Dragonscales [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonscales [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zandilar
03-28-07, 03:54 AM Heya,

Edit: The topic for this post should read Spellscales, not Dragonscales! Silly me!

Forgive me if this has been asked before... but does anyone know or have any suggestions as to how/where this race (from Races of the Dragon) fits into the Forgotten Realms?

Dragons are pretty important and quite widespread in the Realms. There are plenty of them living amongst the other races... So it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that such a race* might eventually spring up somewhere in the Realms... My major trouble with the race is their ever-changing nature, particularly with regard to deities, which would lead to an awful lot of false/faithless Spellscales.

* For those that don't know, Spellscales are kind of a draconic equivelant to tieflings/aasimar in that they are decended from dragons, though a few to many generations removed, and can be born to any sorcerer or sorcerously inclined humanoid, no matter who the parents are (ie: two humans could have a spellscale child if one of them is a sorcerer). Spellscales are also a bit like half-elves in that they breed true with each other (two spellscales will always have a spellscale child).
Lord Karsus
03-28-07, 09:14 AM -Well, they seem very smiliar to Half-Elves, so I'd say that they'd be integrated into other societies, and have no specific society for themselves, for the most part. In more "educated" societies, a Dragonskin might be raised normally by his/her family, perhaps even exploited somewhat because of his/her special nature. In less "educated" cultures, I could see children like this being killed at or around birth, because they are "devil children", or something to that effect.

-Hope that helps a little.
EytanBernstein
03-28-07, 06:24 PM There are two new races in Races of the Dragon - dragonborn and spellscales. I assume you're talking about the latter, infants with dragon-like features who are born to sorcerous parents?
Zandilar
03-28-07, 08:46 PM Heya,

There are two new races in Races of the Dragon - dragonborn and spellscales. I assume you're talking about the latter, infants with dragon-like features who are born to sorcerous parents?

Yes, they're exactly the ones... How I managed to get the name wrong, I have no clue, I'd just been reading the entry prior to posting too! :embarrass Oh well, mistake made and corrected. :)

The thing about them that doesn't seem to fit is how they have no specific faith that they stick to. I know that in order to have an afterlife that doesn't involve becoming another brick in the Wall (of the Faithless), an individual living on Abeir-Toril needs to have been faithful to some deity... The Spellscales hold the greatest and most abiding reverence for magic itself rather than any deity (though they do tend to worship the draconic deities when they have any faith at all, but it never lasts - not even for clerics)... Given that magic itself only works though Mystra (ie: The Weave (lets keep this simple, lets not get into the Shadow Weave!)), would that mean in the Realms they would venerate her? Or would their faith in magic automatically be accepted by Mystra and thus they don't need to actually worship Her specifically to be concidered faithful? Or would their ever changing fair-weather-faith mean they're doomed to being Faithless?

Anyway, the book, Races of the Dragon, gives a "Spellscales in Eberron" but no "Spellscales in Faerun" (in fact, there's no "in Faerun" section for anything in Races of the Dragon, though Dragons of Faerun mentions Dragonborn, but not Spellscales)... I'm concidering playing one in the next campaign (if I'm not roped into DMing for the first time in over 10 years), and I was just trying to see where they fit, if they do.

@Lord Karsus - Spellscales (I keep going to type Dragonscales now, darn it!) are dragonblood, but I don't think they're dragonkin, per se. They're very different to just about any race I've ever seen for Dungeons and Dragons... In fact, I'd say this was a race made to play using Alignment Dice! (Maybe an exaggeration, but I expect that most Spellscales don't end up the same alignment they began, and that they change alignments several times during the course of their life - it's kind of hard to explain if you haven't seen the entry in Races of the Dragon)... I don't think they'd fit in too well with half-elves, though the Spellscales certainly see them as kindred spirits.

I am begining to think they don't fit at all - at least not without some kind of change to the way they treat faith in the gods.
Derren S.
03-29-07, 02:28 AM Dragons are pretty important and quite widespread in the Realms.

Actually they are not. While there are a lot of dragons in the realms they have next to no influence. That is a general FR problem which ignores nearly every race not in the PHB despite their intellect and power.

That means that there is no real place in the realms where Spellscales would fit. That the FR is so much wizard themed and does not work for sorcerers doesn't help either.
Lord Karsus
03-29-07, 10:03 AM Actually they are not. While there are a lot of dragons in the realms they have next to no influence. That is a general FR problem which ignores nearly every race not in the PHB despite their intellect and power.

-Not true. Dragons, infact, have had a major role in the Realms (In the past), and in the present (Year of the Rogue Dragons). Of course, they are often treated like midless beasts, but still, they are getting airtime...

@Lord Karsus - Spellscales (I keep going to type Dragonscales now, darn it!) are dragonblood, but I don't think they're dragonkin, per se. They're very different to just about any race I've ever seen for Dungeons and Dragons... In fact, I'd say this was a race made to play using Alignment Dice! (Maybe an exaggeration, but I expect that most Spellscales don't end up the same alignment they began, and that they change alignments several times during the course of their life - it's kind of hard to explain if you haven't seen the entry in Races of the Dragon)... I don't think they'd fit in too well with half-elves, though the Spellscales certainly see them as kindred spirits.

-Well, I didn't say that either group would like the other group, but I am sure they'd be able to identify with each other. As for religion...Again, it depends on how the individual character was brought up. It's just as likely that a Spellcale brought up within a Monestary of Ilmater become a (somewhat) devout Ilmateri that a Spellscale brought up on a farm becomes a (somewhat) devout Chauntean.
Derren S.
03-29-07, 12:37 PM -Not true. Dragons, infact, have had a major role in the Realms (In the past), and in the present (Year of the Rogue Dragons). Of course, they are often treated like midless beasts, but still, they are getting airtime...

They had an important role, yes (till they were outsmarted by some elves), but now dragons are nothing. The year of the rogue dragon caused a bit destruction, but nothing serious and many dragons died (without much resistence). Thats not important to me. The only dragon with a bit of real influence is Tchezzar and considering that he is a deity walking on the face of Toril the extend of his influence is pretty small.

A other problem with spellscales is that FR uses a modified draconic pantheon so you have to change soem blood quickenings for them.
Lord Karsus
03-29-07, 01:15 PM They had an important role, yes (till they were outsmarted by some elves), but now dragons are nothing. The year of the rogue dragon caused a bit destruction, but nothing serious and many dragons died (without much resistence). Thats not important to me. The only dragon with a bit of real influence is Tchezzar and considering that he is a deity walking on the face of Toril the extend of his influence is pretty small.

-Well, the Time of Dragons is over, what can I tell you? I do agree, though, that Dragons are treated as "stupid" too often.
Zandilar
03-30-07, 05:04 AM Heya,

-Well, I didn't say that either group would like the other group, but I am sure they'd be able to identify with each other. As for religion...Again, it depends on how the individual character was brought up. It's just as likely that a Spellcale brought up within a Monestary of Ilmater become a (somewhat) devout Ilmateri that a Spellscale brought up on a farm becomes a (somewhat) devout Chauntean.

Hmm... Well that's not how they work. Spellscales are literally unable to understand long term devotion to a single idea. They're explorers and experimenters, their race exemplifies the ideas of flightiness freespiritedness, and capriciousness... To quote Races of the Dragon (page 31), "The exclusive, long-term commitment that most deities and churches demand of followers is difficult for the changable spellscales to meet. Aside from the aforementioned bursts of peity, few spellscales consider themselves ardent followers of any one deity, dragon or otherwise."

This is the case even when the spellscale was raised by non-spellscale parents. Spellscales are the sort to get out of home and wander as soon as they think they're old enough (which can be as young as 13 years old)!
Lord Karsus
03-30-07, 10:04 AM -Ah, I see. So, basically, they are Dragon versions of Kender! :yuck:
Derren S.
03-30-07, 10:13 AM Not really. Spellscales are not kleptomanic nor do they have a short attention span. They are just chaotic (imo spellscales are the real elves).
Also they don't do stupid things because they are curious and they know fear. Basically they behave very normally most of the time but their behavior changes every day (or multiple times per day).

I like the "code" spellscales live.
"Living without excuse". That means that a spellscale will never excuse itself for what it has done. If they want to do something they do it and when they don't want to do it they don't do it. But they never do something they don't want to do and likewise never excuse themself for what they have done.
Lord Karsus
03-30-07, 10:17 AM -Alright, so they have Draconian ADD, no inhibitions, and a little Multiple Personality Disorder thrown in there.
Derren S.
03-30-07, 10:19 AM They do not have ADD and they do have inhibitions. They are just chaotic but not stupid/suicidal.
As I said before, they behave like propper elves would (not those lawful FR elves).
Red_Wizard
03-30-07, 10:24 AM Have you read any of the sourcebook "Dragons of Faerun". There are many, many political, behind the scenes dragons there. One that comes to mind owns three shops in Waterdeep, continuously avoids Khelban, and has many major roles in the going ons of day to day life in the port city.

I don't see them as dumb, or underplayed. I see them as the more effectual examples of power, that many organizations should take lessons from.
The_Shaman
03-30-07, 10:40 AM They had an important role, yes (till they were outsmarted by some elves), but now dragons are nothing. The year of the rogue dragon caused a bit destruction, but nothing serious and many dragons died (without much resistence). Thats not important to me. The only dragon with a bit of real influence is Tchezzar and considering that he is a deity walking on the face of Toril the extend of his influence is pretty small.

I wouldn't be so sure. Most folk on the Realms don't know how much influence dragons have, as dragons usually bicker and plot against other dragons. Hence, they are seldom that interested in humans and their ilk, but imo can be quite dangerous if they get thein mind to it. Sure, perhaps they don't influence empires, but very few groups in the Realms do so - i.e. how much influence can you say the Harpers have? If they ever get their minds to it, the likes of Klauth, Balagos, Valamaradace or Malaergoth could easily muster a lot of influence. Look at the Soft Claws, for example - a great wyrm has much more resources and probably no less contacts, if he'd ever bother with "ruling" such pitiful creatures like men, dwarves or elves.
Zandilar
03-31-07, 03:39 AM Heya,

They do not have ADD and they do have inhibitions. They are just chaotic but not stupid/suicidal.
As I said before, they behave like propper elves would (not those lawful FR elves).

You pretty much nailed them, Derren S. However, I wouldn't say they had inhibitions. They might experiment with having them, but in the end, they're very much an "anything goes" kind of creature. They might hold an inhibition one day, or even for a few years, but the next day or year or however long they feel like, it will change... For example, one might decide to be a vegetarian and not eat meat, but come back in a year's time and you'll find their diet is completely carnivourous.

About the only thing about Spellscales that doesn't seem unstable is their devotion to family. (That isn't to say they won't cheat on their wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, but their relationships to their blood relatives exemplifies the phrase "blood is thicker than water".)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zandilar 03-28-07, 03:54 AM	Heya, Edit: The topic for this post should read Spellscales, not Dragonscales! Silly me! Forgive me if this has been asked before... but does anyone know or have any suggestions as to how/where this race (from Races of the Dragon) fits into the Forgotten Realms? Dragons are pretty important and quite widespread in the Realms. There are plenty of them living amongst the other races... So it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that such a race* might eventually spring up somewhere in the Realms... My major trouble with the race is their ever-changing nature, particularly with regard to deities, which would lead to an awful lot of false/faithless Spellscales. * For those that don't know, Spellscales are kind of a draconic equivelant to tieflings/aasimar in that they are decended from dragons, though a few to many generations removed, and can be born to any sorcerer or sorcerously inclined humanoid, no matter who the parents are (ie: two humans could have a spellscale child if one of them is a sorcerer). Spellscales are also a bit like half-elves in that they breed true with each other (two spellscales will always have a spellscale child).
Lord Karsus 03-28-07, 09:14 AM	-Well, they seem very smiliar to Half-Elves, so I'd say that they'd be integrated into other societies, and have no specific society for themselves, for the most part. In more "educated" societies, a Dragonskin might be raised normally by his/her family, perhaps even exploited somewhat because of his/her special nature. In less "educated" cultures, I could see children like this being killed at or around birth, because they are "devil children", or something to that effect. -Hope that helps a little.
EytanBernstein 03-28-07, 06:24 PM	There are two new races in Races of the Dragon - dragonborn and spellscales. I assume you're talking about the latter, infants with dragon-like features who are born to sorcerous parents?
Zandilar 03-28-07, 08:46 PM	Heya, There are two new races in Races of the Dragon - dragonborn and spellscales. I assume you're talking about the latter, infants with dragon-like features who are born to sorcerous parents? Yes, they're exactly the ones... How I managed to get the name wrong, I have no clue, I'd just been reading the entry prior to posting too! :embarrass Oh well, mistake made and corrected. :) The thing about them that doesn't seem to fit is how they have no specific faith that they stick to. I know that in order to have an afterlife that doesn't involve becoming another brick in the Wall (of the Faithless), an individual living on Abeir-Toril needs to have been faithful to some deity... The Spellscales hold the greatest and most abiding reverence for magic itself rather than any deity (though they do tend to worship the draconic deities when they have any faith at all, but it never lasts - not even for clerics)... Given that magic itself only works though Mystra (ie: The Weave (lets keep this simple, lets not get into the Shadow Weave!)), would that mean in the Realms they would venerate her? Or would their faith in magic automatically be accepted by Mystra and thus they don't need to actually worship Her specifically to be concidered faithful? Or would their ever changing fair-weather-faith mean they're doomed to being Faithless? Anyway, the book, Races of the Dragon, gives a "Spellscales in Eberron" but no "Spellscales in Faerun" (in fact, there's no "in Faerun" section for anything in Races of the Dragon, though Dragons of Faerun mentions Dragonborn, but not Spellscales)... I'm concidering playing one in the next campaign (if I'm not roped into DMing for the first time in over 10 years), and I was just trying to see where they fit, if they do. @Lord Karsus - Spellscales (I keep going to type Dragonscales now, darn it!) are dragonblood, but I don't think they're dragonkin, per se. They're very different to just about any race I've ever seen for Dungeons and Dragons... In fact, I'd say this was a race made to play using Alignment Dice! (Maybe an exaggeration, but I expect that most Spellscales don't end up the same alignment they began, and that they change alignments several times during the course of their life - it's kind of hard to explain if you haven't seen the entry in Races of the Dragon)... I don't think they'd fit in too well with half-elves, though the Spellscales certainly see them as kindred spirits. I am begining to think they don't fit at all - at least not without some kind of change to the way they treat faith in the gods.
Derren S. 03-29-07, 02:28 AM	Dragons are pretty important and quite widespread in the Realms. Actually they are not. While there are a lot of dragons in the realms they have next to no influence. That is a general FR problem which ignores nearly every race not in the PHB despite their intellect and power. That means that there is no real place in the realms where Spellscales would fit. That the FR is so much wizard themed and does not work for sorcerers doesn't help either.
Lord Karsus 03-29-07, 10:03 AM	Actually they are not. While there are a lot of dragons in the realms they have next to no influence. That is a general FR problem which ignores nearly every race not in the PHB despite their intellect and power. -Not true. Dragons, infact, have had a major role in the Realms (In the past), and in the present (Year of the Rogue Dragons). Of course, they are often treated like midless beasts, but still, they are getting airtime... @Lord Karsus - Spellscales (I keep going to type Dragonscales now, darn it!) are dragonblood, but I don't think they're dragonkin, per se. They're very different to just about any race I've ever seen for Dungeons and Dragons... In fact, I'd say this was a race made to play using Alignment Dice! (Maybe an exaggeration, but I expect that most Spellscales don't end up the same alignment they began, and that they change alignments several times during the course of their life - it's kind of hard to explain if you haven't seen the entry in Races of the Dragon)... I don't think they'd fit in too well with half-elves, though the Spellscales certainly see them as kindred spirits. -Well, I didn't say that either group would like the other group, but I am sure they'd be able to identify with each other. As for religion...Again, it depends on how the individual character was brought up. It's just as likely that a Spellcale brought up within a Monestary of Ilmater become a (somewhat) devout Ilmateri that a Spellscale brought up on a farm becomes a (somewhat) devout Chauntean.
Derren S. 03-29-07, 12:37 PM	-Not true. Dragons, infact, have had a major role in the Realms (In the past), and in the present (Year of the Rogue Dragons). Of course, they are often treated like midless beasts, but still, they are getting airtime... They had an important role, yes (till they were outsmarted by some elves), but now dragons are nothing. The year of the rogue dragon caused a bit destruction, but nothing serious and many dragons died (without much resistence). Thats not important to me. The only dragon with a bit of real influence is Tchezzar and considering that he is a deity walking on the face of Toril the extend of his influence is pretty small. A other problem with spellscales is that FR uses a modified draconic pantheon so you have to change soem blood quickenings for them.
Lord Karsus 03-29-07, 01:15 PM	They had an important role, yes (till they were outsmarted by some elves), but now dragons are nothing. The year of the rogue dragon caused a bit destruction, but nothing serious and many dragons died (without much resistence). Thats not important to me. The only dragon with a bit of real influence is Tchezzar and considering that he is a deity walking on the face of Toril the extend of his influence is pretty small. -Well, the Time of Dragons is over, what can I tell you? I do agree, though, that Dragons are treated as "stupid" too often.
Zandilar 03-30-07, 05:04 AM	Heya, -Well, I didn't say that either group would like the other group, but I am sure they'd be able to identify with each other. As for religion...Again, it depends on how the individual character was brought up. It's just as likely that a Spellcale brought up within a Monestary of Ilmater become a (somewhat) devout Ilmateri that a Spellscale brought up on a farm becomes a (somewhat) devout Chauntean. Hmm... Well that's not how they work. Spellscales are literally unable to understand long term devotion to a single idea. They're explorers and experimenters, their race exemplifies the ideas of flightiness freespiritedness, and capriciousness... To quote Races of the Dragon (page 31), "The exclusive, long-term commitment that most deities and churches demand of followers is difficult for the changable spellscales to meet. Aside from the aforementioned bursts of peity, few spellscales consider themselves ardent followers of any one deity, dragon or otherwise." This is the case even when the spellscale was raised by non-spellscale parents. Spellscales are the sort to get out of home and wander as soon as they think they're old enough (which can be as young as 13 years old)!
Lord Karsus 03-30-07, 10:04 AM	-Ah, I see. So, basically, they are Dragon versions of Kender! :yuck:
Derren S. 03-30-07, 10:13 AM	Not really. Spellscales are not kleptomanic nor do they have a short attention span. They are just chaotic (imo spellscales are the real elves). Also they don't do stupid things because they are curious and they know fear. Basically they behave very normally most of the time but their behavior changes every day (or multiple times per day). I like the "code" spellscales live. "Living without excuse". That means that a spellscale will never excuse itself for what it has done. If they want to do something they do it and when they don't want to do it they don't do it. But they never do something they don't want to do and likewise never excuse themself for what they have done.
Lord Karsus 03-30-07, 10:17 AM	-Alright, so they have Draconian ADD, no inhibitions, and a little Multiple Personality Disorder thrown in there.
Derren S. 03-30-07, 10:19 AM	They do not have ADD and they do have inhibitions. They are just chaotic but not stupid/suicidal. As I said before, they behave like propper elves would (not those lawful FR elves).
Red_Wizard 03-30-07, 10:24 AM	Have you read any of the sourcebook "Dragons of Faerun". There are many, many political, behind the scenes dragons there. One that comes to mind owns three shops in Waterdeep, continuously avoids Khelban, and has many major roles in the going ons of day to day life in the port city. I don't see them as dumb, or underplayed. I see them as the more effectual examples of power, that many organizations should take lessons from.
The_Shaman 03-30-07, 10:40 AM	They had an important role, yes (till they were outsmarted by some elves), but now dragons are nothing. The year of the rogue dragon caused a bit destruction, but nothing serious and many dragons died (without much resistence). Thats not important to me. The only dragon with a bit of real influence is Tchezzar and considering that he is a deity walking on the face of Toril the extend of his influence is pretty small. I wouldn't be so sure. Most folk on the Realms don't know how much influence dragons have, as dragons usually bicker and plot against other dragons. Hence, they are seldom that interested in humans and their ilk, but imo can be quite dangerous if they get thein mind to it. Sure, perhaps they don't influence empires, but very few groups in the Realms do so - i.e. how much influence can you say the Harpers have? If they ever get their minds to it, the likes of Klauth, Balagos, Valamaradace or Malaergoth could easily muster a lot of influence. Look at the Soft Claws, for example - a great wyrm has much more resources and probably no less contacts, if he'd ever bother with "ruling" such pitiful creatures like men, dwarves or elves.
Zandilar 03-31-07, 03:39 AM	Heya, They do not have ADD and they do have inhibitions. They are just chaotic but not stupid/suicidal. As I said before, they behave like propper elves would (not those lawful FR elves). You pretty much nailed them, Derren S. However, I wouldn't say they had inhibitions. They might experiment with having them, but in the end, they're very much an "anything goes" kind of creature. They might hold an inhibition one day, or even for a few years, but the next day or year or however long they feel like, it will change... For example, one might decide to be a vegetarian and not eat meat, but come back in a year's time and you'll find their diet is completely carnivourous. About the only thing about Spellscales that doesn't seem unstable is their devotion to family. (That isn't to say they won't cheat on their wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, but their relationships to their blood relatives exemplifies the phrase "blood is thicker than water".)