Did they make any changes on the core races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Did they make any changes on the core races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
creyzi4zb12
09-09-07, 01:45 AM So 4e is now here. Did they make any changes on the PHB races? Namely the half-elf, half-orc or the dwarf?
Derren S.
09-09-07, 03:45 AM 4E is still months away so we don't know. There are speculations but that is all.
GothicDan
09-09-07, 10:32 AM What sort of changes are you hoping for, creyzi?
Lord Karsus
09-09-07, 07:06 PM What sort of changes are you hoping for, creyzi?

-Orcs are the new creator race.
Dark Wizard
09-09-07, 07:36 PM Gnomes killing the kobolds and taking all their stuff, or rather setting it on fire since theres not much for keeps.
Suin Bahhar
09-09-07, 08:59 PM Do you think they will change the appearance of humans?
MerrikCale
09-09-07, 09:16 PM someone has said gnomes will no longer be a "playable" race. Thats until the Races of Wild for $39.95 comes out
Lord Karsus
09-09-07, 11:39 PM Do you think they will change the appearance of humans?

-I hear they're all going to have equine tauric limbs...
Derren S.
09-10-07, 03:21 AM It is rumored that a traditional PC race will not be in the first core books (they plan to release a set of core books every year). Also it looks like many setting specific or formerly LA races will become core races like Warforged, Tieflings and Eladrin. And of course the abilities and fluff of the races will change too.

If and how this will effect the realms is not known.
Suin Bahhar
09-10-07, 07:00 AM -I hear they're all going to have equine tauric limbs...

I'll start apllying it to my roomates first, to start the retconning.
Scalpel!...splatter...Sciscors!...ripp.. ..Drill!..rev.rev..splatter..Oops!
Scalpel!....
Lord Karsus
09-10-07, 12:28 PM I'll start apllying it to my roomates first, to start the retconning.
Scalpel!...splatter...Sciscors!...ripp.. ..Drill!..rev.rev..splatter..Oops!
Scalpel!....

-Heh. Imagine retcons in real life...:)

It is rumored that a traditional PC race will not be in the first core books...

-Now, is it me, or is that just silly?
GothicDan
09-10-07, 04:35 PM Totally. They should have taken the Halfling out, if anything. They don't even know who they are.

Gnomes are so much cooler.
SATA
09-10-07, 08:44 PM Races of Faerun.

Doesn't matter how many changes they made, from MY point of view, it doesn't matter, cuz not every race have 'room' in FR, that's why we have Races of Faerun and some other sources where some other races are implemented. So I guess that in 4e will stay the same, the FR crew will handle the situation, evaluate the changes and see what applies to FR and what not. At least is what I expect and hope.
MerrikCale
09-10-07, 09:10 PM Totally. They should have taken the Halfling out, if anything. They don't even know who they are.

Gnomes are so much cooler.

Agreed.

They better not make those lame-ass warforged core. I'd take raptorans and goliaths over them. i fail to understand why a particular setting can't have its own races
Dark Wizard
09-10-07, 10:41 PM Gnomes may be gone until their triumphant return in the PHB II (possibly 5E depending on when the gnomes feel like getting around to it) where they reveal their disappearance was nothing but an illusionary world enchantment orchestrated by epic gnome magicians. At least that's the sort of weight the gnomes in my world throw around.
MerrikCale
09-10-07, 10:54 PM Gnomes may be gone until their triumphant return in the PHB II (possibly 5E depending on when the gnomes feel like getting around to it) where they reveal their disappearance was nothing but an illusionary world enchantment orchestrated by epic gnome magicians. At least that's the sort of weight the gnomes in my world throw around.

or perhaps they will return in May 2011 with the advent of 4.5e, or perhaps in May 2013 in 4.75e, or in May 2015 in 5e
GothicDan
09-10-07, 10:58 PM I did a LOT with the gnomes in my world.

I kept the tinkering/engineering aspect, and the illusions, and also made them the masters of shadow magic. They were also the traders, merchants, and inventors of the land. Every 3 years they'd have the Grand Carnival, in which they'd use all sorts of crazy machines to travel throughout the land and show off inventions, stimulate trade, and the like. Like the World's Fair. Countries that were almost completely closed to trade were open to the Gnomes and the Gnomes alone, for such events.

The Gnomish king was a massive epic-level Illusionist/Shadow Mage type, with a special PrC that left them craft items and such out of Shadow. Now that I think about it, the Artificer class would have fit in perfectly with their society, had I thought of it.

They also had one of the most powerful mercantlle/thieving guilds in the entire continent, spanning many countries and empires. While their power wasn't as consolidated and full-blown magical as my Elven empire, it was far more widespread, and they had more potential allies.

I guess it was a bit of Eberron in my world. :)
MerrikCale
09-10-07, 11:01 PM I guess it was a bit of Eberron in my world. :)

traitor
GothicDan
09-10-07, 11:03 PM It was before Eberron came out, though! Well, the basic concept was. I worked on that world for years before I got bored with it and trashed it.
MerrikCale
09-10-07, 11:07 PM It was before Eberron came out, though! Well, the basic concept was. I worked on that world for years before I got bored with it and trashed it.

you should publish it then. Did it have lame-ass warforges and those psionic people
GothicDan
09-10-07, 11:23 PM Naw. Though one of the reasons I trashed it WAS because I didn't feel it was right to use standard races and just try to slap different cultures on them.

And that's largely where my dislike of Eberron's "different for being different"'s sake comes from, even if, per se, I actually like the culture of the Valenar or whatnot.

Since then I've been toying with a lot of setting/race ideas.
MarkusTay63
09-11-07, 01:20 AM After reading that spoiler, Creyzi, you may just get your wish and we will wind up with Orcs. Obviously, from what was said there, half-orcs are going to be a LOT more common.

Since everyone seems to breeding with Orcs in the future, they should just make it a template...

Will we even have templates...? :uh-huh:

I don't know about the rest of you, but a PH, DMG, MM, etc EVERY YEAR sounds a bit much...

Oh, and complete books that need a 'II' are a bit of an oxymoron, eh?
Derren S.
09-11-07, 04:01 AM From what I heared 4E will be full of templates as those will be used by the DM to adjust the power level of encounters.

And another thing, Drow will apparently also become a core race. How much should we bet that their racial talents will include 2 weapon fighting abilities?
Lord Karsus
09-11-07, 10:13 AM I kept the tinkering/engineering aspect, and the illusions, and also made them the masters of shadow magic. They were also the traders, merchants, and inventors of the land. Every 3 years they'd have the Grand Carnival, in which they'd use all sorts of crazy machines to travel throughout the land and show off inventions, stimulate trade, and the like. Like the World's Fair. Countries that were almost completely closed to trade were open to the Gnomes and the Gnomes alone, for such events.

-Hey, hey. My setting has something very similar.
MarkusTay63
09-11-07, 01:55 PM I heard 'Muppet Babies' were becoming a core race. :P

Guys, you should play Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. You will find out the true depth of Gnomish madness...

They enjoy 'genetic experiments' as well (think Dr.Moreau meets the 3rd Reich). They are consumate schemers, and try to control all of the countries through financial means by controlling trade routes and blowing up competitors. They have even enslaved the poor, stupid half-Ogres, and like to take human 'tropy wives'.

An incredibly deep game BTW, and you can probably find it in a bargain-bin these days for $10. The graphics are dated, but the storylines make it worth it. There are even some fun quests you can do at the brothel.... ;)

From what I heared 4E will be full of templates as those will be used by the DM to adjust the power level of encounters.

And another thing, Drow will apparently also become a core race. How much should we bet that their racial talents will include 2 weapon fighting abilities?Since the Scout is being absorbed by the Ranger, I wouldn't doubt that some of the Ranger abilities might 'drift' elsewhere.
GothicDan
09-11-07, 02:22 PM -Hey, hey. My setting has something very similar

We should totally make a setting together.
MarkusTay63
09-11-07, 09:08 PM Awwww... :(

Can't I play too?
The Ubbergeek
09-11-07, 11:36 PM you should publish it then. Did it have lame-ass warforges and those psionic people

Childish a bit... Instead of saying that you don't like, you say 'lame ass'.

Not even a fan of eberron as I am a fan of FR, but the Warforged are, to quote a certain cartoon, more than meet the eyes....

Not that I would make them core, but they should not be dismissed.

The Kalashtar also are quite flavorfull, and closer to core.

It may not belong to FR, it don't make them anymore stupid than rehashed tolkienesque fare. Guess you can't bring different ideas in D&D....
Dark Wizard
09-11-07, 11:48 PM Drow probably will not get dual-wielding bonuses. If they wanted you to make Drizzt clones they will encourage you to play both a Drow AND a Ranger. It preserves the translation so fanboys can carry out their dream clone characters more accurately. We should be thankful alignment requirements are more or less waived in recent editions, else those would all be GOOD Drow Rangers running around.

As for Eberron, my first disappointment with it was when the pulp flavor started to fray a few pages after the ECS stated it was supposed to be pulpy (and noirish as fans claim). All the cool catch phrases and marketing terms blended into a big meaningless mass and in the end the setting wasn't much of what it claimed to be. It became just another D&D setting after a supplement or two with a few gems buried here or there, no different than some of FR's more mediocre offerings.
The Ubbergeek
09-11-07, 11:53 PM As for Eberron, my first disappointment with it was when the pulp flavor started to fray a few pages after the ECS stated it was supposed to be pulpy (and noirish as fans claim). All the cool catch phrases and marketing terms blended into a big meaningless mass and in the end the setting wasn't much of what it claimed to be. It became just another D&D setting after a supplement or two with a few gems buried here or there, no different than some of FR's more mediocre offerings.

Not saying it's the best - FR is for me, always will be - but it have also it,s qualities among it's defaults. And it will NOT kill FR, or smother away classic ones; it was aimed more at peoples who don't like the tolkien-inspired, classical fantasy world, and who dislike the failings of those worlds.

As you said, it is a setting like the others. No better, no worse. A member if the familly.
Lord Karsus
09-12-07, 11:54 AM They enjoy 'genetic experiments' as well (think Dr.Moreau meets the 3rd Reich). They are consumate schemers, and try to control all of the countries through financial means by controlling trade routes and blowing up competitors. They have even enslaved the poor, stupid half-Ogres, and like to take human 'tropy wives'.

-Hmm...Big noses, schemers, trying to control the world via financial means, trophy wives...Who are we talking about here? ;) :D
Valgard
09-12-07, 12:20 PM Childish a bit... Instead of saying that you don't like, you say 'lame ass'.

Not even a fan of eberron as I am a fan of FR, but the Warforged are, to quote a certain cartoon, more than meet the eyes....

Not that I would make them core, but they should not be dismissed.

The Kalashtar also are quite flavorfull, and closer to core.

It may not belong to FR, it don't make them anymore stupid than rehashed tolkienesque fare. Guess you can't bring different ideas in D&D....
First, if I were to put down a race from the PH, I think it would be the half-orc -- an underpowered race and it makes you think that every human town has women 'seduced' (I'm trying to be sarcastic here) by orcs.

Second, I'm not very fan of importing races with great background to core D&D, and that includes specific races from other campaigns. But if I would, the races that Ubbergeek mentions -- the warforged and the kalashtar -- are exactly the races that I wouldn't include in core... kalashtar are bound to the quori and the region of dreams (... too specific...) and the warforged need the soulforges and similar things (...this too...). The changeling and shifter are much more generalist (human descendands of doppelganger and lycanthropes respectively).

Third, the gnomes are included in the coolest races of core, much better than half-human breeds and halflings!
MarkusTay63
09-12-07, 12:54 PM -Hmm...Big noses, schemers, trying to control the world via financial means, trophy wives...Who are we talking about here? ;) :DNot to offend, LK, but ummmmm....

I've seen the connection as well, and since I liked that take on the gnomes so much, I introduced a large group of them to my Realms just like that.

They were enslaved by Mulhorand at one point.... :rolleyes:

And when they got free through the auspices of their 'holy leader', they took to wearing the strange little beenie their saviour was fond of wearing...

They built their own kingdom in the Shaar, on the borders of southern Mulhorand and Unther.

Ummmm... is that a little 'too RW' for you?

Their chain of gabel shops is doing rather well, though... especially since they started carrying Luiren Cheese (extra creamy).

I was thinking of having some of the Tinker Gnomes come over from Lantan, and attach some propellers to the beanies... :P
Lord Karsus
09-12-07, 01:34 PM Not to offend, LK, but ummmmm....

I've seen the connection as well, and since I liked that take on the gnomes so much, I introduced a large group of them to my Realms just like that.

They were enslaved by Mulhorand at one point.... :rolleyes:

And when they got free through the auspices of their 'holy leader', they took to wearing the strange little beenie their saviour was fond of wearing...

They built their own kingdom in the Shaar, on the borders of southern Mulhorand and Unther.

Ummmm... is that a little 'too RW' for you?

Their chain of gabel shops is doing rather well, though... especially since they started carrying Luiren Cheese (extra creamy).

I was thinking of having some of the Tinker Gnomes come over from Lanatn, and attach some propellers to the beanies... :P

:rofl:
Nugget
09-12-07, 03:05 PM So in the Grand History of The Realms excert "Scourging of The Utter East" article, the King of Konighiem disovers serveral "Blood" forges capable of creating armies of golems. I am assuming that this is wotc's way of putting warforged in The 4E Realms. Thoughts? :thinks:
MarkusTay63
09-13-07, 03:10 AM Perhaps, but it really isn't a perfect fit. In the Utter east thread we've come up with the Imaskari fighting the ancient natives of the Utter east, and the Imaskar created warforged as an answer to defeating the Basal Golems.

Golems are near-mindless constructs, warforged are living self-aware beings. Also, Basal Golems (the things made by the Bloodforges) can be 'used up' to create magical effects, almost like Living Spels.

Thats why we figured that the fit wasn't exact, and brought in the Imaskari for the Warforged.

Either way, we will see them in 4e FR, along with changelings.
ElberethSilverleaf
09-15-07, 03:04 PM From what I heared 4E will be full of templates as those will be used by the DM to adjust the power level of encounters.

And another thing, Drow will apparently also become a core race. How much should we bet that their racial talents will include 2 weapon fighting abilities?

I take it you're being sarcastic. :)
But then didn't the idea of rangers being 2 handed fighters also start with Drizzt? (a character I initially loved but am now sick to death of...)
ElberethSilverleaf
09-15-07, 03:07 PM As far as core races for the Realms, why are they changing everything. There is nothing supporting warforged, Kalashtar or changlings as core races. Eberron yes but not Faerun or Greyhawk. I know there are warforged fanboys but leave them in Eberron where they belong, not the default setting or Faerun.
MarkusTay63
09-15-07, 10:40 PM "All rules are equal, but some are equaler then others"

gotta love Orwell.

I keep telling everyone, they already said way back at Gencon that they were moving away from the concept of 'FR canon', 'core canon', etc...

One set of rules - use what you like. That is why I'm embracing the 4e rules, even though I have trepeditions about the setting. I have always adapted whatever the hell I liked anyway, so that part is fine.

And a spell-point system has so many more possibilities for variables. :dancin:

I hope we eventually get Lionmen... I love Lionmen (not silly Wemics).
Lord Karsus
09-16-07, 06:01 PM "All rules are equal, but some are equaler then others"

gotta love Orwell.

-I utilize that concept every day at work...:)
18DELTA
09-18-07, 05:11 PM :D :dancin: orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc :dancin: :D They shall breed un checked( POWER BREED THAT IS)& sweep for and conquer the REALMS. While every body is being decimated by the spellplague. Grumsh is a genius. Grumsh is Ed:dancin: orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc :dancin: ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
creyzi4zb12 09-09-07, 01:45 AM	So 4e is now here. Did they make any changes on the PHB races? Namely the half-elf, half-orc or the dwarf?
Derren S. 09-09-07, 03:45 AM	4E is still months away so we don't know. There are speculations but that is all.
GothicDan 09-09-07, 10:32 AM	What sort of changes are you hoping for, creyzi?
Lord Karsus 09-09-07, 07:06 PM	What sort of changes are you hoping for, creyzi? -Orcs are the new creator race.
Dark Wizard 09-09-07, 07:36 PM	Gnomes killing the kobolds and taking all their stuff, or rather setting it on fire since theres not much for keeps.
Suin Bahhar 09-09-07, 08:59 PM	Do you think they will change the appearance of humans?
MerrikCale 09-09-07, 09:16 PM	someone has said gnomes will no longer be a "playable" race. Thats until the Races of Wild for $39.95 comes out
Lord Karsus 09-09-07, 11:39 PM	Do you think they will change the appearance of humans? -I hear they're all going to have equine tauric limbs...
Derren S. 09-10-07, 03:21 AM	It is rumored that a traditional PC race will not be in the first core books (they plan to release a set of core books every year). Also it looks like many setting specific or formerly LA races will become core races like Warforged, Tieflings and Eladrin. And of course the abilities and fluff of the races will change too. If and how this will effect the realms is not known.
Suin Bahhar 09-10-07, 07:00 AM	-I hear they're all going to have equine tauric limbs... I'll start apllying it to my roomates first, to start the retconning. Scalpel!...splatter...Sciscors!...ripp.. ..Drill!..rev.rev..splatter..Oops! Scalpel!....
Lord Karsus 09-10-07, 12:28 PM	I'll start apllying it to my roomates first, to start the retconning. Scalpel!...splatter...Sciscors!...ripp.. ..Drill!..rev.rev..splatter..Oops! Scalpel!.... -Heh. Imagine retcons in real life...:) It is rumored that a traditional PC race will not be in the first core books... -Now, is it me, or is that just silly?
GothicDan 09-10-07, 04:35 PM	Totally. They should have taken the Halfling out, if anything. They don't even know who they are. Gnomes are so much cooler.
SATA 09-10-07, 08:44 PM	Races of Faerun. Doesn't matter how many changes they made, from MY point of view, it doesn't matter, cuz not every race have 'room' in FR, that's why we have Races of Faerun and some other sources where some other races are implemented. So I guess that in 4e will stay the same, the FR crew will handle the situation, evaluate the changes and see what applies to FR and what not. At least is what I expect and hope.
MerrikCale 09-10-07, 09:10 PM	Totally. They should have taken the Halfling out, if anything. They don't even know who they are. Gnomes are so much cooler. Agreed. They better not make those lame-ass warforged core. I'd take raptorans and goliaths over them. i fail to understand why a particular setting can't have its own races
Dark Wizard 09-10-07, 10:41 PM	Gnomes may be gone until their triumphant return in the PHB II (possibly 5E depending on when the gnomes feel like getting around to it) where they reveal their disappearance was nothing but an illusionary world enchantment orchestrated by epic gnome magicians. At least that's the sort of weight the gnomes in my world throw around.
MerrikCale 09-10-07, 10:54 PM	Gnomes may be gone until their triumphant return in the PHB II (possibly 5E depending on when the gnomes feel like getting around to it) where they reveal their disappearance was nothing but an illusionary world enchantment orchestrated by epic gnome magicians. At least that's the sort of weight the gnomes in my world throw around. or perhaps they will return in May 2011 with the advent of 4.5e, or perhaps in May 2013 in 4.75e, or in May 2015 in 5e
GothicDan 09-10-07, 10:58 PM	I did a LOT with the gnomes in my world. I kept the tinkering/engineering aspect, and the illusions, and also made them the masters of shadow magic. They were also the traders, merchants, and inventors of the land. Every 3 years they'd have the Grand Carnival, in which they'd use all sorts of crazy machines to travel throughout the land and show off inventions, stimulate trade, and the like. Like the World's Fair. Countries that were almost completely closed to trade were open to the Gnomes and the Gnomes alone, for such events. The Gnomish king was a massive epic-level Illusionist/Shadow Mage type, with a special PrC that left them craft items and such out of Shadow. Now that I think about it, the Artificer class would have fit in perfectly with their society, had I thought of it. They also had one of the most powerful mercantlle/thieving guilds in the entire continent, spanning many countries and empires. While their power wasn't as consolidated and full-blown magical as my Elven empire, it was far more widespread, and they had more potential allies. I guess it was a bit of Eberron in my world. :)
MerrikCale 09-10-07, 11:01 PM	I guess it was a bit of Eberron in my world. :) traitor
GothicDan 09-10-07, 11:03 PM	It was before Eberron came out, though! Well, the basic concept was. I worked on that world for years before I got bored with it and trashed it.
MerrikCale 09-10-07, 11:07 PM	It was before Eberron came out, though! Well, the basic concept was. I worked on that world for years before I got bored with it and trashed it. you should publish it then. Did it have lame-ass warforges and those psionic people
GothicDan 09-10-07, 11:23 PM	Naw. Though one of the reasons I trashed it WAS because I didn't feel it was right to use standard races and just try to slap different cultures on them. And that's largely where my dislike of Eberron's "different for being different"'s sake comes from, even if, per se, I actually like the culture of the Valenar or whatnot. Since then I've been toying with a lot of setting/race ideas.
MarkusTay63 09-11-07, 01:20 AM	After reading that spoiler, Creyzi, you may just get your wish and we will wind up with Orcs. Obviously, from what was said there, half-orcs are going to be a LOT more common. Since everyone seems to breeding with Orcs in the future, they should just make it a template... Will we even have templates...? :uh-huh: I don't know about the rest of you, but a PH, DMG, MM, etc EVERY YEAR sounds a bit much... Oh, and complete books that need a 'II' are a bit of an oxymoron, eh?
Derren S. 09-11-07, 04:01 AM	From what I heared 4E will be full of templates as those will be used by the DM to adjust the power level of encounters. And another thing, Drow will apparently also become a core race. How much should we bet that their racial talents will include 2 weapon fighting abilities?
Lord Karsus 09-11-07, 10:13 AM	I kept the tinkering/engineering aspect, and the illusions, and also made them the masters of shadow magic. They were also the traders, merchants, and inventors of the land. Every 3 years they'd have the Grand Carnival, in which they'd use all sorts of crazy machines to travel throughout the land and show off inventions, stimulate trade, and the like. Like the World's Fair. Countries that were almost completely closed to trade were open to the Gnomes and the Gnomes alone, for such events. -Hey, hey. My setting has something very similar.
MarkusTay63 09-11-07, 01:55 PM	I heard 'Muppet Babies' were becoming a core race. :P Guys, you should play Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. You will find out the true depth of Gnomish madness... They enjoy 'genetic experiments' as well (think Dr.Moreau meets the 3rd Reich). They are consumate schemers, and try to control all of the countries through financial means by controlling trade routes and blowing up competitors. They have even enslaved the poor, stupid half-Ogres, and like to take human 'tropy wives'. An incredibly deep game BTW, and you can probably find it in a bargain-bin these days for $10. The graphics are dated, but the storylines make it worth it. There are even some fun quests you can do at the brothel.... ;) From what I heared 4E will be full of templates as those will be used by the DM to adjust the power level of encounters. And another thing, Drow will apparently also become a core race. How much should we bet that their racial talents will include 2 weapon fighting abilities?Since the Scout is being absorbed by the Ranger, I wouldn't doubt that some of the Ranger abilities might 'drift' elsewhere.
GothicDan 09-11-07, 02:22 PM	-Hey, hey. My setting has something very similar We should totally make a setting together.
MarkusTay63 09-11-07, 09:08 PM	Awwww... :( Can't I play too?
The Ubbergeek 09-11-07, 11:36 PM	you should publish it then. Did it have lame-ass warforges and those psionic people Childish a bit... Instead of saying that you don't like, you say 'lame ass'. Not even a fan of eberron as I am a fan of FR, but the Warforged are, to quote a certain cartoon, more than meet the eyes.... Not that I would make them core, but they should not be dismissed. The Kalashtar also are quite flavorfull, and closer to core. It may not belong to FR, it don't make them anymore stupid than rehashed tolkienesque fare. Guess you can't bring different ideas in D&D....
Dark Wizard 09-11-07, 11:48 PM	Drow probably will not get dual-wielding bonuses. If they wanted you to make Drizzt clones they will encourage you to play both a Drow AND a Ranger. It preserves the translation so fanboys can carry out their dream clone characters more accurately. We should be thankful alignment requirements are more or less waived in recent editions, else those would all be GOOD Drow Rangers running around. As for Eberron, my first disappointment with it was when the pulp flavor started to fray a few pages after the ECS stated it was supposed to be pulpy (and noirish as fans claim). All the cool catch phrases and marketing terms blended into a big meaningless mass and in the end the setting wasn't much of what it claimed to be. It became just another D&D setting after a supplement or two with a few gems buried here or there, no different than some of FR's more mediocre offerings.
The Ubbergeek 09-11-07, 11:53 PM	As for Eberron, my first disappointment with it was when the pulp flavor started to fray a few pages after the ECS stated it was supposed to be pulpy (and noirish as fans claim). All the cool catch phrases and marketing terms blended into a big meaningless mass and in the end the setting wasn't much of what it claimed to be. It became just another D&D setting after a supplement or two with a few gems buried here or there, no different than some of FR's more mediocre offerings. Not saying it's the best - FR is for me, always will be - but it have also it,s qualities among it's defaults. And it will NOT kill FR, or smother away classic ones; it was aimed more at peoples who don't like the tolkien-inspired, classical fantasy world, and who dislike the failings of those worlds. As you said, it is a setting like the others. No better, no worse. A member if the familly.
Lord Karsus 09-12-07, 11:54 AM	They enjoy 'genetic experiments' as well (think Dr.Moreau meets the 3rd Reich). They are consumate schemers, and try to control all of the countries through financial means by controlling trade routes and blowing up competitors. They have even enslaved the poor, stupid half-Ogres, and like to take human 'tropy wives'. -Hmm...Big noses, schemers, trying to control the world via financial means, trophy wives...Who are we talking about here? ;) :D
Valgard 09-12-07, 12:20 PM	Childish a bit... Instead of saying that you don't like, you say 'lame ass'. Not even a fan of eberron as I am a fan of FR, but the Warforged are, to quote a certain cartoon, more than meet the eyes.... Not that I would make them core, but they should not be dismissed. The Kalashtar also are quite flavorfull, and closer to core. It may not belong to FR, it don't make them anymore stupid than rehashed tolkienesque fare. Guess you can't bring different ideas in D&D.... First, if I were to put down a race from the PH, I think it would be the half-orc -- an underpowered race and it makes you think that every human town has women 'seduced' (I'm trying to be sarcastic here) by orcs. Second, I'm not very fan of importing races with great background to core D&D, and that includes specific races from other campaigns. But if I would, the races that Ubbergeek mentions -- the warforged and the kalashtar -- are exactly the races that I wouldn't include in core... kalashtar are bound to the quori and the region of dreams (... too specific...) and the warforged need the soulforges and similar things (...this too...). The changeling and shifter are much more generalist (human descendands of doppelganger and lycanthropes respectively). Third, the gnomes are included in the coolest races of core, much better than half-human breeds and halflings!
MarkusTay63 09-12-07, 12:54 PM	-Hmm...Big noses, schemers, trying to control the world via financial means, trophy wives...Who are we talking about here? ;) :DNot to offend, LK, but ummmmm.... I've seen the connection as well, and since I liked that take on the gnomes so much, I introduced a large group of them to my Realms just like that. They were enslaved by Mulhorand at one point.... :rolleyes: And when they got free through the auspices of their 'holy leader', they took to wearing the strange little beenie their saviour was fond of wearing... They built their own kingdom in the Shaar, on the borders of southern Mulhorand and Unther. Ummmm... is that a little 'too RW' for you? Their chain of gabel shops is doing rather well, though... especially since they started carrying Luiren Cheese (extra creamy). I was thinking of having some of the Tinker Gnomes come over from Lantan, and attach some propellers to the beanies... :P
Lord Karsus 09-12-07, 01:34 PM	Not to offend, LK, but ummmmm.... I've seen the connection as well, and since I liked that take on the gnomes so much, I introduced a large group of them to my Realms just like that. They were enslaved by Mulhorand at one point.... :rolleyes: And when they got free through the auspices of their 'holy leader', they took to wearing the strange little beenie their saviour was fond of wearing... They built their own kingdom in the Shaar, on the borders of southern Mulhorand and Unther. Ummmm... is that a little 'too RW' for you? Their chain of gabel shops is doing rather well, though... especially since they started carrying Luiren Cheese (extra creamy). I was thinking of having some of the Tinker Gnomes come over from Lanatn, and attach some propellers to the beanies... :P :rofl:
Nugget 09-12-07, 03:05 PM	So in the Grand History of The Realms excert "Scourging of The Utter East" article, the King of Konighiem disovers serveral "Blood" forges capable of creating armies of golems. I am assuming that this is wotc's way of putting warforged in The 4E Realms. Thoughts? :thinks:
MarkusTay63 09-13-07, 03:10 AM	Perhaps, but it really isn't a perfect fit. In the Utter east thread we've come up with the Imaskari fighting the ancient natives of the Utter east, and the Imaskar created warforged as an answer to defeating the Basal Golems. Golems are near-mindless constructs, warforged are living self-aware beings. Also, Basal Golems (the things made by the Bloodforges) can be 'used up' to create magical effects, almost like Living Spels. Thats why we figured that the fit wasn't exact, and brought in the Imaskari for the Warforged. Either way, we will see them in 4e FR, along with changelings.
ElberethSilverleaf 09-15-07, 03:04 PM	From what I heared 4E will be full of templates as those will be used by the DM to adjust the power level of encounters. And another thing, Drow will apparently also become a core race. How much should we bet that their racial talents will include 2 weapon fighting abilities? I take it you're being sarcastic. :) But then didn't the idea of rangers being 2 handed fighters also start with Drizzt? (a character I initially loved but am now sick to death of...)
ElberethSilverleaf 09-15-07, 03:07 PM	As far as core races for the Realms, why are they changing everything. There is nothing supporting warforged, Kalashtar or changlings as core races. Eberron yes but not Faerun or Greyhawk. I know there are warforged fanboys but leave them in Eberron where they belong, not the default setting or Faerun.
MarkusTay63 09-15-07, 10:40 PM	"All rules are equal, but some are equaler then others" gotta love Orwell. I keep telling everyone, they already said way back at Gencon that they were moving away from the concept of 'FR canon', 'core canon', etc... One set of rules - use what you like. That is why I'm embracing the 4e rules, even though I have trepeditions about the setting. I have always adapted whatever the hell I liked anyway, so that part is fine. And a spell-point system has so many more possibilities for variables. :dancin: I hope we eventually get Lionmen... I love Lionmen (not silly Wemics).
Lord Karsus 09-16-07, 06:01 PM	"All rules are equal, but some are equaler then others" gotta love Orwell. -I utilize that concept every day at work...:)
18DELTA 09-18-07, 05:11 PM	:D :dancin: orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc :dancin: :D They shall breed un checked( POWER BREED THAT IS)& sweep for and conquer the REALMS. While every body is being decimated by the spellplague. Grumsh is a genius. Grumsh is Ed:dancin: orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc :dancin: ;)