Post/Author/DateTime	Post
danisheraser 04-23-07, 10:43 AM	Hi all. Could really use some ideas for a deity to a druid in the Forgotten Realms. I never realized Druids in the Realms were so bound to a deity, as clerics. My idea is to play a druid who is more in contact with animals then forests and such. The only real deity which goes well there, might be Malar. Be he is clearly insane, and would not go well for a good-aligned druid. Then there is Nobanion, but I have a problem finding a good concept with him as a deity. So...If anyone are up for some concept-writing, I would be very thankful. Thanks.
Dielzen 04-23-07, 12:51 PM	Lurue, Eldath, Gwaeron Windrstrom All are good druid deities (tho GW is more Rangerish) based on their portfolios and dogma.
danisheraser 04-23-07, 01:35 PM	Eldath? Heh...Need a deity with a bit more "Bang!". Eldath's portfolio is: Quiet Places, springs, pools, peace and waterfalls. Come on, only girls chose this deity. Lurue? Well, Lurue has an odd dogma, but it could work. Gwaeron? As you mentioned, he is very "rangerish"
Khaelieth 04-23-07, 01:38 PM	Silvanus, Auril, Talos, Grumbar. There's a lot of them in Faiths and Pantheons.
Karsus the Mad 04-23-07, 01:56 PM	Chauntea is nice.
book_keeper 04-23-07, 02:22 PM	ELDATH!!!! Eldath is the best, great deity for creative campaigning. Gives a unique twist on the traditional hack and slash. Forcing your character to not being able to harm another living creature and still be successful is tough path but very rewarding. Great for Monks, Druids, Clerics, Mages, Sorcerers, Psions, Paladins. Remember undead are okay to lay to rest and so are aberrations , evil outsiders. So they can find their own true peace bestowed them by Eldath. I have a character of my own that followers Eldatha and is a diviner that often uses pools for their focus item for scry spells. I have even gone as far and creating a Chosen of Eldath template. You be surprised how successful one can be when they don't kill. You'd be surprised what riches lie under peaceful waters
Burningspear 04-23-07, 04:07 PM	ELDATH!!!! Eldath is the best, great deity for creative campaigning. Gives a unique twist on the traditional hack and slash. Forcing your character to not being able to harm another living creature and still be successful is tough path but very rewarding. Great for Monks, Druids, Clerics, Mages, Sorcerers, Psions, Paladins. Remember undead are okay to lay to rest and so are aberrations , evil outsiders. So they can find their own true peace bestowed them by Eldath. I have a character of my own that followers Eldatha and is a diviner that often uses pools for their focus item for scry spells. I have even gone as far and creating a Chosen of Eldath template. You be surprised how successful one can be when they don't kill. You'd be surprised what riches lie under peaceful waters As a diviner my guess was u should have worshiped Savras, not Eldath, but thats not what this topic was about. Druids: Akadi, Auril, Chauntea, Lurue (talking beasts), Mielikki (forest creatures), Shiallia (woodland fertility), Silvanus, Ulutiu (arctic dwellers, incl animals), Depending on race: Sebek (wetlands and croc's and rivers), Thard Harr, Aedry Faenya (avian animals), Rilifane Rallathil(woodlands, nature, but not animal, sigh), Baervan Wildwanderer, Baravar Cloakshadow. some don't have the animal domain but do have a lot to do with animals as friends, in one guise or another (burrowing creatures only per example)
Burningspear 04-23-07, 04:09 PM	My idea is to play a druid who is more in contact with animals then forests and such. So...If anyone are up for some concept-writing, I would be very thankful. Thanks. You will have to be much more specific in order for us to come up with any kind of concept, regarding race, alignment, general type of animals that he is interested in, and more... :tie:
Zevox 04-24-07, 02:15 AM	For a Druid more about animals than nature, I'd go with Nobanion, Lurue, or Mielikki. All are heavily tied to beasts - Nobanion to the "regal" cats (lions and the like), Lurue to intelligent/magical beasts (especially Unicorns), and Mielikki to forest creatures as a whole (with the Unicorn as her sacred animal). ...of course, I can count the number of Druids I've played on one finger, and she worshiped Talos, so I may not be the best source of advice on the matter ;) . Zevox
danisheraser 04-24-07, 04:30 AM	You are right, I should be more specific. But first let me say that I am very happy to have recieved so many replies already, thank you. Race: Human Alignment: Neutral/good (or Lawful/neutral) Mielikki seems like a good deity for this druid, she just seems to "fragile" *grin*
Elven Avenger 04-24-07, 10:28 AM	Silvanus is the best option in my opinion, and also my favorite Nature Deity, he allows all Neutral Alignments, so if you want a Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral Human Druid, you can choose Silvanus. He's the most balanced deity also. Read something about him in Faiths and Pantheons or even Faiths and Avatars from Second Edition, explains a lot about him and his way of act.
Mr.Sinister 04-27-07, 06:48 PM	I think Silvanus (Father-Oak) is much more tree-oriented... I'd go for Selūne... a bit unusual, but if you want the beast factor, she's the patron of good lycanthropes. You could focus on one type of animal, and maybe even go the Silverstar PrC route. Else, I'd vote for Mielikki. She may look a bit 'fragile' as you say, but I've seen her portrayed differently a couple of times in a campaign. Just don't endanger forest-life on her watch, she will hunt you relentlessly!
BreegJac17 04-27-07, 09:21 PM	I don't believe you can take Selune as a patron goddess. She isn't listed under the nature deities list.
Khaelieth 04-28-07, 07:03 AM	I don't believe you can take Selune as a patron goddess. She isn't listed under the nature deities list. If Drow can worship Shar, druids can definetly worship the godess of good lycanthropes.
Karsus the Mad 04-28-07, 08:45 AM	If Drow can worship Shar, druids can definetly worship the godess of good lycanthropes. Shar at least has the Underdark as her portfolio (screwed up ye think? Yep). Tho' personally I think Selune would make for an excellent patron of druids. Especially an order of druids dedicated to moon cycles and the like.
Khaelieth 04-28-07, 09:25 AM	Shar at least has the Underdark as her portfolio (screwed up ye think? Yep). Tho' personally I think Selune would make for an excellent patron of druids. Especially an order of druids dedicated to moon cycles and the like. Well, Shar's nicked Underdark off Ibrandul, didn't she? And I've got a Selūnite druid NPC in my ongoing campaign, I think it's brilliant! Defend the grove against werewolves!!
MerrikCale 04-29-07, 07:52 AM	I would say Lurue myself
Fillow 04-29-07, 11:42 AM	Your question make me think about the Moonshae. So I would have say the Goddess, the EarthMother few years later ! But, nowadays, I would say Chauntéa, the successor of the Goddess.
Zevox 05-02-07, 10:15 PM	Mielikki seems like a good deity for this druid, she just seems to "fragile" *grin* Meilikki? Fragile? Thats a new one by me. Shes probably the single biggest patron of Rangers in Faerūn. I have a hard time thinking of her as being fragile. Zevox
cbailey 05-31-07, 08:03 PM	Meilikki? Fragile? Thats a new one by me. Shes probably the single biggest patron of Rangers in Faerūn. I have a hard time thinking of her as being fragile. Zevox Yes, Our Lady of the Forest is a tireless foe of those who would harm nature and it's inhabitants. Also, beauty is not a weakness.
CharlesCurtisStanley 06-02-07, 06:34 PM	Also, beauty is not a weakness. Exactly. And if you doubt that, just ask a Paladin of the Firehair...
Drew1369r 06-02-07, 06:41 PM	A druid could worship Tempus for all that mattered... it doesn't matter what god you chose... you can be a CE druid if you want!
Karsus the Mad 06-02-07, 06:45 PM	A druid could worship Tempus for all that mattered... it doesn't matter what god you chose... you can be a CE druid if you want! Well, I have been playing with the idea of a clockwork/technological druid for my own setting.....
Zevox 06-02-07, 06:54 PM	A druid could worship Tempus for all that mattered... it doesn't matter what god you chose... you can be a CE druid if you want! Not so. In the core rules, Druids may only be NG, LN, TN, CN, or NE, and FR doesn't override that as far as I know. And in the Realms it is a rule that only nature Deities have Druid worshippers. Zevox
MerrikCale 06-02-07, 09:48 PM	Not so. In the core rules, Druids may only be NG, LN, TN, CN, or NE, and FR doesn't override that as far as I know. And in the Realms it is a rule that only nature Deities have Druid worshippers. Zevox The ? then is "whats a nature deity?" Ask 2 different people, you would probably get 2 different lists. Though I would doubt Tempus or Gond would be on anyone's list
Zevox 06-03-07, 02:00 AM	The ? then is "whats a nature deity?" Ask 2 different people, you would probably get 2 different lists. Though I would doubt Tempus or Gond would be on anyone's list Theres a list of them in the FRCS, though if I remember correctly it indicates its not a complete, be-all end-all list. Zevox
Drew1369r 06-03-07, 05:20 AM	Not so. In the core rules, Druids may only be NG, LN, TN, CN, or NE, and FR doesn't override that as far as I know. And in the Realms it is a rule that only nature Deities have Druid worshippers. Zevox In Champions of Ruin they have a CE human druid that is bent on killing everything that harms nature SO with that I say... Tempus is a nature diety as he sees war as natual to the realms... Masks druids as they could steal stuff to help nature. Sune's Druids as nature is beautiful... the list can go on and on
Karsus the Mad 06-03-07, 07:39 AM	The ? then is "whats a nature deity?" Ask 2 different people, you would probably get 2 different lists. Though I would doubt Tempus or Gond would be on anyone's list Gond is on my list...
MerrikCale 06-03-07, 07:56 AM	Theres a list of them in the FRCS, though if I remember correctly it indicates its not a complete, be-all end-all list. Zevox It does say that. For example, we have debated (and I think recent supplements have indicated the existence of) druids of Selune
Zevox 06-03-07, 01:16 PM	In Champions of Ruin they have a CE human druid that is bent on killing everything that harms nature Champions of Ruin also has a Druid who thinks he gets his spells from nature itself, an impossibility in the Realms. It also has stats on the Elder Eternal Evils that make them look like pushoevers compared to the Gods that they're supposed to be powerful enough to frighten. Its not the best source on rules. Tempus is a nature diety as he sees war as natual to the realms... :uh-huh: Where on earth do you get that? Nothing I've ever seen indicates Tempus cares a lick about whats natural or not. Masks druids as they could steal stuff to help nature. :rofl: I'm sorry, but theres no possible way you could spin that and have it work. Mask's dogma encourages selfishness and stealing for your own gain and his faith's gain, not to aid some abstract cause like nature. He'd never sponsor a Druid. Theres few more ridiculous deities you could have proposed, to be honest (Siamorphe, Gargauth, and Waukeen are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head). Sune's Druids as nature is beautiful... Thats a stretch, to say the least. Sune isn't concerned with nature, just beauty, passion, etc. It might be workable, but it'd make much more sense for her to just have some Clerics or at most a small Ranger order that focus on "nature's beauty". Zevox
Drew1369r 06-03-07, 04:02 PM	War is natual [Quote= Tempus Dogma]War should not be feared, but seen as a natural force, a human force] So in Tempus' eyes its natural AND nuetral SO in theory. Im just pointing these things out I don't care one way or another as I think only one person Ive gamed with has actually play a druid and picked a nature diety for it.
Karsus the Mad 06-03-07, 06:50 PM	Champions of Ruin also has a Druid who thinks he gets his spells from nature itself, an impossibility in the Realms. It also has stats on the Elder Eternal Evils that make them look like pushoevers compared to the Gods that they're supposed to be powerful enough to frighten. Its not the best source on rules. Actually, the mentioning of the elven druid lich that gains spells from nature itself rather than from deities is stated matter-of-factly in an out-of-game fashion, not from his personal viewpoint in-game. However, I'd agree that some deity is providing the divine spells to the chap and those he teaches to "not depend on deities". Thats a stretch, to say the least. Sune isn't concerned with nature, just beauty, passion, etc. It might be workable, but it'd make much more sense for her to just have some Clerics or at most a small Ranger order that focus on "nature's beauty". Not really. To some, nature is beauty. The goddess of beauty is Sune. There need not be a mutual exclusion in the minds of mortals.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 06-03-07, 07:58 PM	Well, I have been playing with the idea of a clockwork/technological druid for my own setting..... Interesting concept if the druid was more concerned with ensuring technology and progress worked with nature rather than simply halting it. Ultimately the more successful path in any case. Then of course there is innovating lead by nature, Flying machines patterned after birds much as da vinchi did, materials developed after studying bone and wood and coral to gain there strength and lightness. Yes it would be surprisingly easy to reconcile Gond's work with a druids path.
Zevox 06-03-07, 08:20 PM	So in Tempus' eyes its natural AND nuetral SO in theory. Doesn't matter. Just because Tempus sees war as natural doesn't make him a deity of nature, since he doesn't care about nature (which Druids all do in some way or another), just war and conflict. If every Deity of something that was natural was considered a nature Deity, then nearly all of them would be, which would be ridiculous. Actually, the mentioning of the elven druid lich that gains spells from nature itself rather than from deities is stated matter-of-factly in an out-of-game fashion, not from his personal viewpoint in-game. I know. Doesn't change my point - in character or out, its still a rules error in the book. Not really. To some, nature is beauty. The goddess of beauty is Sune. There need not be a mutual exclusion in the minds of mortals. Sorry, just not seeing it. If there are folks who think like that, okay, but that seems quite strange to me, so the idea that Sune would sponsor Druids seems like quite a stretch to me. Like I said, I could see some subset of her Clerics or an order of Rangers devoted to protecting and nurturing "nature's beauty", but not full-fledged Druids. Zevox
MerrikCale 06-03-07, 09:25 PM	Doesn't matter. Just because Tempus sees war as natural doesn't make him a deity of nature, since he doesn't care about nature (which Druids all do in some way or another), just war and conflict. If every Deity of something that was natural was considered a nature Deity, then nearly all of them would be, which would be ridiculous. I agree. That would be ridiculous. Sune being a nature deity is a stretch to me as well. Nature is in many ways beautiful, perhaps a Sunite would appreciate that and maybe even revere it, but that does not make her a nature deity. But Selune, the goddess of the moon, stars, tides etc, fits in I think
Drew1369r 06-03-07, 09:53 PM	Apperently nobody can seem to get you to think outside the box... but I guess thats how DnD has developed... I"M NOT SAYING THAT HE IS... I'm just saying that you can make a point of any diety being a part of nature... just because some list says so doesn't mean you HAVE to agree with it... jesus, lets open the eyes abit
MerrikCale 06-03-07, 11:07 PM	Apperently nobody can seem to get you to think outside the box... but I guess thats how DnD has developed... I"M NOT SAYING THAT HE IS... I'm just saying that you can make a point of any diety being a part of nature... just because some list says so doesn't mean you HAVE to agree with it... jesus, lets open the eyes abit Its one thing to think outside of the box, its another to equate a war diety with a nature diety. Why have rules?
Zevox 06-04-07, 03:08 AM	I'm just saying that you can make a point of any diety being a part of nature... ...which is exactly the point I was saying is absolutely ridiculous. Its not a matter of open or closed mindedness, its a matter of common sense. Not every Deity can be said to be a nature Deity, no matter if you can spin them to be connected to the concept of nature in some way or another. Theres a distinct difference between being focused on nature and being related to it in some abstract way. Zevox
Drew1369r 06-04-07, 05:03 AM	You guys must also think that a Druid needs to actually worship a diety... I'm just going to stop apparently you can't see past your own nose...
captaincarot 06-04-07, 05:27 AM	You guys must also think that a Druid needs to actually worship a diety... I'm just going to stop apparently you can't see past your own nose... in forgotten realms yes he does, it's one of the points of FR to get divine spells you have to worship a deity, it's in the rules of the universe as set down by Ao. as for Tempus being a nature deity and having druids, not possible, tempus is an incarnation of a mortal creation, war where as nature is an incarnation of an immortal creation. so you can only have druids of none mortal creation concepts, which is why gond is also out. there is nothing stopping you from using them in your game but then your game wouldn't be straight up FR it would be modified from the true spirit of the campaign world setting. so to sum it up, when some one points out to you that your thinking out of the box doesn't fit the concept of the forgotten realms world, then that means it doesn't fit. it doesn't mean that they are stupid or incapable of thinking outside the box and have gone the way of D&D lately. what it actually means is you dont understand the concept of forgotten realms properly. because the concepts that you describe don't fit. there may be absolutely nothing wrong with them, you might think they are really cool and use them in your game. but some poeple get the realms because they want a themed setting and they won't use the concepts because they don't fit.
Karsus the Mad 06-04-07, 07:31 AM	I know. Doesn't change my point - in character or out, its still a rules error in the book. Possibly, and probably. Or it could be one of those exceptions that pop up every so often in the Realms.
Zevox 06-04-07, 07:49 AM	You guys must also think that a Druid needs to actually worship a diety... In the Forgotten Realms, absolutely, they must, unless they want to be little more than commoners with an affinity for nature. Thats a basic rule of the setting - no divine magic or powers without them actually coming from the divine. Personally, thats one of the things I love about the Realms - makes much more sense than allowing Clerics to get magic from thin air just because they believe they can, or Druids to pull it out of trees for the like reason. Zevox
Drew1369r 06-04-07, 04:34 PM	With the advent of Champions of Ruin Druids do not need to worship a diety... They get their power from Nature itself, as all druids do!
Karsus the Mad 06-04-07, 04:36 PM	With the advent of Champions of Ruin Druids do not need to worship a diety... They get their power from Nature itself, as all druids do! That's one specific druid. He's also a lich. And an elf. It's also likely he simply thinks he gets it from nature. Even if he does get it from nature (without a deity behind the scenes), he'd be an exception, not a rule. An exception that'd best be left as a singular exception as well.
Zevox 06-04-07, 05:23 PM	Plus, IIRC, Ed has responded to questions about him by saying he gets his spells from a Deity without knowing it. I think Sage can help us there if he happens by. Zevox
GothicDan 06-04-07, 05:31 PM	This is an example of why I'm always fairly strict with druid deities... how far do you go before it snaps? I just see druids as another type of specialty priest, of nature deities. I wouldn't allow fire clerics of istishia, and i wouldn't allow druids of non-standard nature deities.
Tyberian 06-04-07, 05:47 PM	Maybe I am going off the subject by going back to the original subject, but did anyone ever mention Uthgar as a nature deity? Did the FRCS define nature deity as a deity who grants access to one of the 4 elements or the plant or animal domain? Uthgar has the animal domain and all his differing animal representations give him a good flavor for animal druids if you wish to use totems or the like.
Zevox 06-04-07, 06:09 PM	Maybe I am going off the subject by going back to the original subject, but did anyone ever mention Uthgar as a nature deity? Did the FRCS define nature deity as a deity who grants access to one of the 4 elements or the plant or animal domain? Uthgar has the animal domain and all his differing animal representations give him a good flavor for animal druids if you wish to use totems or the like. The FRCS does not give such a clear-cut definition of a nature deity, no. Uthgar would seem a bit of stretch to me, personally, though not nearly as much as Sune. His portfolios do not include animals of any sort, and his dogma and teachings focus on animals solely for the traits they exemplify, although he does encourage following those animalistic traits and shunning civilization. Hes not quite a cut-and-dry nature deity, but I could see him having a small order of Druids among each of the Uthgardt tribes, probably heavily devoted to their animal totem and to keeping their tribes from mingling with civilization. Zevox
Tyberian 06-04-07, 06:24 PM	I don't have the FRCS book handy, but i believe if you look under character descriptions for druids, it states they must worship a nature deity and then gives a list. I think it also lists the requisites I previously mentioned. Now I will have to go home, dig out my book, and search until I find it or go insane (a relative term....) Thanks a lot guys......:banghead:
Zevox 06-04-07, 06:42 PM	I don't have the FRCS book handy, but i believe if you look under character descriptions for druids, it states they must worship a nature deity and then gives a list. I think it also lists the requisites I previously mentioned. Now I will have to go home, dig out my book, and search until I find it or go insane (a relative term....) Thanks a lot guys......:banghead: I did even before I posted that, actually. It does say they need to worship a nature deity, and it does give a list, though not a complete one (merely says "Nature deities include..."). It does not give any criteria for nature deities, neither what you mentioned nor any other. Zevox
Faraer 06-04-07, 10:11 PM	Some of you are looking at this backwards. "Druids worship nature deities" is not a rule, according to some definite but unrevealed meaning of "nature deities". Rather, certain gods happen to be served -- because of what they are, and their worshippers' history and culture -- by druids, and these gods can be characterized as "nature deities" as a generalization. So, "Do druids serve Tempus?" is not answered by whether he could be somehow thought a "nature deity" or not. For Uthgar, the religious tradition of the Uthgardt is shamanic rather than druidic. And for any given god this is two distinct questions. First, does a body of druids serve the god? This is a matter of Realmslore (and campaign-specific variation). Second, is it conceivable that somewhere, somehow, a druid could be devoted to the god? Well, strange things happen. That kind of exception is, roleplayingwise, completely down to the DM and players in the particular campaign.
GothicDan 06-04-07, 10:36 PM	DM's fiat.. Most powerful rule of all!
Drew1369r 06-04-07, 10:51 PM	Some of you are looking at this backwards. "Druids worship nature deities" is not a rule, according to some definite but unrevealed meaning of "nature deities". Rather, certain gods happen to be served -- because of what they are, and their worshippers' history and culture -- by druids, and these gods can be characterized as "nature deities" as a generalization. So, "Do druids serve Tempus?" is not answered by whether he could be somehow thought a "nature deity" or not. For Uthgar, the religious tradition of the Uthgardt is shamanic rather than druidic. And for any given god this is two distinct questions. First, does a body of druids serve the god? This is a matter of Realmslore (and campaign-specific variation). Second, is it conceivable that somewhere, somehow, a druid could be devoted to the god? Well, strange things happen. That kind of exception is, roleplayingwise, completely down to the DM and players in the particular campaign. And yet most people here wont seem to get it...
GothicDan 06-04-07, 10:57 PM	Drew, from how I've read it, Faraer isn't supporting one way or the other, as much as to take all considerations into account using the above mindset. One could still say yay or nay. I personally don't include the unique exceptions in my 'rules,' even if I would allow them for good roleplayers with adequate knowledge of Realmsian culture and religion.
captaincarot 06-05-07, 03:27 AM	With the advent of Champions of Ruin Druids do not need to worship a diety... They get their power from Nature itself, as all druids do! NOT IN THE FORGOTTEN REALMS. central tennet of the realms is that all divine spell users MUST get their spells from a deity. this stuff in champions of ruin does not apply to the realms.
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 01:31 PM	NOT IN THE FORGOTTEN REALMS. central tennet of the realms is that all divine spell users MUST get their spells from a deity. this stuff in champions of ruin does not apply to the realms. Really? So the Forgotten Realms logo on the book means its not for Forgetton Realms? Interesting logic to say the least
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 01:31 PM	Drew, from how I've read it, Faraer isn't supporting one way or the other, as much as to take all considerations into account using the above mindset. One could still say yay or nay. I personally don't include the unique exceptions in my 'rules,' even if I would allow them for good roleplayers with adequate knowledge of Realmsian culture and religion. What I was getting at the whole time... its not the book but the DM...
GothicDan 06-05-07, 01:38 PM	But it largely is the book - in as much as it's the book that the DM must look at and use as a basis for judgment. I'm not referring exclusively to the PHB or the FRCS here, but rather ALL sources of Realms material, whether printed in a book or otherwise. As far as I'm concerned, I largely agree with the idea of a base nature-deity list - to begin with. It's a good 'rule' to use as a basis. After that, one should modify it according to one's personal analysis of all of the Realms material as printed, the standard of worshippers, and so on. I largely preferred the Specialty Priests of 2e over the core Cleric or Druid, because I felt it took much of the above into account. I couldn't imagine, for instance, why a Druid of Talos would be granted all of the same abilities as one of Silvanus, when Talos never represented the same things as Silvanus, and does not have dominion over the same things.
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 02:16 PM	Yes... and since alot of people here seem so rule nitpicky I decided to point it out...
GothicDan 06-05-07, 02:17 PM	I tend not to point out the whole "You can do whatever you want!" thing. I think it's a bit insulting to infer that someone didn't know that in the first place. I really don't think anyone thinks there's some hidden D&D police that will hunt them down if they don't follow the rules exactly. ;)
captaincarot 06-05-07, 03:00 PM	I really don't think anyone thinks there's some hidden D&D police that will hunt them down if they don't follow the rules exactly. ;) there aren't AAAAGGGGHHH! so who are those strange guys rooting about in my rubbish and peering through the windows at night! this is one of the problems we get, core realms says, druids have to worship a nature deity. then they come up with some lich who thinks he doesn't and the whole thing goes to pot. is it toomuch to ask for some form of internal consistancy?
Karsus the Mad 06-05-07, 05:03 PM	NOT IN THE FORGOTTEN REALMS. central tennet of the realms is that all divine spell users MUST get their spells from a deity. this stuff in champions of ruin does not apply to the realms. That's funny. I swore that there was a Forgotten Realms logo on that book and that it deals with Evil beings, organizations, etc of the Realms. I'm also pretty sure it has Aumvor the Undying in it to. I believe he was a Netherese arcanist...hmmm...maybe I'm imagining it all;) Just playing with you. It is a Realms book and does apply to the Realms. Even the entry on Lassarwyn the Ice Lich. As to the exact nature of his source for magic, I'm unclear. The book certainly seems to be in a matter of fact state. As I noted above tho', I think there's a deity behind it. Even if there's not a deity behind his power, I reason it to "Yes, he gets his power from nature. Wow...well looky here. Nature is a deity. Her name is Chauntea. She's the planet. Wow.":)
Tyberian 06-05-07, 06:36 PM	I don't have the FRCS book handy, but i believe if you look under character descriptions for druids, it states they must worship a nature deity and then gives a list. I think it also lists the requisites I previously mentioned. Now I will have to go home, dig out my book, and search until I find it or go insane (a relative term....) Thanks a lot guys......:banghead: Honestly, I don't know where I came up with that after looking in the FRCS book..... Oh well, fortunately I have enough experience at being wrong that I can take it well.
brisingre 06-05-07, 06:52 PM	theres a book i have on pdf that has just the answer for this sort of thing, i think its "deities of the realms" or something like that.
brisingre 06-05-07, 06:57 PM	That's funny. I swore that there was a Forgotten Realms logo on that book and that it deals with Evil beings, organizations, etc of the Realms. I'm also pretty sure it has Aumvor the Undying in it to. I believe he was a Netherese arcanist...hmmm...maybe I'm imagining it all;) Just playing with you. It is a Realms book and does apply to the Realms. Even the entry on Lassarwyn the Ice Lich. As to the exact nature of his source for magic, I'm unclear. The book certainly seems to be in a matter of fact state. As I noted above tho', I think there's a deity behind it. Even if there's not a deity behind his power, I reason it to "Yes, he gets his power from nature. Wow...well looky here. Nature is a deity. Her name is Chauntea. She's the planet. Wow.":) lassarwyn gets s power from a fallen deity that was the predecsessor of meilkki, yet is still alive and retains is deity powers (including those to grant spells) he wanders the endless chaos of the astral plane feeding of its chaotic energies. i read way too much........... theres a series of novels with lassarwyn and his deity in it ill try n see if i can find it to give people a further reference for them if they wish.
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 08:13 PM	To be honest it doesn't talk about JUST the ice lich but atm all the druids that are apart of the Human hating elf group that they are being accepted because they are receiving their spells from nature itself not the dieties
GothicDan 06-05-07, 11:53 PM	Ed Greenwood pointed out that there is in fact one deity behind these druids. They just don't know it.
Zanan 06-06-07, 03:56 AM	Ed Greenwood pointed out that there is in fact one deity behind these druids. They just don't know it. Lolth? One of the main aims of 3E was to make it all easier. The one-step-rule as much as the "druids must have a deity instead of Nature itself" are not exactly living up to this notion. I for one still use the F&A series' alignment and druid patron deities with as less restrictions as possible ... if the background story is decent enough. I've also taken a liking to the idea presented in Unearthed Arcana about the Prestige Rangers, where virtually anyone can become some sort of divine Nature-linked caster without actually having to switch faiths or patrons.
captaincarot 06-06-07, 04:51 AM	oooops! forgot champions of ruin was a realms book. i am actually 6 miles away from my books and was when i wrote that. so please forgive obviousy rediculous oversites like that. in fact i never post on here from home. only from work or my girl friends house. when at home i have other things to do, like writing adventures and atually playing the game.
Karsus the Mad 06-06-07, 05:40 AM	lassarwyn gets s power from a fallen deity that was the predecsessor of meilkki, yet is still alive and retains is deity powers (including those to grant spells) he wanders the endless chaos of the astral plane feeding of its chaotic energies. i read way too much........... theres a series of novels with lassarwyn and his deity in it ill try n see if i can find it to give people a further reference for them if they wish. So it's NOT Chauntea? Damn, I was going to use that if I ever played again:( Show a darker aspect of her and all that:(
ShadezofDis 06-06-07, 11:21 AM	So it's NOT Chauntea? Damn, I was going to use that if I ever played again:( Show a darker aspect of her and all that:( "Durned humans! Get off my lawn!" ;)
ShadezofDis 06-06-07, 11:34 AM	So anyhow, I'm really with Dan on this one, specialty priests would suit me SO MUCH better than what we've got right now. The "nature diety" list is in F&P on page 90. I find it pretty cheesy that the "ice lich" draws his power from a dead god, I can easily see Silvanus granting him spells (to preserve balance) or another deity for whatever reason. Anyhow, I find the whole new druids of any alignment thing to be crap. As I find the whole nature deities being good or evil crap. But that's just my opinion. :)
GothicDan 06-06-07, 01:48 PM	I wasn't even aware there were novels featuring Lossarwyn. Is this another case of WotC going, "Hey, look, a plot hook! LOL, JK, we just solved it in these here novels!" ?
captaincarot 06-07-07, 04:23 AM	Anyhow, I find the whole new druids of any alignment thing to be crap. As I find the whole nature deities being good or evil crap. But that's just my opinion. :) you will be wanting them to bring back a maximum level of 14 next. i quite like the new lessened restrictions.
ShadezofDis 06-07-07, 09:26 AM	you will be wanting them to bring back a maximum level of 14 next. i quite like the new lessened restrictions. Nope, nor would I bring back the "in order to get to the next level you need to find and beat the guy who has that level". Which I think was a Druid thing along with Monks. I'd do the "you need to find a guy and beat him" for a political office type deal, but not for a level. Anyhow, it really depends on how one runs alignment, I have no problems with a NG Druid so long as he's putting nature first. If you don't put nature first then I don't think you should be a druid, you're just a cleric that likes plants.
GothicDan 06-07-07, 12:42 PM	This may come as a shocker to some, but some people ACTUALLY like the older rules (some of them, or most of them, or just a few of them), not because they ARE older, but because they just like them. GASP! Not everyone jumping on the "newer is better because it's newer" bandwagon? UNPOSSIBLE. I totally agree with Shadez. I don't like the new druid alignments, but I don't want to see a return to the 14th level caps or weird challenges - except for political gain.
ShadezofDis 06-07-07, 12:55 PM	I totally agree with Shadez. I don't like the new druid alignments, but I don't want to see a return to the 14th level caps or weird challenges - except for political gain. Yeah, IMO one of the worst things about older editions is that levels = political power. I think that's crap too :)
GothicDan 06-07-07, 12:58 PM	See, there, I differ. It's perfectly acceptable for some fields, I think. Druid circles that follow a more predatory pack hierarchy would make perfect sense, since physical/magical power can translate to more than just combat (also experience, wisdom, etc.) Then again, I'm the Theta of my Fraternity chapter, and I consider hierarchy to be one of the most natural things in existence when sentient beings gather together. I love wolf packs and lion prides, too. ;)
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 06-07-07, 01:22 PM	Pride of lions... Trust a Physicist to mess up basic taxonomy ;)
GothicDan 06-07-07, 01:32 PM	Oh yeah, insult my knowledge of zoology just because I typed something wrong. :p I was distracted. And do social groups fall under 'taxonomy?' I thought that would be purely biological nomenclature.
ShadezofDis 06-07-07, 01:53 PM	See, there, I differ. It's perfectly acceptable for some fields, I think. Druid circles that follow a more predatory pack hierarchy would make perfect sense, since physical/magical power can translate to more than just combat (also experience, wisdom, etc.) Then again, I'm the Theta of my Fraternity chapter, and I consider hierarchy to be one of the most natural things in existence when sentient beings gather together. I love wolf packs and lion prides, too. ;) Oh, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a hierarchy, nor that the hierarchy wouldn't be effected by relative class levels. What I'm saying is a level 14 druid shouldn't be a level 12 druid's master just because he's level 14. If he kicks the crap out of the level 12 druid, or is more knowledgeable, or has more friends, etc, then he should be his master. :)
GothicDan 06-07-07, 02:06 PM	I think that there were unstated rules that basically implied that's what would happen if the two met, without having to go through all of the actual dice rolling. Just like sometimes two animals can avoid conflicts by displays of prowess without actually resorting to combat. :) "Rawr, I am THIS tall. *Tree scratch.* You can't take me!"
ShadezofDis 06-07-07, 02:25 PM	I think that there were unstated rules that basically implied that's what would happen if the two met, without having to go through all of the actual dice rolling. Just like sometimes two animals can avoid conflicts by displays of prowess without actually resorting to combat. :) "Rawr, I am THIS tall. *Tree scratch.* You can't take me!" Oh, I certainly agree with that. Especially since Druids are basically a part of nature and animals don't generally kill each other when figuring out the hierarchy. :)
GothicDan 06-07-07, 02:32 PM	Or eating...
captaincarot 06-11-07, 04:57 AM	This may come as a shocker to some, but some people ACTUALLY like the older rules (some of them, or most of them, or just a few of them), not because they ARE older, but because they just like them. GASP! Not everyone jumping on the "newer is better because it's newer" bandwagon? UNPOSSIBLE. I totally agree with Shadez. I don't like the new druid alignments, but I don't want to see a return to the 14th level caps or weird challenges - except for political gain. and some people found them so rediculously restrictive that they took up playing rolemaster. leaving D&D for nigh on 20 years till they came up with a nice compromise between the 2
Zireael 06-11-07, 07:06 AM	As far as I remember Lloth is at the back of the Ibrandul's druids. Is that correct? As for the question, I think the best deity would be Mielikki.
GothicDan 06-11-07, 07:41 AM	Lolth is granting spells in Moander's name. Shar is granting spells in Ibrandul's name. And as an aside, Tiamat is granting spells as Entropy.
captaincarot 06-11-07, 08:02 AM	"Durned humans! Get off my lawn!" ;) you think you got problems with humans, just wait till us dwarves find it, you will think a mole infestation is a breeze!
ShadezofDis 06-11-07, 08:20 AM	you think you got problems with humans, just wait till us dwarves find it, you will think a mole infestation is a breeze! Nah, that's some good stuff. Akin to exfoliation. ;) (You may have read my comment incorrectly. I was saying that a darker Chauntea might express that sort of sentiment. :))
rjfras 06-12-07, 01:51 AM	Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Pg 23, 2nd column Druid Like clerics, the druids of Faerun receive their spells from a particual patron diety, always a diety of nature or animals. However, duids do not necessarily see a clear division between nature and the divine forces that run through nature. While many people think only of forests when they think of druids, druids care also for the mountains, deserts, lakes and even the swamps of Faerun. Nature dieties include Chauntea, Eldath, Gwaeron Windstrom, Lurue, Malar, Mielikki, Nobanion, Shiallia, Silvanus, Talos, Ubtao, Ulutiu, Umberlee, Anhur, Isis, Osiris, Sebek, Set, Thard Harr, Aerdrie Faenya, Angharradh, Deep Sashelas, Rillifane Rallathil, Baervan Wildwanderer, Segojan Earthcaller and Sheela Peryroyl. There is nothing about this being only a partial list or there are others. Above is what it reads in the book. I think the part underlined is pretty clear "always a diety of nature or animals"
GothicDan 06-12-07, 01:54 AM	Usually one writes... include (but are not limited to)... if that's what they mean. It's being sloppy with logic (as in, the study of discrete logic and mathematics) to make a set of something and expect observers to assume it's incomplete, without saying so.
ShadezofDis 06-12-07, 09:45 AM	Also, F&P has a nature deity list *looks at book* on page 90. In fact, it's titled "Complete Nature Deity List" and it looks like it includes several who aren't in the FRCS (under the nature deity list). Ummm. . . wtf is Anhur doing with druidic worshipers? That seems. . . stupid. (And no, war is not a part of nature, conflict certainly IS but natural conflicts, ie. the predator/prey dynamics or the protection of territory, are not war)
brisingre 06-23-07, 03:28 PM	anhur is really an odd choice to put in a nature deity list, but its not the first, nor the last slight oversight WOTC has/will, made/make
BreegJac17 06-23-07, 05:07 PM	But he also has thunder and rain in his portfolio.
brisingre 06-23-07, 06:10 PM	yes, but he also has war....
Lunar190 06-24-07, 12:43 PM	I made many fantastic druids chaotic neutral or neutral evil who worship Malar. They are full of rage of nature. Always fighting in shaped form :) Silvanus&Chauntea - never checked by me, but they are the most universal option. Nobanion is really cool. Lawful neutral or neutral good animals makes interesting oposition to Malar worshippers what makes very tasty conflict among the forests :) Elemental druids are also fine. In every aspect we must remember that in Toril every divine power is gained from deities, so druids are as clerical as clerics of other faiths. I recommend druids fights around Lake of Steam region. There druids fighting and animaly murdering is part of celebration and festival.
GothicDan 06-24-07, 03:58 PM	The idea that all of the hundreds of deities still gifting their worshippers with almost the exact slate of abilities still makes me giggle. A Priest of Talos not being able to cast Lightning Bolt, standard, without bypassing certain limitations? Odd. A Druid of Malar being able to Shapeshift into a species of prey animal? Blasphemous.
ShadezofDis 06-25-07, 10:03 AM	A Druid of Malar being able to Shapeshift into a species of prey animal? Blasphemous. I can see a Druid of Malar taking prey shape in order to lure something in, a sort of mimic type jam. Though I'm sure that's not what you're talking about at all. ;) I'd also noticed the Anhur had absorbed Ramman (Untheric Diety of War, . . . Thunder and Rain. . . not completely sure what the last two parts of his portfolio were but it's something like Thunder or Storms and Rain) who seems to have had a decent argument for having more "air focused" druids under his (Ramman's) wing. Which could explain Anhur's inclusion, haven't looked at Anhur's write ups before absorbing Ramman though.
Lunar190 06-25-07, 12:00 PM	A Druid of Malar being able to Shapeshift into a species of prey animal? Blasphemous. Church of Malar allows it. Shapeshift is fundamental for druids preying and hunting as beasts. These are not Black Blood licantropes :) which allows only their kin. A Priest of Talos not being able to cast Lightning Bolt, standard, without bypassing certain limitations? Odd. Well, there is only domain spell option. And not all clerics of Talos must be able to cast Lighting Bolt, because this is not only primary power/portfolio of this god.
ShadezofDis 06-25-07, 12:33 PM	Church of Malar allows it. Shapeshift is fundamental for druids preying and hunting as beasts. These are not Black Blood licantropes :) which allows only their kin. Except in the case of acting as a lure I don't see a Malarite ever choosing to shapeshift into a nonpredatory animal, nor do I see Malar looking upon such an act with any favor what so ever. We're talking about Malar and druids who serve Malar are basically specialty priests who follow Malar's dogma closer than most clerics would.
BreegJac17 06-25-07, 01:52 PM	But i think Malar would think it as a form of stalking. Just think you are following your enemy in the form of a docile animal, such as a deer or an antelope, then when you have your enemy in a false sense of security you change into a bear or panther and rip him into shreds.
ShadezofDis 06-25-07, 02:49 PM	But i think Malar would think it as a form of stalking. Just think you are following your enemy in the form of a docile animal, such as a deer or an antelope, then when you have your enemy in a false sense of security you change into a bear or panther and rip him into shreds. Yeah, there is that idea. However, there are PLENTY of tiny, hunting creatures to choose from before going for a form that isn't a predator. And . . . there's nothing docile about deer or antelope. They aren't predators but I'd bet you a decent amount that there's no way you'd lay hands on one. :) Also, anytime a deer or antelope is following you in the woods then you know somethings up. Another factor is that the follower should feel disgust at the form and the feelings brought on by being in the form. (if you're a rabbit then suddenly the whole world is looking to eat you)
CharlesCurtisStanley 06-26-07, 01:42 AM	Another factor is that the follower should feel disgust at the form and the feelings brought on by being in the form. (if you're a rabbit then suddenly the whole world is looking to eat you) Which would imply that in a hierarchically structured pack of Malarite shapeshifters, the one at the bottom of the pecking order— the pack "omega"— would be the one forced to assume the form of prey.
ShadezofDis 06-26-07, 10:05 AM	Which would imply that in a hierarchically structured pack of Malarite shapeshifters, the one at the bottom of the pecking order— the pack "omega"— would be the one forced to assume the form of prey. For one of two reasons. To act as a lure. Or To be humiliated by the others of the pack. Not something that would be done often, unless the top of the pack was especially petty.