half-Drow with a good back-story would make for a very interesting character.

I will admit it is highly improbable, but with TEN Dark Elven cities beneath Thay it IS possible.

I know Undrek'Thoz is technically considered one city (with lotsa suburbs), but originally it was ten seperate cities. ;)

There is also a duergar settlement in the Underdark as well, but I don't see a red Wizard taking to them that way (or in any way, for that matter).
Red_Wizard
07-23-07, 04:15 PM The only back story that could really suffice, would be a polymorphed Drow/ Half-Drow appearing as a Mulani human. In the minds of the Mulan they are the superior race, showing only a mutual and grudging respect in return to the Calishites who are also an old and powerful Realm.

Teaching a Rashemi magic is something bordering on treason, so to teach magic to a being of another species entirely would be almost impossible.

My thoughts on the matter of course, as ultimately each individual DM can choose to allow what they will.
sleyvas
07-24-07, 12:15 PM All Thayan children are examined for magical apitudet and those who show the signes will be trained to become Red wizard. (see page 205 of FRCS)
Thayan is land ruled by mages, not powerfull families, therefore it does not mather who did seed or cary you.

There won't be any proplems.(see page 205 in FRCS) You either are gifted in Right Art(means Wizardy) or you are dangerous and chaotic outlaw who does uses ones might carelessly and must be strip of you power/our life(latter more common way) .(sorceres, beguilers, warmages, warlocks, etc.)

I know what was written. Whoever wrote that was a person who was trying to set a proper mood for the country, but had not thought through the actual rule structure that they were implementing. The content they were writing made perfect sense with the implementation of the circle spell in 2nd edition, however, they were changing that implementation for 3rd edition and didn't take into account how those changes would affect the society.

In 3rd edition and 3.5, In order to be even remotely be getting geared to be a red wizard, you have to be tattooed. In order to be tattooed, you have to be tattooed by a mage of AT LEAST 12th lvl and you have to be tattoed at 1st lvl. Granted, Thay probably has several hundred of these, but the number of 12th lvl mages to the number of 1st lvl - 11th lvl mages out there would be enormous. Thus, the higher level mages in Thay would be spending a vast majority of their time running around tattooing young mages. The Rashemi and Halruaan elders don't need to be near as high in level to initiate folk, thus why this "they test everyone and gear them towards being a X prestige class" would work there. It quite simply would not function under the current rule structure.

Thus, while what was written as canon should always be looked at and thought through. It makes sense that they would test everyone. It also makes sense that some people just ain't gonna get tattooed and geared towards the red wizard class and the chance to rule the country. Thus, alternative training would spring up, but they'd have to put in some controls to keep these groups from gaining significant power. Those controls could be exercised through control of money and playing these groups against one another (or employing them as opposed to wasting an apprentice).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nevercme 07-21-07, 04:13 PM	I realize that the Red Wizard Prestige Class requires that you be Human, but what about just obtaining the title. What I mean is could a Tiefling (Aasimar, Half-Elf, Elf, Genasti) Wizard (or Sorcerer Considering it says that it is possible) be a Red Wizard without taking Levels in the Class? Thanks in advance.
Andyr 07-21-07, 07:53 PM	I don't think a non-human would be accepted as a Red Wizards by other Red Wizards. The one exception might be if they were a genasi, tiefling, half-fiend or the like with their human component of the appropriate ethnic group. You mention Sorcerors--I think the Red Wizards also disallow Sorcerors from joining their order because they don't see it as being 'proper' magic.
Zevox 07-21-07, 09:02 PM	Well, to start with, all Red Wizards are drawn from Thay's Noble population, so Elves or other non-humans don't even have a chance to begin with. Half-Elves are almost certainly never going to happen either, for the reason that no Thayan Noble is anywhere near likely to mate with an Elf - Thayans, and especially the Red Wizards, are some seriously xenophobic bastards (most of the non-humans in Thay are either slaves or mere warriors in their armies). Genasi, Tieflings, and other Planetouched, might be permitted, if they were lucky enough to get a more lenient superior. Unapproachable East says on page 158 that "Tieflings and other planetouched creatures can be found [in Thay] as well, although these rare folk are judged more by their human anscestry than their physical appearance." So Planetouched aren't treated as badly as other non-Humans in Thay, which means if they could be accepted, presuming their human blood comes from a noble Thayan root. As for Sorcerers, according to the FRCS, since they don't follow the sort of regimented systems set out in Thayan magic schools, they're seen as freaks and misfits, and those that don't suppress their talents and focus on Wizardry instead often flee the country. They're there, but they're a tiny, tiny minority. Zevox
runestar 07-22-07, 01:29 AM	You first need the tattoo focus feat, which only humans and planetouched can take. The Zulkir of Conjuration is rumoured to be a tiefling (though his stats put him as a human), so I guess it might be possible with the correct rp (ie: you somehow manage to pass yourself off as a human and get a red wizard to tutor you).:)
Steropes 07-22-07, 08:08 AM	--all Red Wizards are drawn from Thay's Noble population-- It is in other way: if you can cast spells and you are Thayan you will be taken from you parents and send to training. If you surive the training and become Red Wizard you become Thayan Noble. It reminds Platos idea of philosophy rulers: it is not plutocracy, but aristocrasy: the best rule.(or if the best are all mages:magocracy) So in sqeezed up form:it doesn't mather are you child of wizards or from middle class, as long as you are wizard.
Red_Wizard 07-22-07, 09:40 AM	For a human, you must be Mulani in order to be legitimatly trained. Some of the lesser Rashemi make the cut, but this is only when extreme talent is displayed, the child is born of a fling and thus taken under one parents wing, or it is done in secret, with the youths heritage being hidden until they possess the sufficient power to stave off the resulting uprising against them. Planetouched are equally common, as it is often Mulani Wizard/ Fiendish breeding that results in their creation. Ofter this spawns creatures far more arrogant than the straight Mulan, as they then see themselves as the superior race. Aaisimar are extremly unlikely, and without a very good storyline, most likely non existent. Genasi make a guest appearance somewhere in the middle of these two, with fire genasi leading the way -- most likely as firelords for the god kossuth-- and Air trailing much nearer an Aaisimar for unlikelyhood. Lastly sorcerers are treated much as Rashemi are. There is no respect given to their wild talents, and little benifet they can hope to draw from entering into the RW prestige class. The answer to being a Red Wizard without the class is no. A Mage does not enter the presdigious ranks of the Red Wizard until they complete training, and are gifted the red robes. This generally takes place around level 5 out of game, and gaining the red robes is taking the first level in the prestige class. Until a level is taken, they are only Wizards, and thus are still held accountable to donning the colour if they have not been initiated. Wearing of Red in Thay is punishable by death, regardless of station, race, or gender.
Nevercme 07-22-07, 09:43 PM	Wow Thank you All. Tatoo Focus Only requires that you be from Thay. I kind of Figured Elves couldn't become Red Wizards, but considering their Prowess in the Art I thought that there may be an exception :allalone: . It does say that Sorcerers and Bards are possible, but would be looked-down upon. They could hide their variation of the Art (i.e. spending a lot of book reading time, pretending to prepare spells, and hiding their instruments.) :incog: Also it mentions the skills Scry, Innuedo, and Intuit Direction (yes I realize that is a Hathran skill). Could any one provide a link to a page explaing these. Already searched my book and found nothing. Thanks again. :)
KnightErrantJR 07-22-07, 11:38 PM	The skills you are mentioning are 3rd edition skills, as opposed to the updated 3.5 skills. The 3.5 version of the Red Wizard prestige class are in the Dungeon Master's Guide (3.5). There are arcane casters, even wizards, in Thay that aren't Red Wizards. Richard Lee Byers' novel Unclean features a wizard that is part of Thay's military but isn't a Red Wizard, mainly because he isn't ruthless enough and is of Rashemi descent. As has been said, Red Wizards are paranoid, insular lot. For the most part they view Mulan humans as the pinnacle humankind. Even the Rashemi that get indoctrinated into the ranks aren't treated very well (though they get a lot more perks that the average Rashemi in the nation would).
runestar 07-23-07, 12:07 AM	IMO, the human restriction is more of a rp limitation than a mechanical one (in theory, there is nothing stopping a drow from taking up the red wizard prc if only he could find a willing tutor). Contrast this with more "physical" limitations, such as the large prereq for war-hulk. A medium-sized human wouldn't be able to take said prc regardless of good a tutelage he obtained.
Red_Wizard 07-23-07, 09:01 AM	You aren't taught the PrC though. Thus you can not simply find a willing tutor, and then "BE" a Red Wizard. You are trained as a regular specialist wizard by your master, and then when they either feel you are of sufficient power to move into the ranks, they have exploited you as far as they can, or you do away with them, then, and only then, are you indoctrinated into the Red Robes via a special ceremony in which you don the Garments signifying your acquired rank. At this point you now begin learning the inner secrets of the upper class that are the Red Wizards, NOT before. All this is summarized in game terms via the Prestige class. It isn't however something you can simply pay a single person to teach you.
sleyvas 07-23-07, 11:17 AM	It is in other way: if you can cast spells and you are Thayan you will be taken from you parents and send to training. If you surive the training and become Red Wizard you become Thayan Noble. It reminds Platos idea of philosophy rulers: it is not plutocracy, but aristocrasy: the best rule.(or if the best are all mages:magocracy) So in sqeezed up form:it doesn't mather are you child of wizards or from middle class, as long as you are wizard. The red wizards are NOT bloody Rashemi. If you possess the talent for wizardry, then you better HOPE you are of the proper lineage and can garner enough respect to be taken in and trained. If your parents are nobles and/or red wizards this makes it a lot easier. If they aren't nobles, then the only reason a red wizard has to train you is if you can work his circles... and if that red wizard can't tattoo folk yet, he's got to beg another red wizard to tattoo you for him. That's not happening all that often unless they you can make it worth their while with some money. As to the original question, the red wizards are extremely proud of their Mulan heritage. Finding a rashemi blooded human amongst their ranks is rare, but not unheard of. Finding a mixed breed like a half demonic individual MIGHT happen, but then that mixed breed is VERY likely to find himself slain by another red wizard unless he were part of a powerful noble Thayan family that could (and WOULD... not many would) protect him. You might find some fire genasi, given the recent salamander war, in the next generation. However, I'd see the story behind those being that their mothers maybe didn't know WHO the father was (i.e. raped, but they had been trying to have a child with their husband, etc...). Given that some genasi could probably pass their first few years looking human (their eyes glowing when they're angry might be seen as a latent magical power, or might not occur till they're older), they could probably live long enough that their parents wouldn't want them killed (especially if they worship Kossuth). Those who possess some skill with arcane magic but facing a lack of willing trainers might actually find themselves likely to recieve training from groups who are considered lesser paths of arcane magic. This part would be non-canon, but I think it works well for Thay. For instance, the dread necromancer and warmage classes work well in Thay. The beguiler would also make a good Thayan class, though a little less common. There would also be wizards who start off getting trained, but aren't felt to be "ready" to take the red robes and would be herded towards other prestige classes (perhaps they have no political aspirations and instead seek to wield the sword, serve their god, or learn the roguish arts). Others may seek an entirely different discipline, such as combining wizardry with binder magic. Phillip aka Sleyvas
Steropes 07-23-07, 01:15 PM	The red wizards are NOT bloody Rashemi. If you possess the talent for wizardry, then you better HOPE you are of the proper lineage and can garner enough respect to be taken in and trained. If your parents are nobles and/or red wizards this makes it a lot easier. If they aren't nobles, then the only reason a red wizard has to train you is if you can work his circles... and if that red wizard can't tattoo folk yet, he's got to beg another red wizard to tattoo you for him. That's not happening all that often unless they you can make it worth their while with some money. All Thayan children are examined for magical apitudet and those who show the signes will be trained to become Red wizard. (see page 205 of FRCS) Thayan is land ruled by mages, not powerfull families, therefore it does not mather who did seed or cary you. Those who possess some skill with arcane magic but facing a lack of willing trainers-- There won't be any proplems.(see page 205 in FRCS) You either are gifted in Right Art(means Wizardy) or you are dangerous and chaotic outlaw who does uses ones might carelessly and must be strip of you power/our life(latter more common way) .(sorceres, beguilers, warmages, warlocks, etc.)
Red_Wizard 07-23-07, 01:46 PM	True Thayans are only the Mulani. They are the only ones to be openly tested for aptitude. While some Rashemi are tested at the behest of important parents, it is not a common practice. Also, there are powerful families within Thay, and many of their children take presidance in choice of tutors, and speed/ ease of study based on their lineage. The Tam family is a prime example of this, sporting several prominent wizards to their name.
MarkusTay63 07-23-07, 04:08 PM	However, a Red Wizard half-Drow with a good back-story would make for a very interesting character. I will admit it is highly improbable, but with TEN Dark Elven cities beneath Thay it IS possible. I know Undrek'Thoz is technically considered one city (with lotsa suburbs), but originally it was ten seperate cities. ;) There is also a duergar settlement in the Underdark as well, but I don't see a red Wizard taking to them that way (or in any way, for that matter).
Red_Wizard 07-23-07, 04:15 PM	The only back story that could really suffice, would be a polymorphed Drow/ Half-Drow appearing as a Mulani human. In the minds of the Mulan they are the superior race, showing only a mutual and grudging respect in return to the Calishites who are also an old and powerful Realm. Teaching a Rashemi magic is something bordering on treason, so to teach magic to a being of another species entirely would be almost impossible. My thoughts on the matter of course, as ultimately each individual DM can choose to allow what they will.
sleyvas 07-24-07, 12:15 PM	All Thayan children are examined for magical apitudet and those who show the signes will be trained to become Red wizard. (see page 205 of FRCS) Thayan is land ruled by mages, not powerfull families, therefore it does not mather who did seed or cary you. There won't be any proplems.(see page 205 in FRCS) You either are gifted in Right Art(means Wizardy) or you are dangerous and chaotic outlaw who does uses ones might carelessly and must be strip of you power/our life(latter more common way) .(sorceres, beguilers, warmages, warlocks, etc.) I know what was written. Whoever wrote that was a person who was trying to set a proper mood for the country, but had not thought through the actual rule structure that they were implementing. The content they were writing made perfect sense with the implementation of the circle spell in 2nd edition, however, they were changing that implementation for 3rd edition and didn't take into account how those changes would affect the society. In 3rd edition and 3.5, In order to be even remotely be getting geared to be a red wizard, you have to be tattooed. In order to be tattooed, you have to be tattooed by a mage of AT LEAST 12th lvl and you have to be tattoed at 1st lvl. Granted, Thay probably has several hundred of these, but the number of 12th lvl mages to the number of 1st lvl - 11th lvl mages out there would be enormous. Thus, the higher level mages in Thay would be spending a vast majority of their time running around tattooing young mages. The Rashemi and Halruaan elders don't need to be near as high in level to initiate folk, thus why this "they test everyone and gear them towards being a X prestige class" would work there. It quite simply would not function under the current rule structure. Thus, while what was written as canon should always be looked at and thought through. It makes sense that they would test everyone. It also makes sense that some people just ain't gonna get tattooed and geared towards the red wizard class and the chance to rule the country. Thus, alternative training would spring up, but they'd have to put in some controls to keep these groups from gaining significant power. Those controls could be exercised through control of money and playing these groups against one another (or employing them as opposed to wasting an apprentice).